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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    The criticism of the word 'islamophobia' is a way of Islamophobes dodging the point.

    Islamophobia simply means hate/fear of Islam or Muslims. No one says it means hate/fear of both at the same time. Neither does it mean 'opposing' or 'being critical'. For example, Richard Dawkins isn't an Islamophobe for being critical of Islam.

    I believe I already explained this twice to you.
    you can interpret a fuzzy concept such as "islamophobia" as you prefer : there is no meaning defined by law

    so : to you your islamophobia, to me mine

    and yes, I believe i have explained this to you already many, many times

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    you can interpret a fuzzy concept such as "islamophobia" as you prefer : there is no meaning defined by law

    so : to you your islamophobia, to me mine

    and yes, I believe i have explained this to you already many, many times

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    Its not an open-to-interpretation phrase, it is defined as "Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force."
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Its not an open-to-interpretation phrase, it is defined as "Dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force."
    why exactly should we follow this definition ? in fact, 67.65% of people on this forum who cared to answer a poll disagreed with this definition , and 17.65% only agreed

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3860741

    so, to you your definition, to me mine, and to the Oxford dictionary its own : I have explained this to you so many times...

    in any case, since I dislike Islam, I have no problem in accepting your "Islamophobic" label, if it makes you happy

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    why exactly should we follow this definition ? in fact, 67.65% of people on this forum who cared to answer a poll disagreed with this definition , and 17.65% only agreed

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3860741

    so, to you your definition, to me mine, and to the Oxford dictionary its own : I have explained this to you so many times...

    in any case, since I dislike Islam, I have no problem in accepting your "Islamophobic" label, if it makes you happy

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    Because its the set-in-stone definition from the Oxford Dictionary. Just because 2/3rds of a tiny sample of students indicates there is some disagreement with the definition, it doesn't mean the definition should be open to interpretation.

    Islamophobia means what it means, there is no dispute. Nowhere is Islamophobia defined as fear/hate of both Muslims and Islam simultaneously, its quite clearly defined as fear/hate of either.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Because its the set-in-stone definition from the Oxford Dictionary.
    it's set in nothing at all

    in fact, the definition in the Oxford English Dictionary is different from the one in Oxford Dictionary Online. Mirriam-Webster online does not even reference it.

    With regard to official use, the Runnymede report titled "Islamophobia: A Challenge for Us All" was published in November 1997 by the Home Secretary, Jack Straw. In this report, Islamophobia was defined as "an outlook or world-view involving an unfounded dread and dislike of Muslims, which results in practices of exclusion and discrimination."

    And there goes your "set in stone" definition . Try again.

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    it's set in nothing at all

    in fact, the definition in the Oxford English Dictionary is different from the one in Oxford Dictionary Online. Mirriam-Webster online does not even reference it.

    With regard to official use, the Runnymede report titled "Islamophobia: A Challenge for Us All" was published in November 1997 by the Home Secretary, Jack Straw. In this report, Islamophobia was defined as "an outlook or world-view involving an unfounded dread and dislike of Muslims, which results in practices of exclusion and discrimination."

    And there goes your "set in stone" definition . Try again.

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    Know that when I am talking about it, I mean fear/hate of Islam/Muslims.

    So maybe we can get back to discussing the point, instead of tangentially avoiding the substance of the argument over some childish dispute over what a word means.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Know that when I am talking about it, I mean fear/hate of Islam/Muslims.
    that's much better... you seem at least to recognise somehow the subjective/controversial nature of the definition

    but how about disliking Islam/Muslims ? has dislike disappeared from your "set-in-stone" definition of Islamophobia ? and yet, both the Oxford English Dictionary and the Oxford Online Dictionary include "dislike" or (respectively) "intense dislike" in their definition... so, it seems that in order not to qualify as an Islamophobe, we have to like Islam, or at least not to dislike it, or-if we do dislike it - then not intensely (but only, perhaps, moderately, or tangentially)

    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    So maybe we can get back to discussing the point, instead of tangentially avoiding the substance of the argument over some childish dispute over what a word means.
    hey, you have been repeating to me, over and over again, at any opportunity "Islamophobia includes hate/fear of Islam or of Muslims" "Islamophobia includes hate/fear of Islam or of Muslims" "Islamophobia includes hate/fear of Islam or of Muslims" "it's set in stone" etc etc

    so, blame yourself for the "childish dispute", dear friend

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    (Original post by mariachi)
    that's much better... you seem at least to recognise somehow the subjective/controversial nature of the definition

    but how about disliking Islam/Muslims ? has dislike disappeared from your "set-in-stone" definition of Islamophobia ? and yet, both the Oxford English Dictionary and the Oxford Online Dictionary include "dislike" or (respectively) "intense dislike" in their definition... so, it seems that in order not to qualify as an Islamophobe, we have to like Islam, or at least not to dislike it, or-if we do dislike it - then not intensely (but only, perhaps, moderately, or tangentially)

    hey, you have been repeating to me, over and over again, at any opportunity "Islamophobia includes hate/fear of Islam or of Muslims" "Islamophobia includes hate/fear of Islam or of Muslims" "Islamophobia includes hate/fear of Islam or of Muslims" "it's set in stone" etc etc

    so, blame yourself for the "childish dispute", dear friend

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    Its beyond dispute that you were the one who brought up Islamophobia as a loose word in the first place.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    Its beyond dispute that you were the one who brought up Islamophobia as a loose word in the first place.
    it's beyond dispute that you were the one who brought up Islamophobia as a fixed concept (with a set-in-stone definition) in the first place
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    it's beyond dispute that you were the one who brought up Islamophobia as a fixed concept (with a set-in-stone definition) in the first place
    ...in response to you whinging about my use of the word Islamophobia.
    A commonly-used tactic of Islamophobes to evade the point - that their hatred of Islam is harmful if acted on and causing the problem to accelerate.
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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    .
    A commonly-used tactic of Islamophobes etc etc their hatred of Islam etc
    well, dear friend, it seems that we have reached the end of the line

    and yes, of course I do dislike Islam, so by the Oxford English Dictionary definition (if not necessarily by its online version) I would in fact qualify as a fully-fledged, card-carrying Islamophobe

    so, I'll resort to my trusted Islamophobic tactics and bid you good bye, at least for the moment

    have a nice evening !
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    (Original post by KingBradly)
    So you're saying bells can be racist?
    Just when you thought some people couldn't get crazier.
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    (Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
    There wouldn't be police sirens at dawn every single day.

    I'm genuinely surprised you haven't moved to Pakistan or some other Muslim country because your kind of arrogance about your religion would get you far in those places. Are you planning to move after you graduate from uni?
    What I do with my life is none of your business

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    (Original post by alevelstresss)
    its a shame you can't recognise your fellow Islamophobes on sight, the OP is fully against the proposal and wanted to start another Islam-bashing thread
    It's a shame you can't recognise off the cuff, non serious responses on sight.
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    No thank you, I do not want loud calls to prayer in the UK just to please a small minority of muslims in the population. There are loads of ways you can be reminded to go to prayer (alarms, phone reminders, get organised, get into a routine etc.) without the need for an obnoxiously loud call to prayer.

    Please respect that by here in the UK you are living in a diverse country yes, but also one when christianity is the religion of the majority, and it is incredibly disrespectful to suggest such a thing which could cause outrage and disruption, not to mention create a large wedge between already divided religions.

    Just respect that in the UK where the majority are christian it wouldnt be fair to impose something like this. If you are really wanting to live a very muslim culture then why not chose a muslim country to do so, if you like the UK just respect and understand that things have to be a little bit different.


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    A: This will NEVER be passed, not saying it because I'm for or against, but it'll never happen.
    B: Even if it did, this will just hurt the muslim-non muslim relationship that is already hurting.

    TBF I'm actually doubting they will even debate it. I'm expect one of those long replies basically saying no.
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    What I do with my life is none of your business

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    well, you whetted our appetite... tell us why hearing the adhan (call to prayer) is so important for you, and how you think it would fit in the UK, how non-Muslims would feel about it, what your view is about the future of Islam in the UK, why you would choose (or not) to migrate etc ...

    we are curious

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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    What I do with my life is none of your business

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    I asked you a simple question to do with your views and how you choose to live with your life because of them. Considering you don't even want to talk about it, I can only assume your responses would be weak ones.
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    (Original post by Pinkberry_y)
    Are you trolling? Yes Britian is proud to be a multicultural country, but at the end of the day it's not a religious country. Our monarchy is Christian. If you want your loud call prayers and your sharia lifestyle go move to Saudia Arabia.
    Given their posting history, I think it's fair to assume the OP's idea of promoting this petition is to give the petition attention that it will be picked up by the media and thus giving the anti-Muslim crowd something else to fuel their agenda, rather than the OP all of a sudden being a Muslim :rolleyes:

    Personally I think it would be totally unnecessary and I certainly can't see something like this being passed by the government in the current climate and I do agree that in a secular and increasingly non religious country, pandering to religion of any kind is unnecessary.
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    Hanwar we are NOT a Muslim country, we ARE A CHRISTIAN country. Therefore this wouldn't be 'awesome' for us, in the same way that churches in Saudi Arabia wouldn't be 'awesome' for you


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