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Is it time Europe bans Islam & muslim immigration? watch

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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Doesn't bring any to British people though.
    I'm not going to get into that topic, but it suffices to say that, even if this were true, it's irrelevant. The interests of every single human being matter equally: immigration benefits immigrants, and that's enough to justify the immigration.

    (Original post by billydisco)
    So there are no problems with terrorism because more car accidents occur?

    God it must be sad to cling to a failed dream like you do and make-up deluded crap like above to justify it....
    You're misrepresenting my argument: I'm stating that the benefits of immigration, when we consider the interests of all humans, far outweigh the potential downsides (atrocities such as this occurring). There are also alternative ways to reduce the risk of terrorist attacks occurring, including tackling socioeconomic deprivation and looking at the consequences of our own foreign policies.

    Similarly, the benefits of driving far outweigh the downsides (thousands of people killed every year). There are also alternative ways to reduce the risk of car accidents occurring. We don't ban cars because car accidents lead to loads of deaths every year for precisely this reason, and we shouldn't be "banning Muslim immigration" simply because a miniscule minority of Muslims committed a terrorist attack last night, for precisely the same reason: the benefits of immigration outweigh the downsides.
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    According to Agence France-Presse (AFP), two men connected with the attacks were registered as migrants with Greek authorities. There you have it, liberal lefties, these are your so-called ‘refugees’…
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    when the bombing took place in beirut just 2 days b4 paris no one was bothered cuz muslims were the ones killed...now that its paris thats bombed everyone's freaking out. being a muslim ...this makes me feel sick. For the ****ing hundredth time islam is one thing and terrorism is another and just because am a muslim that doesnt make me a terrorist. If u read about islam, u'll know that its against the killing of innocent souls. I pray for everyone who died in the bombing whether its in paris or beirut regardless of what their religion, race or gender is.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Nope,they just want to find a safe haven
    Not sure what it is that you're disagreeing with? Everything I stated is factually correct, so far as I'm aware :dontknow:

    (Original post by abubakar_2002)
    Radical Muslims make up less than 1% of muslims as a whole
    How are you defining 'radical', and why should these radicals be our only concern? :holmes:

    (Original post by imaanr)
    White people have such high double standards
    White people aren't the only group in the world who have a problem with Islamism, and please stop bringing race into it:mute:

    a passport can really withstand a bomb blast, can't they(?))
    Do you know how non-incendiary improvised shrapnel/jacket explosives are constructed/work? (I'm guessing not)

    only 15% of terror attacks in the past few years have been down by so called 'Muslims'
    Source?

    Lord knows how you guys will survive without our oil...
    Not aware of any trade deals that were contingent upon mass immigration, and we could do with a greener economy tbh (not that we buy all that much oil from Syria/Iraq anymore)

    (Original post by imaanr)
    'Our' meaning the Muslim countries supplying oil.
    Just one of many reasons we will never buy this 'British Muslim' BS. Most of y'all primarily identify with your land/religion/culture/customs/language/heritage/history/values/norms of origin, and only loosely/superficially identify with ours, even when you're given full citizenship/right to remain, receive state support, use our public services, send your children to the same schools etc etc

    (Original post by imaanr)
    this is my country too as much as it is yours
    (Original post by imaanr)
    If it wasn't for us, you guys would still be eating with your poo-infected hands
    Self-evidently it is not I'm afraid, your own language is testament to that

    (Original post by imaanr)
    There are many non-Muslims who don't drink alcohol at all. What's wrong with that?
    We don't go round preaching to/looking down our noses at/avoiding drinkers, or kicking up a fuss about serving alcohol, in the same way

    (Original post by Hasan_Ahmed)
    No, I don't have a connection to sylhet apart from by food and a couple of words
    You have your grandparents (hence bolded text) – it was a little tongue in cheek, but the point remains, your country/background/culture runs in your blood, whether you chose to buy into that or not, it’s something that resonates with many peoples, the world over

    some of the assumptions you made towards Islamic doctrine are only true for some interpretations
    For sure, but did you see this: 75% of Muslims believe there’s only one legitimate interpretation of the Koran | Source

    Anyone who follows the majority schools of islamic thought subsribed to in Europe to the T -will- be a terrorist
    Essentially true, unfortunately, so far as I understand it, although you could of course say similar of certain elements of other religious doctrines

    The solution to the problems we face, I propose, is an encouragement - perhaps even compulsion - of Muslims to reconsider their historical narrative of the era after study
    With all due respect, that is a ridiculous, if well meaning proposition. No Muslim is going to accept anyone else, especially not a Westerner, telling them to ‘go back to your books and have a rethink’. Even if they did, you would end up with a multitude of interpretations, including some just as bad, if not worse, than those that extremists currently cling to!

    Muslims should be encouraged to educate themselves in their religion
    For sure, but by other Muslims, and over time – religious evolution/revolution takes time/involves a heck of a lot of strife. The ‘Muslim reformation’ may be almost upon us but it will not be over in a flash and will come at great cost – a cost that the West is not prepared to bear, or have any part in, yet here we are, getting sucked into this sectarian ****storm sweeping the Middle East..

    This kind of religious re-education and religious revivalism will, I guarantee usher in a new era not of personal-secularist progressivism, but a kind of progressivism with a religious mandate
    Perhaps in the year 2115, when the dust has settled. Thanks for the (somewhat conspiratorial) history of the (distortion of the) Koran lesson

    Honestly, I think we should create a forum asking whether Christianity should be banned in all Muslim countries
    Christianity is already effectively off-limits in many Muslim countries, what planet have you been living on since the glorious ‘Arab Spring’?

    (Original post by Evening)
    Of course everyone is too scared to offend anyone nowadays, so there will be very little in the way of discussion concerning the very real problem of religious extremism
    Not everyone

    (Original post by ah07)
    If you reject them whilst they stand by you, where do you expect them to turn?
    True, but the problem is that few of them stand by us (check my post linked above) and that because of this, and such heinous acts, there will be too many in society who distrust/reject them for the way we enlightened few behave to make a difference

    Banning Islam will be a violation of human rights and also oppression
    Truth is, fewer and fewer Westerners care any more - the whole notion of 'rights' has been warped/stretched all recognition is at is. Fact is, we are tired of being threatened, abused, and attacked in our own lands. We shouldn't have to stand for it, and don't have to stand for it. People are starting to realise this, and starting to wonder why we have stood for it for so long. This is why I genuinely fear for the Muslim communities of the West now

    (Original post by viddy9)
    If it was that easy to turn them into an enemy population, then we would see a death rate far higher than we've seen so far
    In the right (wrong) conditions it's all too easy to turn neighbour against neighbour and instigate all kinds of ugliness. Believe it. All that is necessary is for people to feel sufficiently threatened/hopeless and adopt a dehumanised 'them and us' attitude (see Nazi Germany/Rwanda for reference)

    There is no division of Britain or Europe into two or more tribes precariously balanced on the brink of civil war
    If you do not believe race riots, atrocities, and possibly war, are a real and present danger in Europe then my friend you need to wake up and smell the coffee

    Immigration brings immense benefits to the vast, vast majority of Muslim individuals
    Muslim immigrants do indeed often do very nicely out of emigrating to the West – no-one would argue with that :rolleyes:

    a miniscule proportion of Muslims engaged in an atrocity
    Tip of the iceburg, unfortunately, and hardly an isolated incident either. The real question is, how many more murders of soldiers, journalists, revellers are we going to see on our streets in the West before the population in this or that (right leaning) European country decides enough’s enough? My guess is not many and that it won’t be long before more Anders Breivik type nutters pop up to launch bloody protests/outrages of their own

    you're still far, far more likely to die in a car accident than you are in a terrorist attack
    Oh, well that’s ok then

    the same is the case with allowing Muslims and indeed all humans to move freely between borders
    Few people outside the London metro ivory tower/ideologue and corporatist elites actually buy that (anymore) when it comes to (un-mandated) mass inter-civilisational immigration, unfortunately – particularly where people of disparate culture/ethnicity/language/values/norms are concerned

    (Original post by ah07)
    Why would they need to convert from a religion that is called peace?
    It’s called submission,* and your excerpts from its doctrine are just as deflective/selective. You can’t have your cake and eat it I’m afraid (see above re: 75%)

    If race and religion come into question whenever someone does something bad, it's pure racism
    Oh no, we’re racists? Better stop criticising Islam :innocent:

    Islamophobia is no better than homophobia
    Last time I checked homosexuals weren’t throwing people off the tops of tall buildings because they disagreed with they disapproved of this or that element of their lifestyle. Fear of Islam/Muslims is entirely rational – if you don’t fear Islamists even a little bit by now, as a ‘kafir’, after the multiple outrages they have committed against us, in the name of their religion, then you need to get your head examined

    (Original post by KingKoala)
    The best we can hope for is that we are able to keep our security measures tight to decrease the threat of horrific incidents like yesterday, and hope that our military forces are able to weaken the Islamic state
    Not going to be enough. They are a determined and utterly ruthless enemy. The only things that will defeat such an enemy are: A) Overwhelming force and an (ongoing) moratorium on immigration from the Muslim world + expulsion of anyone with any possible affiliation with ISIS; B) Adopting equally ruthless tactics. Neither will fly with much of the population, let alone our liberal leaders, right now (although that may change if we see further atrocities and the emergence of reciprocal vigilante terrorism)

    Also we must sort out the Syrian crisis giving safety to those who need it whilst filtering out the evil terrorists
    Mission impossible, unfortunately

    (Original post by Ammat)
    IS are NOT muslims
    Sure. Let me guess, they’re Zionists, right? :facepalm2:

    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    isn't there supposed to be some sort of filter in your brain that prevents people from saying such pathetic things?
    Thankfully some of us have managed to remove the liberal white-wash filter – noted in my previous post – from our brains

    (Original post by Life_peer)
    two men connected with the attacks were registered as migrants with Greek authorities
    Hate to say I told you so. It’s time that wishful liberal ideologues woke up..

    Spoiler:
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    We have granted asylum to over 4,000 Syrian refugees, it turns out, although I have little doubt that few indigenous Brits want any more Muslim immigrants from anywhere in the world. Let us continue to aid Syrians, but let us do that primarily in/around Syria, and secondarily only accept peoples who are best suited to settling here sustainably/do not pose a security threat

    (Original post by areej218)
    For the ****ing hundredth time islam is one thing and terrorism is another
    Does it not seem a little odd to you that this is 'the ****ing hundredth time'? Have you not spotted a bit of a pattern by now?
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    According to Agence France-Presse (AFP), two men connected with the attacks were registered as migrants with Greek authorities. There you have it, liberal lefties, these are your so-called ‘refugees’…
    And many more to come
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    (Original post by Fidus Achates)
    Yes they are. Allah told them in the Jihadist verses of the Quran to commit horrific crimes like this. If anything, in the warped eyes of Allah, they are better Muslims than those who don't do such things. The fact is these extremists are doing exactly what Allah has asked. They are living by Sharia Law, they are enforcing taxes upon the non believers and they are killing infidels who they see as a threat. This is exactly what Allah calls for in the Quran.
    am sorryy...but where did u get this crap from ? Thats not what Allah said in Quraan. I bet u dont even know how Quraan looks like. My God is ur God n he's evedyone's God whether u believe it or not... he wont say one thing in christianity for example and say another in islam. im a muslim who has been raised in an arab country and has studied islam for as long as i can remember and am certain that killing innocent souls=going to hell. so dont pretend like u know everything here.
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Thankfully some of us have managed to remove the liberal white-wash filter – noted in my previous post – from our brains
    I actually loled reading that response. But seriously, if you wont accept us standing against these attacks, then where should we stand? Islamic terrorism makes up a minute percentage of Muslims. Muslims move to the West to run away from this sort of terror.
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    (Original post by Fidus Achates)
    Yes they are. Allah told them in the Jihadist verses of the Quran to commit horrific crimes like this. If anything, in the warped eyes of Allah, they are better Muslims than those who don't do such things. The fact is these extremists are doing exactly what Allah has asked. They are living by Sharia Law, they are enforcing taxes upon the non believers and they are killing infidels who they see as a threat. This is exactly what Allah calls for in the Quran.
    Allah has not told any one to commit horrific attacks like this.. Most of those kind of attacks r / were made everyday on many muslims, in mosques as well or an everyday basis.. U cant say something by just googling it.. do u think that Allah has also called those terrorists( so called muslims ) to kill muslims as well.. Seems like lack of Islamic knowledge has taken over u..
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    (Original post by areej218)
    am sorryy...but where did u get this crap from ? Thats not what Allah said in Quraan. I bet u dont even know how Quraan looks like. My God is ur God n he's evedyone's God whether u believe it or not... he wont say one thing in christianity for example and say another in islam. im a muslim who has been raised in an arab country and has studied islam for as long as i can remember and am certain that killing innocent souls=going to hell. so dont pretend like u know everything here.
    "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
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    (Original post by viddy9)
    If it was that easy to turn them into an enemy population, then we would see a death rate far higher than we've seen so far. Threads like this make it easier, though.



    No such outcome has occurred. There is no division of Britain or Europe into two or more tribes precariously balanced on the brink of civil war.
    You have said:

    Firstly, if this immoral and horrific attack was committed by ISIS, then this is precisely what they want to occur: they want to stir up division and recruit more and more people to their hateful ideology. How do they do that? They want more countries to attack them, first of all, but they want the millions of peaceful Muslims living in the Western world to become alienated.
    You say you believe IS's strategy is to bring in the Western muslim population on their side. You imply that you believe that this is likely to work unless the non-muslim population of the West responds to muslim attacks on them in a manner that is conciliatory to muslims. I am afraid you cannot wave this threat to shut down discussion on the ideological origins of these attacks on the one hand and on the other hand claim that muslim immigration is benign. At the very least it involves major negative trade-offs, that might or might not be counterbalanced by benefits of muslim immigration. If Western muslims could not be moved to IS's side then it would not be dangerous to discuss the Islamic origins of IS.

    Immigration brings immense benefits to the vast, vast majority of Muslim individuals. Banning immigration of these individuals because a miniscule proportion of Muslims engaged in an atrocity would be akin to banning cars because they regularly result in death; indeed, you're still far, far more likely to die in a car accident than you are in a terrorist attack, yet we don't see any proposals to ban cars. Why? Because the benefits of having cars outweigh the risks, and the same is the case with allowing Muslims and indeed all humans to move freely between borders.
    We do not choose not to ban cars because of the harm it would cause to cars. Immigration of muslims benefits muslims for sure. Does it benefit Britain and the British? If muslim immigrants were of an extraordinarily high quality then there might be some question of trading off social cohesion against tax revenue, or something like that. Mostly, though, muslim immigrants are of low quality. Muslim immigrants underperform Indian and Chinese (and the native population) in education, employment, criminality, practically every measure of social value. We can get better elsewhere, to the limit of any reasonably tolerable level of immigration, and not have to worry about the social cohesion problems that are unique to muslims.
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    (Original post by Muhammad Shehzar)
    Allah has not told any one to commit horrific attacks like this.. Most of those kind of attacks r / were made everyday on many muslims, in mosques as well or an everyday basis.. U cant say something by just googling it.. do u think that Allah has also called those terrorists( so called muslims ) to kill muslims as well.. Seems like lack of Islamic knowledge has taken over u..
    Allah called for the deaths of infidels and non believers. These terrorists killed non believers so were doing exactly as he stated in the Quran in the Jihadist verses. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. My knowledge of Islam is extremely high, not that its any of your concern. I think if you actually listened to someone who has experienced such first hand, like Maajid Nawaz, you'd educate yourself greatly on the subject.
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    tbh its not for me to care if they experience this violence in syria every day, not my fault they indoctrinate their children and caused this isis stuff, im from a majority atheist country where we know religion is a disease and we dont want it in our country. my country has already helped too much and has way too many refugees for its population, and they are the ones complaining about the weather and starting riots / burning cars. i dont want them here, if their god is so amazing why doesnt he save them all.
    • Welcome Squad
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    Nah, I think it's time you abandon that brush you use to brush over people you assume are the same.
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    (Original post by areej218)
    am sorryy...but where did u get this crap from ? Thats not what Allah said in Quraan. I bet u dont even know how Quraan looks like. My God is ur God n he's evedyone's God whether u believe it or not... he wont say one thing in christianity for example and say another in islam. im a muslim who has been raised in an arab country and has studied islam for as long as i can remember and am certain that killing innocent souls=going to hell. so dont pretend like u know everything here.
    No need of a sorry there.. yupp.. u r right the god is same for everybody.. whether black or white, tall or short, boy or girl.. They just dont realize it..
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    (Original post by Ashtar)
    "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
    and where does it say here that muslims can kill innocents freely? Plus Quraan is 604 pages with 30 different parts in it? u give me the aya's number and we'll do this.
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    (Original post by Faisalshamallakh)
    if you wont accept us standing against these attacks
    Not sure where you're getting that from

    where should we stand
    In Muslim lands, protesting against atrocities committed in your name

    Islamic terrorism makes up a minute percentage of Muslims
    See my prior posts in this thread for a good overview of the problems faced/posed by the Muslim commity (larger percentages, providing a hotbed for everything from antisocial behaviour through to heinous atrocities). Engage with the truth

    Muslims move to the West to run away from this sort of terror
    ..and bring it with them. Lose/lose
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    (Original post by areej218)
    and where does it say here that muslims can kill innocents freely? Plus Quraan is 604 pages with 30 different parts in it? u give me the aya's number and we'll do this.
    (8.12)
    (9.123)
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    I challenge anyone out there to provide me with any references from the Qur'an that promote the killing of innocent lives!

    Islam's teaching regarding war are clearer than for any other religion in that it strictly prohibits the following:

    * Don't cut a tree
    * Don't kill children
    * Don't kill old people
    * Don't destroy a temple or church
    * Don't destroy any buildings
    * Don't kill those who surrender
    * Don't kill those who run away
    * Don't kill a woman
    * Don't kill a sick person
    * Don't kill a priest or monk
    * Don't enforce Islam

    What Isis are doing has as much to do with Islam as KKK with Christianity or Hitler with Germans.

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    (Original post by Fidus Achates)
    Allah called for the deaths of infidels and non believers. These terrorists killed non believers so were doing exactly as he stated in the Quran in the Jihadist verses. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. My knowledge of Islam is extremely high, not that its any of your concern. I think if you actually listened to someone who has experienced such first hand, like Maajid Nawaz, you'd educate yourself greatly on the subject.
    No, Allah does not suggested anybody to kill non-believers & infidles. Those terroroist attacks are made everyday in a muslim country like Pakistan.. no-one just take cares of it cz it happens in a muslim country. now if it just happens in a non-muslim country the whole of the countries & their people shouts out on it.. why is that so?? Has Allah also told muslims to kill the other muslims as well.. what u said just dos not seem to have a valid point in it..
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    No, that's actually an insane and unworkable suggestion.
 
 
 
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