D&D Religion's "Ask About Sikhism" Thread Watch

Suave
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#301
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#301
(Original post by _H_)
yes. do you know what that meaning is?


really. since when do Hindus take amrit?
and, by the way, the instrument or method makes all the difference.
I'm going to end this debate now because it's been rinsed out. What I will say is that the instrument/method does not make all the difference- they are superficial. Differences in philosophy, the foundations of a religion make "all the difference". It's just common sense.
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USingh
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#302
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ROFL
I take it you are you too lazy to read all of Guru Granth Sahib Ji then? If you want to make assumptions about a belief system that have been refuted by its very founders (and it really is very silly to do that anyway) then does it not make sense to you to read all of the philosophy at the very least?
No, I am not going to spoon feed you the meanings behind the 5 ks, you wouldn't even be able to begin to understand without actually reading Gurbani. Even more importantly in Sikh belief only one who lives the life can truly understand it.
I'm nowhere near a pure individual so I make no attempts at hiding I am still filled with these vices, though that shouldn't stop you from taking the message from it. But anyway thank you very much for allowing me to read my Guru's words
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DDS
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#303
(Original post by Suave)
I'm going to end this debate now because it's been rinsed out. What I will say is that the instrument/method does not make all the difference- they are superficial. Differences in philosophy, the foundations of a religion make "all the difference". It's just common sense.

Its common sense Sikhs aint hindus.
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USingh
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(Original post by Suave)
I'm going to end this debate now because it's been rinsed out. What I will say is that the instrument/method does not make all the difference- they are superficial. Differences in philosophy, the foundations of a religion make "all the difference". It's just common sense.
Who on earth are you to say that?? You haven't taken amrit so you have NO IDEA about its worth.

"He alone appreciates the value of the Ambsosial Nectar, who deals in this Ambrosia. ||1||Pause|| "
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_H_
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(Original post by Suave)
I'm going to end this debate now because it's been rinsed out. What I will say is that the instrument/method does not make all the difference- they are superficial. Differences in philosophy, the foundations of a religion make "all the difference". It's just common sense.
the instrument/method does make a difference. sarabloh bibek? saas giraas?

vaheguroo sacheh paatshah mehar kareh.
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Suave
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(Original post by USingh)
ROFL
I take it you are you too lazy to read all of Guru Granth Sahib Ji then?
Not at all. Everything that is said by you and others confirms my belief for me. Maybe one day after I have gone through my own scriptures thoroughly I can read the twin scripture of the GGS.

If you want to make assumptions about a belief system that have been refuted by its very founders (and it really is very silly to do that anyway) then does it not make sense to you to read all of the philosophy at the very least?
The philosophy is the same from what I've read so far. I genuinely believe that all the perceived differences are due to ignorance and lack of understanding. For example, that website you linked had this as an argument:

Dear Hindu friend: Vedas, Shastars are your religious books but what Guru Ji has said about them we state here.



You may stand and recite the Shaastras and the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny, but these are just worldly actions. Filth cannot be washed away by hypocrisy, O Siblings of Destiny; the filth of corruption and sin is within you. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 635)



O Pandit, O religious scholar, your filth shall not be erased, even if you read the Vedas for four ages. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 647)



He is beyond the world of the Vedas, the Koran and the Bible. The Supreme King of Nanak is immanent and manifest. ||4||3||105|| (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 397)



One may read all the books of the Vedas, the Bible, the Simritees and the Shaastras, but they will not bring liberation. (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 747)
Now the ignorant will look at this and think "Ah yes, Sikhism doesn't follow the Vedas because the Vedas don't hold the Truth". Wrong.. If anything, these words are exactly the same as what the Bhagavad Gita says:

(Original post by Bhagavad Gita)
They, the ignorant ones, proclaim their flow’ry speech, O Pritha’s son, delighting in the Veda’s word, and saying: “There is nothing else"
(Original post by Bhagavad Gita)
The misguided ones who delight in the melodious chanting of the Veda - without understanding the real purpose of the Vedas - think, O Arjuna, as if there is nothing else in the Vedas except the rituals for the sole purpose of obtaining heavenly enjoyment.
(Original post by Bhagavad Gita)
To a Self-realized person the Vedas are as useful as a small reservoir of water when the water of a huge lake becomes available.
These are all saying the same thing; both the Sikh quotes and the Gita quotes . Some understanding will enable you to see this.


No, I am not going to spoon feed you the meanings behind the 5 ks, you wouldn't even be able to begin to understand without actually reading Gurbani. Even more importantly in Sikh belief only one who lives the life can truly understand it.
Just the Kara please. If I was wrong about the meaning behind wearing it I'd like you to tell me, because from what I've read up it is exactly what I said. I'd like to hear your side of the story.

I'm nowhere near a pure individual so I make no attempts at hiding I am still filled with these vices, though that shouldn't stop you from taking the message from it. But anyway thank you very much for allowing me to read my Guru's words
Don't mention it.
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Mr Murder
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#307
At the end of the day it is up to the Sikhs themshelves to decide whether they feel they are a part of hinduism or not. Different people will interpret things differently. It isnt just Hinduism that tries to claim Sikhism as theirs but also other religions like Islam, Buddhism and some others do also claim it as part of theres. I dont think Sikhs should take offence from it, its more of a compliment, only reason people may claim Sikhism as theres is because they may some truth in it.

And Suave is right about the kara someone who does righthous deeds prays and meditates is obviously better than some who just wears the kara as a fashion accessiories most Sikhs would agree to that also
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Suave
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#308
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(Original post by Mr Murder)
At the end of the day it is up to the Sikhs themshelves to decide whether they feel they are a part of hinduism or not. Different people will interpret things differently. It isnt just Hinduism that tries to claim Sikhism as theirs but also other religions like Islam, Buddhism and some others do also claim it as part of theres. I dont think Sikhs should take offence from it, its more of a compliment, only reason people may claim Sikhism as theres is because they may some truth in it.

And Suave is right about the kara someone who does righthous deeds prays and meditates is obviously better than some who just wears the kara as a fashion accessiories most Sikhs would agree to that also
The point is, I'm not trying to claim that Sikhism is "mine" as if it's a possession or it is owned by Hinduism, but the fact that both philosophies are One even if at a superficial level they appear to be slightly different.
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Suave
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#309
(Original post by _H_)
the instrument/method does make a difference. sarabloh bibek? saas giraas?

vaheguroo sacheh paatshah mehar kareh.
Su kidhu?
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Mr Murder
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#310
(Original post by Suave)
The point is, I'm not trying to claim that Sikhism is "mine" as if it's a possession or it is owned by Hinduism, but the fact that both philosophies are One even if at a superficial level they appear to be slightly different.
Sikhism is a some what monotheistic religion while hinduism has a range of belifs monotheism, ,panentheism, pantheism, polytheism monism,henotheistic and atheism. So depending on which type of hinduism or which cult etc. you may follow you proberbly will find differences or similarities.

I myself aint very knowledgeable on either religion so i'll just listen to the other peoples views.

In essence all religions are the same anyway
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SolInvictus
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(Original post by Suave)
Su kidhu?
What language?
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Suave
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(Original post by SolInvictus)
What language?
Gujarati...I'm no expert even though it's supposed to be my "mother tongue" but I know the basics.
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USingh
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(Original post by Suave)
Not at all. Everything that is said by you and others confirms my belief for me. Maybe one day after I have gone through my own scriptures thoroughly I can read the twin scripture of the GGS.
there you go again. you have acknowledged that you have not read Guru Granth Sahib Ji, yet you can still say that it is identical? There is no sense in that.

The philosophy is the same from what I've read so far. I genuinely believe that all the perceived differences are due to ignorance and lack of understanding.
Throughout all of our debating I have replied to you what the meanings of the Gurbani that you have misinterpreted are, you are simply being stubborn and placing your own understanding gained from glancing at a line once above the meanings that have been among Sikhs for hundreds of years. All I can say is it is not your place to go around making a claim about a religion which you have not even read the full philosophy of, especially when the claim has been directly and explicitly rejected by the founders.

Just the Kara please. If I was wrong about the meaning behind wearing it I'd like you to tell me, because from what I've read up it is exactly what I said. I'd like to hear your side of the story.
What you have read is the simple meaning regarding the physical aspect. There are deep spiritual meanings in the 5ks that can only be understood from firstly actually wearing them, following rehat and the spiritual routine and most importantly reading Gurbani. They are deeply linked with central concepts such as Naam, ascension of the soul, etc. This isn't just the kara but the others also.
Once again you are making statements based on judgments which you have developed from incomplete knowledge (something you have admitted yourself) and then stating them as fact.Thats just not on.

At the end of the day what is it to Hindus if Sikhs want to remain seperate? Why can't you just leave us to follow Sikhism? I suppose thats one clear difference between Hinduism and Sikhisim, the concept of live and let live and let others follow what they want!
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USingh
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(Original post by Suave)
Su kidhu?
So I am guessing you are not familiar with those two integral concepts? FYI they are central to Sikh philosophy and way of life, I say to you that this is proof alone that you know very little about Sikhism, certainly not enough for you to try to call it identical to Hinduism.
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Suave
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(Original post by USingh)
there you go again. you have acknowledged that you have not read Guru Granth Sahib Ji, yet you can still say that it is identical? There is no sense in that.
In my view yes. From what I've read on this forum, aswell as that site you sent me and from the little I have read from the GGS I have made that conclusion. I will admit that I haven't read it all.You must also make a concession, however, because you haven't the Hindu scriptures either and it is pretty obvious that you don't understand fully our the philosophy, therefore, you are incapable to making a valid comparison.

Throughout all of our debating I have replied to you what the meanings of the Gurbani that you have misinterpreted are, you are simply being stubborn and placing your own understanding gained from glancing at a line once above the meanings that have been among Sikhs for hundreds of years. All I can say is it is not your place to go around making a claim about a religion which you have not even read the full philosophy of, especially when the claim has been directly and explicitly rejected by the founders.
That's because your interpretation is based on a strawman foundation. The "idol worship" is pure evidence for this. My quotes from the Bhagavad Gita which corroborate the GGS also lay as evidence to my point.

What you have read is the simple meaning regarding the physical aspect. There are deep spiritual meanings in the 5ks that can only be understood from firstly actually wearing them, following rehat and the spiritual routine and most importantly reading Gurbani. They are deeply linked with central concepts such as Naam, ascension of the soul, etc. This isn't just the kara but the others also.
Can you elaborate? If not, then I will do my own research into the matter.

At the end of the day what is it to Hindus if Sikhs want to remain seperate? Why can't you just leave us to follow Sikhism? I suppose thats one clear difference between Hinduism and Sikhisim, the concept of live and let live and let others follow what they want!
Oh no, that is very much another similarity of Hinduism and Sikhism- the concept of live and let live. As I said before you are free to believe what you want, I am not the one getting angry at your denial of my viewpoint, you are the aggressor here. It's clear to me who can't stand to accept other people's opinions.
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DDS
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#316
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#316
hindus are muslims.
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USingh
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#317
(Original post by Suave)
...
Lol, God help you.
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Suave
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#318
(Original post by USingh)
Lol, God help you.
I reciprocate your loving sentiments.
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Suave
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#319
Right anyway, moving on, what does Sikhism say about eating meat?
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meenu89
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#320
(Original post by Suave)
Right anyway, moving on, what does Sikhism say about eating meat?
can't eat beef, can't eat halal meat
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