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Palestine or Israel Watch

  • View Poll Results: Palestine or Israel ?
    Palestine
    136
    67.00%
    Israel
    55
    27.09%
    I don't know
    12
    5.91%

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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I didn't mention any particular party or did I specifically mention Hamas as being the ones in power first?
    You didn't, but my first reply to you clearly referred to them, and you called that an assumption; I didn't say anything about Palestinians more generally. For reference, here's our conversation (square brackets added retrospectively):

    (Original post by queen-bee)
    If the tables were turned,do you believe Palestinians would treat Israel as badly as they are doing to the Palestinians?
    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Their leadership [i.e. Hamas] certainly would, yeah.
    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Assumptions assumptions
    (Original post by Hydeman)
    It's a pretty educated speculation, I'd say.
    (Original post by queen-bee)
    I never even asked you, habibi. We don't have be answer to that question so in the meantime it's just assumptions because Israel is doing the oppressing
    That is why o said assumptions assumptions because I thought you had gone on to just assume all Arabs are antisemites.
    I didn't assume that. You probably misread my first reply, because I was clearly referring to the leadership, not Palestinians more generally (see conversation above).

    Hamas may be leading Gaza but what if they were no longer in power? What if there was a new leadership? We already know Israel is doing the oppressing but so is Hamas.
    That would be a step in the right direction.

    I didn't mention Hamas,again,you choose to jump to the conclusion that I was talking about them.
    You weren't in your reply to Foo (and I don't pretend that you were), but then I replied saying that their leadership would, and from then on the reasonable assumption was that you were referring to them when you said 'assumptions assumptions.'

    I didn't give you any specifics. I could've been talking about a free thinking and tolerant leader for the Palestinians for all you know
    You could, but generally speaking 'the leadership' means the party currently in power.

    and actually I've never denied that Hamas were a terrorist organisation. If you look throughout this thread,before you've even quoted me tonight you'll see
    Never said you did. :mmm:
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    (Original post by garfeeled)
    See that would be a brilliant situation. The extremes on both sides losing their voice and a middle and accepting leader on both sides. The issue is that would require either the extremes on both sides actually becoming less common or for them to give up trying to influence things. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. The ultra zionists are always going to believe they have some right to the land even (though in my experience it's more especially) if it means trampling on Arabs whilst the Islamists will always believe their system of governance is divine and will always be offended by the mere existance of non Muslim ( especially Jewish) state.
    The current demographics of Israel makes the electoral victory of a moderate party very unlikely. The "ultra Zionists" are now in majority...
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    (Original post by Josb)
    The current demographics of Israel makes the electoral victory of a moderate party very unlikely. The "ultra Zionists" are now in majority...
    They never needed to be in the majority. As long as they were loud and active enough then it would hold enough influence to hold things back. Them being in the majority just makes it harder to reverse.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    So maybe a two state solution is the only real solution to the problem?
    As I said earlier in the thread, a two state solution is now impossible as there are 300,000 colonists in East Jerusalem and 300,000 more in West Bank settlements. These colonists are all armed and they built their homes like bunkers. They will not leave.

    The only chance for Palestinians to "free" the West Bank from Jewish settlements would be to "exchange" it for East Jerusalem. Israeli have always wanted to have the whole of Jerusalem and most of the biggest colonies are located there. Moreover, Israel has officially annexed it since 1980; they will not reconsider this decision.

    Then, the Israeli government could take action to remove the settlements in the West Bank.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    As I said earlier in the thread, a two state solution is now impossible as there are 300,000 colonists in East Jerusalem and 300,000 more in West Bank settlements. These colonists are all armed and they built their homes like bunkers. They will not leave.

    The only chance for Palestinians to "free" the West Bank from Jewish settlements would be to "exchange" it for East Jerusalem. Israeli have always wanted to have the whole of Jerusalem and most of the biggest colonies are located there. Moreover, Israel has officially annexed it since 1980; they will not reconsider this decision.

    Then, the Israeli government could take action to remove the settlements in the West Bank.
    I blame the French. :slap:
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I blame the French. :slap:
    Why?
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Why?
    Because I felt like using the :slap: emoji and I was reading your post when it hit me. :proud:
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Because I felt like using the :slap: emoji and I was reading your post when it hit me. :proud:
    Mean guy. :mob:
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    (Original post by AhmedMA99)
    Palestine or Israel ?
    Israel, no one gives a shite about Palestine. Saudi and Egypt can take the Palestinians as refugees, instead of doing nothing
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    You didn't, but my first reply to you clearly referred to them, and you called that an assumption; I didn't say anything about Palestinians more generally. For reference, here's our conversation (square brackets added retrospectively):













    I didn't assume that. You probably misread my first reply, because I was clearly referring to the leadership, not Palestinians more generally (see conversation above).



    That would be a step in the right direction.



    You weren't in your reply to Foo (and I don't pretend that you were), but then I replied saying that their leadership would, and from then on the reasonable assumption was that you were referring to them when you said 'assumptions assumptions.'



    You could, but generally speaking 'the leadership' means the party currently in power.



    Never said you did. :mmm:
    You didn't give any specifics either,so as a precautionary lesson,it's best not to ever assume things, always ask for specifics in advance

    May god be with you
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    You didn't give any specifics either,so as a precautionary lesson,it's best not to ever assume things, always ask for specifics in advance
    I did give specifics. I said 'their leadership', instead of 'Palestinians.' Any assumptions I've made follow the normal rules of conversation. You said 'assumptions assumptions' in response to me saying 'their leadership would, yeah', so it follows from the normal rules of conversation that you were saying that 'their leadership would, yeah', is an assumption, not 'the Palestinians would' (which was never said).

    You find it so hard to admit to mistakes, queen-bee.

    May god be with you
    Thanks, but I don't need any gods. :hand:
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    (Original post by theunitedGOAT)
    Israel, no one gives a shite about Palestine. Saudi and Egypt can take the Palestinians as refugees, instead of doing nothing
    This
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    (Original post by Josb)
    As I said earlier in the thread, a two state solution is now impossible as there are 300,000 colonists in East Jerusalem and 300,000 more in West Bank settlements. These colonists are all armed and they built their homes like bunkers. They will not leave.

    The only chance for Palestinians to "free" the West Bank from Jewish settlements would be to "exchange" it for East Jerusalem. Israeli have always wanted to have the whole of Jerusalem and most of the biggest colonies are located there. Moreover, Israel has officially annexed it since 1980; they will not reconsider this decision.

    Then, the Israeli government could take action to remove the settlements in the West Bank.
    This is an interesting idea. Although the mass movement of people may have similar results to the partition of India and Pakistan. But that said, I don't see any other option other than a two state solution.

    Whilst it sounds rather sloppy and ill-planned, couldn't a border be drawn around Jewish settlements, effectively creating Jewish or Palestinian exclaves as part of the drawing up of the borders? That would prevent having to force people to resettle in other parts of the country. For example, West Berlin managed to survive despitate being surrounded by East Germany. Azerbaijan has the Nakhchivan exclave and Russia has the Kaliningrad exclave.
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)

    Whilst it sounds rather sloppy and ill-planned, couldn't a border be drawn around Jewish settlements, effectively creating Jewish or Palestinian exclaves as part of the drawing up of the borders? That would prevent having to force people to resettle in other parts of the country. For example, West Berlin managed to survive despite being surrounded by East Germany. Azerbaijan has the Nakhchivan exclave and Russia has the Kaliningrad exclave.
    The enclaves are very small, a few kms², even West-Berlin wasn't that small. There is also a terrible water problem in the area. Palestinians won't let water flowing to these enclaves.

    Avigdor Lieberman actually wanted to redraw the border to include Jewish settlements in Israel and give in exchange Israeli Arab areas to Palestine.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieberman_Plan

    The main problem is that Israeli Arabs don't want to be transferred...

    Drawing borders in very densely populated areas is not easy.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Because it's not only Muslim Arabs who are suffering under Israel but also Christian Arabs too,wake up!

    Why do you have to bring Christianity into everything? I chose to side with Palestine because of what I see is happening to the Palestinians,just because I'm a Christian should I be blind to the injustices of certain people who are living under occupation both Christian and Muslim Arabs! My religion shouldn't come into it. And actually just thinking about Syria and other Arab countries going to war with Israel in the past ,I will always be a supporter of Palestinian solidarity just like all our fellow country men and women. Deal with it :rolleyes:
    A better answer is Christians are Israel, so the state of Israel must be the "Tribe of Judah".

    Ephraim is the British Commonwealth

    Manasseh is the USA.

    http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/ephraim.html
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    I'm a decorated student of International Relations and Strategic Studies, so yes, I know a thing or two about arguably the most noteworthy/divisive inter-civilisational conflict of the modern era :borat:

    You need to re-read what I've written. Nothing in what I've said suggests that I am pro-Israeli. I expect a higher degree of intellectualism from you, homie this **** is basic

    Quote me where I said that?

    Also expect a higher degree of piety. Not impressed
    No offense but degree or not your argument isn't too great. While I agree there is a lot of settlement on land that did not previously belong to them, we are talking about since the foundation of the United Nations. To hold Americans in the sixteenth century in accordance with International Law developed in the mid twentieth century is absurd. The Israelis had such laws to follow, the Americans didn't, arguably such land is justified on the grounds of defense after the Six Days War but it does not surprise me in the slightest (considering that many of these people are still alive) that people are angry about displacement.
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    Palestine. How can you support kicking people out of their homes and killing children playing on the beach? Between 8 July and 27 August 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians were killed versus 2,104 Palestinians - including 1,462 civilians, of whom 495 were children and 253 women.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I did give specifics. I said 'their leadership', instead of 'Palestinians.' Any assumptions I've made follow the normal rules of conversation. You said 'assumptions assumptions' in response to me saying 'their leadership would, yeah', so it follows from the normal rules of conversation that you were saying that 'their leadership would, yeah', is an assumption, not 'the Palestinians would' (which was never said).

    You find it so hard to admit to mistakes, queen-bee.



    Thanks, but I don't need any gods. :hand:
    Khalas,the only mistake was that you weren't specific enough or maybe I wasn't
    Apology accepted anyway

    If you say so
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Khalas,the only mistake was that you weren't specific enough or maybe I wasn't
    Apology accepted anyway
    I didn't apologise.

    But whatever.
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    Israel, give me 1 good thing Palestine has contributed to humanity? (protip: you cant).
 
 
 
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