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Saracen's Fez
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#3241
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#3241
(Original post by Aph)
Probably especially on the right side but the basic idea is that it's meant to be simplistic.
Well social democrat fits in between socialist and Blairite, which itself I'd say is pretty similar to centre.
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Aph
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#3242
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#3242
(Original post by KingStannis)
I suppose you guys think that capitalism doesn't exist now because we have a minimum wage? C'mon people, think this through.
You mean a tiny stipend of the money the bosses get which they can pay just to get away with it and because it's so low it just encourages exploitation? Nahhh capitalism still exist.
(Original post by Saracen's Fez)
Well social democrat fits in between socialist and Blairite, which itself I'd say is pretty similar to centre.
So it's just on the left side of blairite... Too close really.
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KingStannis
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#3243
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#3243
(Original post by Aph)
You mean a tiny stipend of the money the bosses get which they can pay just to get away with it and because it's so low it just encourages exploitation? Nahhh capitalism still exist.

So it's just on the left side of blairite... Too close really.
left vs right collapses somewhat with Blairism because it distinguishes ideological outcomes with economic means to achieve it. The economic means are pragmatic.

The premise was that when concessions are made to the workers capitalism doesn't exist. If we live in a capitalist system which ENFORCES one such concession, then logically either A it's not capitalism or B capitalism is more complex than your narrow view of it.
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Aph
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#3244
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#3244
(Original post by KingStannis)
left vs right collapses somewhat with Blairism because it distinguishes ideological outcomes with economic means to achieve it. The economic means are pragmatic.

The premise was that when concessions are made to the workers capitalism doesn't exist. If we live in a capitalist system which ENFORCES one such concession, then logically either A it's not capitalism or B capitalism is more complex than your narrow view of it.
Or capitalism is controlled by the top and the top want to give the illusion of rights and power to keep all their little worker bees in line.
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KingStannis
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#3245
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#3245
(Original post by Aph)
Or capitalism is controlled by the top and the top want to give the illusion of rights and power to keep all their little worker bees in line.
You're thinking of socialism and to a greater extent communism. Capitalism is controlled by markets.
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PetrosAC
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#3246
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#3246
I love how in the N.I Election Debate they're all sitting on comfy chairs. They do it right!

A shame Gay Marriage didnt pass in the N.I Assembly though

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Aph
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#3247
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#3247
(Original post by KingStannis)
You're thinking of socialism and to a greater extent communism. Capitalism is controlled by markets.
Capitalism is controlled by the rich.
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Rakas21
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#3248
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#3248
You revolutionaries crack me up.

Revolution does not come because GDP growth goes from +2 to -2, it hinges on unemployment. In the UK we have unemployment a tad under 6% and there's certainly no threat of revolution (far from it, more people may vote Tory-Labour than the last election, it's the rest of the vote that's split). It's not until you get to Spain and Greek kind of 25% levels that you start seeing genuine socialists elected.

Additionally, need i remind you that the socialism which springs forth from a revolution may not be your lovely hippy dippy one. Power vacuums tend not to be filled by selfless communists.
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Tanqueray91
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#3249
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#3249
Is everyone being boring, and gone to bed?
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barnetlad
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#3250
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#3250
(Original post by mobbsy91)
Is everyone being boring, and gone to bed?
Yes, and had a good night's sleep thank you.
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DaveSmith99
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#3251
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#3251
(Original post by KingStannis)
The 20th century happened. Anti capitalism is no longer an intellectually defensible position.
A tad arrogant to assume that we've invented the best economic system there'll ever be, no?
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Jean-Luc Picard
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#3252
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#3252
I'm on the radical Left but I don't think a revolution is likely tbh, at least not anytime soon, best I really hope for is some political changes, but even those I don't hold out much hope for.

if you're on the radical left and you aren't incredibly depressed by politics you are doing something wrong imho
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Jammy Duel
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#3253
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#3253
(Original post by DaveSmith99)
A tad arrogant to assume that we've invented the best economic system there'll ever be, no?
Arrogant, but not exactly a misplaced belief. How many thousands of years has capitalism been around in one for or another as the prevalent economic philosophy? How many alternative systems have been attempted and abandoned? Capitalism consistently shows itself as the least worst alternative, at least for those with the power to steer the direction of the economic system. Now, to me, that's not the same as saying that it IS the best, but I honestly believe that based on this some form of capitalism will maintain itself as the prevalent system, even if it evolves into something we now would barely recognise.

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Jammy Duel
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#3254
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#3254
(Original post by Aph)
Capitalism is controlled by the rich.
Who derive their wealth from the market... even if we hold your statement as true, "the market" still determines who the rich are, ultimately, "the market" still holds the control, iy is the kingmaker.

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tehFrance
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#3255
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#3255
:woo: Capitalism! **** Yeah! Lets Bomb Freedom on Some Country! :woo:
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DaveSmith99
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#3256
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#3256
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Arrogant, but not exactly a misplaced belief. How many thousands of years has capitalism been around in one for or another as the prevalent economic philosophy? How many alternative systems have been attempted and abandoned? Capitalism consistently shows itself as the least worst alternative, at least for those with the power to steer the direction of the economic system. Now, to me, that's not the same as saying that it IS the best, but I honestly believe that based on this some form of capitalism will maintain itself as the prevalent system, even if it evolves into something we now would barely recognise.

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About 400 or 500 years. Capitalism in it's current, recognisable form about 200 years. It's not the system that we've had for all of human history, if it was abolished today it would be a tiny, tiny footnote.
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Aph
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#3257
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#3257
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Who derive their wealth from the market... even if we hold your statement as true, "the market" still determines who the rich are, ultimately, "the market" still holds the control, iy is the kingmaker.

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you say market as if its some entity. the markets are controled by money and the rich control the money.



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tehFrance
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#3258
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#3258
(Original post by Aph)
you say market as if its some entity. the markets are controled by money and the rich control the money.
The markets are an entity and they control us rather than us controlling them. No one is in control of the markets, they're their own force of nature which brings both harm and good all at once.

I adore markets and I really need to get back into it now that my legal troubles are ending... Banking for all although not me, I can only get a 'Basic' bank account and I'm banned from opening trading accounts in the UK, hello Luxembourg
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DaveSmith99
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#3259
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#3259
This animal rights lady on the daily politics is crazy :lol:
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James Milibanter
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#3260
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#3260
(Original post by DaveSmith99)
This animal rights lady on the daily politics is crazy :lol:
Did you see the Class war "bloke" yesterday?
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