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Most of the main Green policies are terrifying watch

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    (Original post by redferry)
    I have actually read the majority of the articles that book was based on you do realise?

    It's based on good data and rigorous analysis.
    Should have been more critical then. It isn't good data, they cherry pick the countries involved so it suits their hypothesis (i.e. leaving out Singapore and Hong Kong). They also don't include data on things that show the opposite correlation (mental illness, divorce, crime that isn't homicide etc, racist bigotry).

    The analysis is poor in my opinion. There is little reason to conclude that inequality makes societies worse from the data given as most of the time, there is no correlation bar for the outliers of Scandinavia. It's also jumping the gun a bit to look at Scandinavia and say that their successes are entirely due to inequality when they are some of the freest market economies in the world.

    It's your opinion that the Spirit Level is true or good and one that you are obviously allowed to hold. But it is not true that 100% of Science and Sociology is behind the Spirit Level and it isn't right that you are trying to influence the opinions of others with this lie.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Should have been more critical then. It isn't good data, they cherry pick the countries involved so it suits their hypothesis (i.e. leaving out Singapore and Hong Kong). They also don't include data on things that show the opposite correlation (mental illness, divorce, crime that isn't homicide etc, racist bigotry).

    The analysis is poor in my opinion. There is little reason to conclude that inequality makes societies worse from the data given as most of the time, there is no correlation bar for the outliers of Scandinavia. It's also jumping the gun a bit to look at Scandinavia and say that their successes are entirely due to inequality when they are some of the freest market economies in the world.

    It's your opinion that the Spirit Level is true or good and one that you are obviously allowed to hold. But it is not true that 100% of Science and Sociology is behind the Spirit Level and it isn't right that you are trying to influence the opinions of others with this lie.
    You do realise it's perfectly standard and correct practice to remove anomalies such as weird city states (Hong King, Singaproe, Luxembourg etc) ?

    Well clearly not all of it is right but literally the same could be said of any book. Even Pickettys capitalism in the 21st century had some analysis flaws.

    Go ahead, eat up the awful arguments used by free market fundamentalists to undermine the findings. I'm not the uncritical one here.
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    They don't really know what the real world is, do they? Rubbish utopian ideas, for ill-informed hipsters. So many votes will be wasted on them.
    And to think, all those votes could have gone on Labour instead.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    You do realise it's perfectly standard and correct practice to remove anomalies such as weird city states (Hong King, Singaproe, Luxembourg etc) ?

    Well clearly not all of it is right but literally the same could be said of any book. Even Pickettys capitalism in the 21st century had some analysis flaws.

    Go ahead, eat up the awful arguments used by free market fundamentalists to undermine the findings. I'm not the uncritical one here.
    Singapore isn't a city state. Neither is Luxembourg. The title of the book is about "societies". Therefore I see no reason to not consider Hong Kong because it has good stats on inequality and is certainly a society. But just because it doesn't fit the "trend", the authors leave it out.

    Very little of it is "right". If you think these graphs prove that inequality causes social problems and makes society worse then you are very mistaken.

    It isn't only free market fundamentalists that are critical of this work and its data. There are a number of left-wing sociologists who just think it is bad social science.

    http://oxfordsociology.blogspot.co.u...wilkinson.html
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    The idea that you can prove the hypothesis that "inequality makes societies worse and equality makes them better" through the use of some graphs is absurd. It's far too strong a conclusion and ignores cultural differences.

    I could easily make a graph showing that more equal societies means more mental illness, divorce and crime (besides homicide) but I wouldn't do that because its a bad simplistic argument.
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    Explains a lot.

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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    A lot of very good points that I think I failed to articulate properly earlier
    Why thank you
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    (Original post by midnightice)
    Explains a lot.

    So did Cameron and Obama.
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    (Original post by redferry)



    I don't see why you are having a go at me about this, you do realise I'm a Labour supporter? Like I go out canvassing and ****? The greens green policy is an absolute crock of ****e and the reason I could never vote for them.
    Why is their green policy a crock of ****e in your opinion?
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    Good article in the Spectator.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-week/...to-socialists/
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    (Original post by Clip)
    Saving the planet is something you can only do if you have the money to do it. Historically, it's only the rich countries that can do it. The developing countries of any political colouring couldn't give two hoots. People will only care about the environment if they are otherwise "safe" from more immediate concerns and it's no good telling starving people that the key to their salvation would be worldwide sustainable agriculture. They want food and shelter right now, and to hell with your green politics.

    The Green Party seem to be sticking to an exceptionally philosophical "big picture" type of politics, almost like VI Form socialists, and implying unilateral action, assuming the acquiesence of everyone else on Earth. This is utterly mad. You would see the UK turn into Greece within a few years and Rwanda within a decade.
    But we have to save the planet one way or another, or we have to move away from the planet and go somewhere else. Not within our lifetimes, granted, but if we carry on as we are now then it's either leave or die. Even if we are the first country to embrace this idea, then that is a step forward and it will lead to others doing the same.

    Besides, there are a lot of poor countries that have already been adversely affected by climate change. Many island nations are facing the threat of disappearing due to rising sea levels. Like it or not this sort of thing will become more and more of an 'immediate concern' if we don't act to slow it down.

    I'm aware that the Green party's policies are idealistic and 'philosophical' as you put it, but it's undeniable that more and more people want that. Just look at how many people have joined them over the past few months. We can always start out as idealists and moderate ourselves with practicalities as and when sticking to ideals becomes unfeasible.

    And one of their policies is to increase the amount of international aid, so that ought to help the 'starving people' out a little.

    Investing more in renewable energy, which the Greens would undoubtedly do, will also lead to developments in that field which should benefit people everywhere as the technology will become cheaper over time.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    Why is their green policy a crock of ****e in your opinion?
    No GM, no nuclear and abolish zoos just for starters.

    They also oppose stem cell research all forms of stem cell research and animal testing, just in case they weren't anti science enough.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    No GM, no nuclear and abolish zoos just for starters.

    They also oppose stem cell research all forms of stem cell research and animal testing, just in case they weren't anti science enough.
    lol. What do they intend to do with the animals? I hope to God its something sensible like sell them off, not "return them to their natural habitat" :rolleyes:
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    The Green Party have their hearts in the right places but it goes without saying that their heads aren't working. Just check out the interview with Andrew Neil held with Natalie Bennett, none of her policies she could actually defend on air, mostly because they were indefensible. Some of the obvious contradictions, not to mention the £280bn cost of her universal income scheme (of which she couldn't explain how to fund at all).

    Having hardly any border controls while granting everyone a national income of £72 a week.

    Letting anyone join Al-Qaeda / ISIS as a political party (all in the name of free-speech, that's what makes it ok!) while also cutting the army and security services to a minute fraction of what they are now, and also scrapping Trident so our country would become more indefensible.

    If anyone thinks the Tories are bad imagine what the Greens in power would look like, most likely a hell of a lot more crazy & clearly incompetent with foreign and financial matters....

    Bennett also kept dodging the question! She's no better than any other politician and until people see the farce the Green Party are the scarier our country will become.




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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    lol. What do they intend to do with the animals? I hope to God its something sensible like sell them off, not "return them to their natural habitat" :rolleyes:
    Probably. They're bloody nutters -_-
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    The only solution is a rational, labour right government.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    No GM, no nuclear and abolish zoos just for starters.

    They also oppose stem cell research all forms of stem cell research and animal testing, just in case they weren't anti science enough.
    Animal testing is inhumane, GM we really need to survive (although we shouldn't patent DNA), nuclear we need as a stave over until fully green, and zoos are kinda nessesary for conservation. Oh and stem cell research is vital as well
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    (Original post by Aph)
    Animal testing is inhumane, GM we really need to survive (although we shouldn't patent DNA), nuclear we need as a stave over until fully green, and zoos are kinda nessesary for conservation. Oh and stem cell research is vital as well
    You do realise most animal testing is just running a rat around a maze/feeding it food and measuring doubly labelled water in its urine? Hardly inhumane. On top of that for things like vaccines it can't be trialed on humans.

    Animal testing is clearly wrong for things like make-up. For pet food, essential medicines and behavioral studies, however, it is essential.
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    (Original post by KingStannis)
    The only solution is a rational, labour right government.
    I always thought you were a Tory for some reason.
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    (Original post by redferry)
    I always thought you were a Tory for some reason.
    haha! WHy? Do my posts generally give out a Toryish aura? lol.
 
 
 
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