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    1. (Original post by tazarooni89)
      A lot of Muslims have links to war torn countries even if they're not physically from they're. Not least, Muslims often get angry about wars in countries that they have no relation to at all (Palestine being an obvious example) because it's other Muslims being attacked there.*
      lol you say that so blazenly like its normal. it isnt, its function of a flawed system. again a muslim in uk getting so angry about a muslim in palestine or iraq that he travels to pakistan to learn how to bomb 50 of his fellow countrymen - may make sense to you in an islamic perspective - it does not from any moral, logical or indeed humanistic one. im explaining to you that its the islamic persective that is flawed- ad what essentially leads to terrorist attacks. islamist doctrine instils a primitive form of tribalism that is not even instinctive to human psyche - ie a drip drip effect that eventually makes you hyper sensitive to the political agendas of islamic leaders and de-sensitises you to violence toward fellow countrymen, ethnicity, even family assuming they dont follow the same islamic agenda. Point being- i or anyone normal has some sort of loose 'nationalistic feeling ' toward where i grew up, family, the people that surrounded me, that i became familiar with, supported me etc. Islam teaches opposite, ie to turn back on close ones, familiar and native surroundings if they are not islamic. and in fact to create an almost violent obsession with islamic causes over and above even your own family. it is unhealthy and unnatural - and indeed leads to murders.
    2. This is not new revolutionery thinking btw, people have known this for decades - but banked perhaps on the ability of western society and its benefits to overcome backward thinking. in the case of islamist ideology ( and the use of internet etc) - as a result the islamic world has a lot more confused nutcases within that are susceptable to extremism. Note that the attack you see are tip of the iceberg - you have heard little about the attacks that were foiled, the ones that never got off the ground, and indeed the ones that play out in the heads of the gullible Ummah.com or suchlike islamic chat forum users. the real damage islamist rhetoric is not i the political sphere, its inn the minds of the all the future problems of suggestable youth pre-programmed at childhood to adopt whatever is islamic in nature and reject else
      (Original post by tazarooni89)
      No, I didn't, this is actually your failure to read. I have said repeatedly that the Qur'an condemns these things very obviously.No, I'm saying that the Qur'an is a higher authority than him. Referring to him becomes irrelevant when the matter is made clear in the Qur'an.There's a completely separate debate to be had about whether what Muhammad did was contrary to the Qur'an or not, which gets complex because people it is easily misrepresented, misunderstood, some historical sources are inaccurate etc. But it's moot either way.*
      it amuses me the way you suggest noone can read anything without 'mis-interpretating' funny how its only the messages of violence that get mis-interprets in islamic world. whereas all other elements are practiced ' to a perfect understanding' Anyway without digressing, mohammed was clearly written to have ' tow female satirsts killed after his conquest of mecca. There isnt much to mis-interpret. and dont forget we arnt talking about the notes on the Double Helix here, but the tales of a arabian warlord going to war with some other arabian warlords. You seem to keep asserting that mohammed has gone agaisnt the quran - but you forget for billion odd muslims, mohammed is the perfect muslim and knows the quran better than anyone. so their actions can follow his ( in their minds)
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    If that is definitely you, then of all the Muslims that you know, why have none of them come and crucified you yet, as the verse suggests?
    My personal charm and the fact that they have not encountered me in a Moslem country.
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    1. (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)

      That is not to say the peons have no agency and there will be more educated a self aware ones. But I just don't think it is what is in the book that is the problem. IT is a more deeper part of human nature and herd mentality at work imo. Which is why it is stupid and counter productive to try and make the troubles we face now as a "the liberal west" vs "Muslims" that many seem to want. It should be liberals vs Islamists and terrorists, where Muslims can be on the liberal side.
      it should be but it isnt - hence the problem. radical islam and islamists control all the power in islam becuase they are the ones that are closest to its pre-medieval origins. moderate reformists are the fringe in their society - they have no power or influnce. they have to have a death wish if they are to speak up. and we are no better - do liberals speak out against intollerance and tyrrany ? only if they are well versed int it. if they dont , they do not. can we speak out about islamist ideology here on tsr ? no because your posts will be removed. how do you expect moderate muslims to do the same if we arnt even able?
    and the point that most islamists cant quote the entire quran ( most of the billion or so muslims cant btw either) is not really relevant. we are all supporters of western democracy, can we all quote all our legistlative acts ? doesnt mean we dont support the principles
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    That is a stupid question. For any crime, you blame the perpetrator, solely. Would you blame all Irish people for the IRA, or all white Americans for the lynching of blacks?
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    Islam is a religion of peace.These terrorists that have attacked London, Paris, Manchester and New York are not Muslims. You are not a Muslim if you are a terrorists.The quran's teachings are all about peace except the section about Capital Punishment.Islam does not teach people to go round and kill people.They say their Muslims when clearly they're not because they are not following the rules of Islam.I know that the recent Manchester Bombing was very upsetting many people helped out including Muslims if no one has realised.Some of the taxi drivers and the people who offered homes where Muslims.
    This terrorist attack has had such an impact on most people including Muslims. The terrorists do not reflect the Islamic population, im a Muslim and I think this attack is horrible, absolutely horrible.An act of wickedness and cowardice. I think its unbelievable what goes though a persons mind to target such innocent people.The past 2 days there has been so much verbal abuse to Muslims, many people have threatened to kill Muslims for revenge because for some reason they think that all Muslims are behind this.I know Muslims who have been pushed and called disgusting names that they dont deserve to hear, because we angry with these terrorists just like the rest of the population are.Obviously the harassment of Muslims is not as serious as the bombing but i think its unacceptable for strangers to harass Muslims for something they haven't done .It is completely unacceptable to set a mosque on fire too.

    I'm so sorry ive went into a huge rant but please try to spread this message round,i am very heartbroken about is attack just like you are.I know its very easy to blame others for something they haven't done but give them a chance.
    I wont you to spread this message round and to remember it, Muslims are not terrorists. Terrorists are not Muslims .They are very different, completely opposite in fact.I might get hate for this but thank you for understanding and taking the time to read this.
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    (Original post by EmanRahman2001)
    Islam is a religion of peace.
    No. Islam is a religion of peace and violence.

    These terrorists that have attacked London, Paris, Manchester and New York are not Muslims. You are not a Muslim if you are a terrorists.
    Again, wrong. If you take the shahadah and follow the 5 pillars, you are a Muslim. Even if the killings are not Islamically justified, committing a sin does not make you non-Muslim, and there are hundreds of ways by which Allah will remove all your sins (simply greeting another Muslim will remove all your sins!)

    The quran's teachings are all about peace except the section about Capital Punishment.
    There are many more passages about violence, fighting, hate, discrimination and intolerance.

    (BTW, the "there is no violence apart from the violent bits" is not really much of an argument)

    Islam does not teach people to go round and kill people.
    No, but it does contain passages that can be interpreted as justifying the actions of those who do.

    Some of the taxi drivers and the people who offered homes where Muslims.
    You do realise that by using the example of the behaviour of individual Muslims as representative of Islam, you are defeating your own argument about the actions of terrorists not being representative of Islam.

    The behaviour of an individual is only representative of their own behaviour.
    An ideology must be judged on its content.

    Muslims are not terrorists. Terrorists are not Muslims .
    Some obviously are.

    They are very different, completely opposite in fact.I might get hate for this but thank you for understanding and taking the time to read this.
    The Quran and sunnah are ambiguous, contradictory and confusing. It is no wonder that there are many different interpretations. You favour one, ISIS favour a different one. Both can be justified by cherry-picking passages to suit your agenda. Until the peaceful, moderate majority accept this and, they will run the risk of being tainted by association.
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    (Original post by rhia9)
    Islam is a religion of peace. Is ISIS really "Islamic" or are they just using this as a mask and the real reason for the attacks is the urge to have power? Why do people say "Muslims were responsible for the 9/11 attacks, or the Paris bombings?" Were they really?


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    No, it is not fair because not all Muslims approve of terrorism and feel saddened when the blame and generalisations about them are targeted at them.
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    [QUOTE=QE2;71706312]No. Islam is a religion of peace and violence.

    Some obviously are.

    Seriously????
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    (Original post by adorable16)

    Seriously????
    What exactly are you surprised at, that some terrorists are Muslim?
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    What exactly are you surprised at, that some terrorists are Muslim?
    That the religion promotes violence
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    What exactly are you surprised at, that some terrorists are Muslim?
    Quite.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    What exactly are you surprised at, that some terrorists are Muslim?
    And actually the terrorists are not Muslims, they just use it in a barbaric way.
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    (Original post by adorable16)
    And actually the terrorists are not Muslims, they just use it in a barbaric way.
    They believe in Allah, Muhammad as his last messenger and in the perfection and infallibility of the Quran and therefore are Muslims. Just because they do things you don't like doesn't mean they don't believe in Islam. This No true Scotsman fallacy isn't helping anyone and if anything, makes the problem worse.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    They believe in Allah, Muhammad as his last messenger and in the perfection and infallibility of the Quran and therefore are Muslims. Just because they do things you don't like doesn't mean they don't believe in Islam. This No true Scotsman fallacy isn't helping anyone and if anything, makes the problem worse.
    I respect your opinion.
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    (Original post by adorable16)
    That the religion promotes violence
    You obviously have not read the Koran for yourself then. Presumably you have learned about Islam from an imam who has censored the nasty bits.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    You obviously have not read the Koran for yourself then. Presumably you have learned about Islam from an imam who has censored the nasty bits.
    Actually, I have never read it and I have not learnt it from an imam, I am not religious thank you very much.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    You obviously have not read the Koran for yourself then. Presumably you have learned about Islam from an imam who has censored the nasty bits.
    People just exaggerate the violence found in the book
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    There are 1.6 billion muslims in the world. If islam was truly a religion of violence and terror we would all be dead right now
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    (Original post by adorable16)
    Actually, I have never read it and I have not learnt it from an imam, I am not religious thank you very much.
    Given you say this, how can you possibly say this:

    (Original post by adorable16)
    People just exaggerate the violence found in the book
    You cannot possibly know, and are discussing something you clearly know nothing about.
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    (Original post by saffah)
    There are 1.6 billion muslims in the world. If islam was truly a religion of violence and terror we would all be dead right now
    I agree
 
 
 
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