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    (Original post by Algren)
    You decided to ignore the other 75% of my comment which was questioning the relevance of your graph and comments, and instead harped on the 25% which you could reply with "so what", which is exactly what I was saying about your point. Are you a politician by any chance?And sending me a big poster of simply a person stood on a diving board on a page of black reading "leap into the dark", ISN'T fear tactics I suppose?

    Its simply logic, uncontrolled immigration is unsustainable, fill a glass of water, then keep the tap running and see what happens. In the EU, we cannot control immigration, therefore it is uncontrollable, therefore we are susceptible to a sudden influx caused by any number of natural or human caused factors, look back at you glass.

    Personally, immigration isn't my chief concern anyway, just responding to your immigration "facts" which are irrelevant and bias.
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    (Original post by aidenj)
    Yeah, so in the real world you cannot just do an "eeny meeny miny moe" on the unemployment list and then sign them up for a nursing degree!

    There is a shortage of British people wanting to do a nursing degree ( why that is, is a topic for another thread!) and who are the ones wanting to be nurses in the NHS? Migrants. So to say that we are gonna force train 20k people to be nurses, as a substitute for migrants who actually want to care for people in our NHS, is a joke!

    (Original post by NinjaOtter)
    Mentioning that you have a first class degree doesn't add to your point, unless you state what degree you have. Obviously a degree in dance would limit your choices etc.
    Plus the government does technically train us. It gives us loans to go to uni to get trained, and they give you a choice of what you want to learn to do. They cant be faulted because people either dont want to go to uni to train as nurses, or because people want to study History etc. instead of Nursing. The government gives everyone opportunities to train, but people squander those opportunities.
    Also out of those 1.7 million, how many of them are smart enough or capable enough to be a nurse? And how many of those people WANT to nurses?
    You could easily tell the unemployment office folks who see every unemployed person once every two weeks that we have a shortage of nurses, thus lookout from within the 1.7M for anyone you think has the acumen for this role, if so approach them about the possibility of training for it. There would be people willing and people smart enough, the issues however are that A) nursing is seen as a poor doctor, and not for men, two awful stereotypes that I believe the government needs to work to correct. B) you now need a degree (which is a very recent change, weirdly coinciding with the rising shortfall of nurses) with pretty steep entry requirements if i remember right. So anyone older fancying this career must first raise 30k to get the degree. Importing is just easier than correcting stereotyping and then promoting people picking up the degree, the government doesn't realise that to fork out the cost of putting a few unemployed through this degree would in the long term save them money.

    My degree is irrelevant, I wasn't trying to talk about me, just illustrating a point. If you're interested, I have 4 A-levels in Maths, chemistry, physics and biology, and a biology degree. You're right in some of what you say, they give us opportunities, however I believe the government could do more to promote the degrees that we are short of skilled workers for. However this would be a long term solution, whereas our government prefer the quick fix of immigration. I am from a very upper class family, but have grown up around working class, and honestly knowing a good few people struggling to pay their way, I do believe a lot would jump on the chance of training to do a steady job in demand which provides a semi decent wage.

    We've got off topic here... I've already said immigration isn't my chief concern, but people keep bringing it back, so maybe it is just everyone else's chief concern. I guess my original point was, leaving the EU will not leave us with a "brain drain" as one man mentioned, merely a "skill drain", which could be easily corrected through some encouragement on the governments part for people to train in these professions, as we have the people available to do the jobs. Failing that, if we need to import workers we still can, immigration won't be stopped, we will simply be able to only import the skills we need.
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    (Original post by Algren)
    Trust me, as a holder of a first class degree from a top 10 uni but no job, there is no "brain drain". We are as smart as anyone. We are however unskilled, as the government is not training enough people in what is needed (ie. nurses, programmers) preferring to import talent. Not a brain drain, but a skill drain, and a skill drain will be good as it will force the government to train our population in skills, decreasing unemployment.

    How people can say we need foreigners for their skills is beyond me. We just need to train the 1.7M unemployed in our own country in applicable skills. So, we have no nurses, we need 20k more, ok, pick 20k of the 1.7M(!!) without a job and frickin train them to be nurses. You improve 2 problems. I don't understand how this is so hard to grasp :,)
    This will not happen as it will cost money to train people. You just have too look at the NHS, there are so many applicants for nursing degrees but only a few handful places. The end result is, the NHS becomes short staffed, the government imports nurses from the Philippines and the people who wanted to become nurses lose out as there aren't enough university places for them.
    The government always thinks short term not long term it's no wonder we have so many unskilled people in the UK.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    This will not happen as it will cost money to train people. You just have too look at the NHS, there are so many applicants for nursing degrees but only a few handful places. The end result is, the NHS becomes short staffed, the government imports nurses from the Philippines and the people who wanted to become nurses lose out as there aren't enough university places for them.
    The government always thinks short term not long term it's no wonder we have so many unskilled people in the UK.
    No it wouldn't happen, so I'm not sure what relevance it has :,) I got a bit sidetracked from my original point. However one can hope (or dream) that a decrease in immigration causes the government to look internally and train the skills we need, decreasing immigration, unemployment, and skill shortages, just another possible pro of Brexit. But then this would make so much sense, it definitely wouldn't happen.
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    (Original post by Algren)
    No it wouldn't happen, so I'm not sure what relevance it has :,) I got a bit sidetracked from my original point. However one can hope (or dream) that a decrease in immigration causes the government to look internally and train the skills we need, decreasing immigration, unemployment, and skill shortages, just another possible pro of Brexit. But then this would make so much sense, it definitely wouldn't happen.
    Regardless of whether we train or not the sheer fact we would have money back from not having to inject into the EU budget or payout benefits to EU citizens is surely a huge benefit to the UK. We could spend that on anything, most likely reducing the deficit
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    This will not happen as it will cost money to train people. You just have too look at the NHS, there are so many applicants for nursing degrees but only a few handful places. The end result is, the NHS becomes short staffed, the government imports nurses from the Philippines and the people who wanted to become nurses lose out as there aren't enough university places for them.
    The government always thinks short term not long term it's no wonder we have so many unskilled people in the UK.

    (Original post by Algren)
    Trust me, as a holder of a first class degree from a top 10 uni but no job, there is no "brain drain". We are as smart as anyone. We are however unskilled, as the government is not training enough people in what is needed (ie. nurses, programmers) preferring to import talent. Not a brain drain, but a skill drain, and a skill drain will be good as it will force the government to train our population in skills, decreasing unemployment.

    How people can say we need foreigners for their skills is beyond me. We just need to train the 1.7M unemployed in our own country in applicable skills. So, we have no nurses, we need 20k more, ok, pick 20k of the 1.7M(!!) without a job and frickin train them to be nurses. You improve 2 problems. I don't understand how this is so hard to grasp :,)
    Training Nurses and Docs costs a significant amount of money. Training them in this country is already heavily subsidized.

    No Government is just going to train another 20,000 when it costs at least 10's of thousands a year to train one and they can get another one that cost nothing to train for a cheaper wage.

    Also, not every moron can be a nurse and etc. If you are unemployed and can't get a job in Greggs, why would you think they are capable of looking after multiple sick people?

    This is just common sense.
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    (Original post by Axion)
    Again these are opinions. Under efficient market hypothesis, the value of a stock is equal to it's expected long-term cash flows, subject to a discount rate. The market is directly telling you, at the moment, that the impact of Brexit is to, ceteris paribus, reduce long-term cash flows of major UK companies.

    There is zero evidence that we will recover a stronger economy. That is simply an appeal to 'patriotism'.
    Holy ****... is this a person actually using economics instead of political rhetoric for once in this entire debate? Thanks fam.
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    (Original post by moggis)
    I LOVE Poles and I don't mind immigration. However I have come to realise how utterly unfair the wide scale immigration has been to the poorest people in our society.
    s..
    Well, the Government doesn't really care about the poor.

    If Poles left and wages were higher then goods would be more expensive and that would disproportionately affect the poor anyway. Capitalism will always destroy those at the bottom.
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    (Original post by Algren)
    You could easily tell the unemployment office folks who see every unemployed person once every two weeks that we have a shortage of nurses, thus lookout from within the 1.7M for anyone you think has the acumen for this role, if so approach them about the possibility of training for it. There would be people willing and people smart enough, the issues however are that A) nursing is seen as a poor doctor, and not for men, two awful stereotypes that I believe the government needs to work to correct. B) you now need a degree (which is a very recent change, weirdly coinciding with the rising shortfall of nurses) with pretty steep entry requirements if i remember right. So anyone older fancying this career must first raise 30k to get the degree. Importing is just easier than correcting stereotyping and then promoting people picking up the degree, the government doesn't realise that to fork out the cost of putting a few unemployed through this degree would in the long term save them money.

    My degree is irrelevant, I wasn't trying to talk about me, just illustrating a point. If you're interested, I have 4 A-levels in Maths, chemistry, physics and biology, and a biology degree. You're right in some of what you say, they give us opportunities, however I believe the government could do more to promote the degrees that we are short of skilled workers for. However this would be a long term solution, whereas our government prefer the quick fix of immigration. I am from a very upper class family, but have grown up around working class, and honestly knowing a good few people struggling to pay their way, I do believe a lot would jump on the chance of training to do a steady job in demand which provides a semi decent wage.

    We've got off topic here... I've already said immigration isn't my chief concern, but people keep bringing it back, so maybe it is just everyone else's chief concern. I guess my original point was, leaving the EU will not leave us with a "brain drain" as one man mentioned, merely a "skill drain", which could be easily corrected through some encouragement on the governments part for people to train in these professions, as we have the people available to do the jobs. Failing that, if we need to import workers we still can, immigration won't be stopped, we will simply be able to only import the skills we need.
    It's easy enough to say "keep a lookout for people who you'd think would be good nurses", but then that puts more pressure on Job Center staff because nothing is ever as simple as "keep an eye out!" there would be checklists and training that the staff would have to go through to tell them the qualities to look out for. Job center staff are already under enough strain as it is never mind adding another part to the job description!

    Also, a lot of people prefer to not work quite simply because the Conservative (Coalition pre 2015) Government have not made work "pay". Despite various benefit caps and Income fax threshold changes, work doesn't "pay" like it used to. This combined with a rise in 0 contracted hours jobs (which work benefit systems weren't designed to handle), it is simpler for many people to not work at all and survive off the dole. If you want to blame someone for this: don't blame the EU or immigrants, blame the Conservatives. It seems as if people just have some form of "migrant tourette's" where if there is any problem: just blame the migrants - might not be their fault but they still blame them nevertheless.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Well, the Government doesn't really care about the poor.

    If Poles left and wages were higher then goods would be more expensive and that would disproportionately affect the poor anyway. Capitalism will always destroy those at the bottom.
    Thats nonsense and a horrible statement. Have some hope in our country and believe in our country. I believe that capitalism will not damage the poor outside the EU as much as we are in the EU right now.
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Thats nonsense and a horrible statement. Have some hope in our country and believe in our country. I believe that capitalism will not damage the poor outside the EU as much as we are in the EU right now.
    Most remainers actively hate Britain and want us to be absorbed into foreign powers
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Training Nurses and Docs costs a significant amount of money. Training them in this country is already heavily subsidized.

    No Government is just going to train another 20,000 when it costs at least 10's of thousands a year to train one and they can get another one that cost nothing to train for a cheaper wage.

    Also, not every moron can be a nurse and etc. If you are unemployed and can't get a job in Greggs, why would you think they are capable of looking after multiple sick people?

    This is just common sense.
    We could use the millions which is currently being sent to Brussels to train 1000s of Nursers, Police, Ambulance and Fire fighters
    +The money needed to build a new Schools, Hospitals every week to cope with the population boom of this country


    #VOTELEAVE
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    (Original post by Naveed-7)
    Thats nonsense and a horrible statement. Have some hope in our country and believe in our country. I believe that capitalism will not damage the poor outside the EU as much as we are in the EU right now.
    Yawn. I provide reasoning. You provide " I believe"
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    We could use the millions which is currently being sent to Brussels to train 1000s of Nursers, Police, Ambulance and Fire fighters
    +The money needed to build a new Schools, Hospitals every week to cope with the population boom of this country


    #VOTELEAVE
    So then you are not planning to have Free Trade with Brussels.

    Good to know.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    So then you are not planning to have Free Trade with Brussels.

    Good to know.
    1) Free trade with EU isn't the be-all-and-end-all
    2) EU won't tariff us harshly when we do reach a trade agreement
    3) In the unlikely event we don't, we only have to pay WTO tariffs which are still lower
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    We could use the millions which is currently being sent to Brussels to train 1000s of Nursers, Police, Ambulance and Fire fighters
    +The money needed to build a new Schools, Hospitals every week to cope with the population boom of this country


    #VOTELEAVE
    Lol. The Cost to train 10,000 Nurses is approximately 700 Million and you want to train thousands of Nurses, Police, Ambulance and etc and build hospitals.

    More BS.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    We could use the millions which is currently being sent to Brussels to train 1000s of Nursers, Police, Ambulance and Fire fighters
    +The money needed to build a new Schools, Hospitals every week to cope with the population boom of this country


    #VOTELEAVE
    So we should throw the £540m it would take to train 20,000 nurses (figure based on £9000 a year tuition fee alone and a 3 year course) on top of the £113BILLION worth of promises from the leave campaign saying what they would do with this magical "£350m per week" we give to Brussels. Also can I note that this figure is rising each and everyday with the latest addition to the Vote Leave promise list looking to be worth £4.5 billion pounds.

    I don't claim to be the best person at economics, or maths even, but surely even a 7 year old can figure out that £113billion (Vote Leave cash promises) is bigger than £18 billion ( the money we give to the EU without the rebate, EU grants and funding etc.) ... right?
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    1) Free trade with EU isn't the be-all-and-end-all
    2) EU won't tariff us harshly when we do reach a trade agreement
    3) In the unlikely event we don't, we only have to pay WTO tariffs which are still lower
    So you don't want free trade. That is just what I wrote.
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    (Original post by Jee1)
    We could use the millions which is currently being sent to Brussels to train 1000s of Nursers, Police, Ambulance and Fire fighters
    +The money needed to build a new Schools, Hospitals every week to cope with the population boom of this country


    #VOTELEAVE
    And put the economy at risk - you know, the economy that pays the taxes that really does pay for new hospitals and schools.
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    (Original post by aidenj)
    So we should throw the £540m it would take to train 20,000 nurses (figure based on £9000 a year tuition fee alone and a 3 year course) on top of the £113BILLION worth of promises from the leave campaign saying what they would do with this magical "£350m per week" we give to Brussels. Also can I note that this figure is rising each and everyday with the latest addition to the Vote Leave promise list looking to be worth £4.5 billion pounds.

    I don't claim to be the best person at economics, or maths even, but surely even a 7 year old can figure out that £113billion (Vote Leave cash promises) is bigger than £13 billion ( the money we give to the EU without the rebate, EU grants and funding etc.) ... right?
    Well, the 9000 is heavily subsidised by the Government. The Government spends approx 70,000 to train a Nurse. So the cost is just astronomical.
 
 
 
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