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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    I've heard that there are 80 odd IDF fatalities so far.
    Wont look good for ninyahuu at home.
    He was pressured and he is going to come under more pressure.

    Maybe if he kept his head instead of blowing his top, it might have been contained but it is going to be humiliating for him.

    Extreme right wingers will win the next election if Bibi capitulates. HAMAS will come out of this "relatively unscathed".

    What do you think?
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    (Original post by miavdbt)

    ..
    I, er, fail to see why you would post this. It has no relevance but you clearly believe that you can flog this dead horse so go ahead...
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    it is a terrorist organisation as designated by most right thinking people and it is also driven by the islamic agenda, as are all islamists. i cant really explain that any clearer for you
    So is it political, religious or both?

    Maybe one of your little buddies can come help you, no?
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    HAMAS feeding "disinformation" (?) to scare the Israeli public so they ramp up the pressure on Netanyahu who is already near boiling point?

    Talks of parasails and whatnot...
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    He was pressured and he is going to come under more pressure.

    Maybe if he kept his head instead of blowing his top, it might have been contained but it is going to be humiliating for him.

    Extreme right wingers will win the next election if Bibi capitulates. HAMAS will come out of this "relatively unscathed".

    What do you think?
    ithink casualties will continue till hamas run out of rockets and then things will go back to as they were, just like after the previous 2 intifadas - complete waste fo time and life. but then islamists have abundance of both and they are cheap commodities to them
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    ithink casualties will continue till hamas run out of rockets and then things will go back to as they were, just like after the previous 2 intifadas - complete waste fo time and life. but then islamists have abundance of both and they are cheap commodities to them
    Though the question was not addressed to you, I nevertheless, welcome your opinion, however flawed and off topic it was...
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    I, er, fail to see why you would post this. It has no relevance but you clearly believe that you can flog this dead horse so go ahead...
    I addressed your other point about your deceitful tactics as well.

    I have some questions for you because I feel like I do not understand your position clearly.

    You think Hamas is a good means for those who want to fight against 'Israeli aggression ' .

    Do you think that if Israel were to agree to the ceasefire which Hamas requested, there would be no more aggression towards Israel from the Gaza Strip?

    If you believe that Hamas is not responsible for the militant jihadists which fired rockets into Israel prior to the conflict escalating, what do you think should have been done about the issue? Do you think Israel should have simply ignored the issue since Hamas is not directly responsible?

    Do you think that, given that in its charter Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel, Israel should recognize Hamas as a legitimate government?

    Do you think that the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization (according to such entities such as the EU and US) is erroneous? Why or why not?

    Why do you think Israel is so opposed to Hamas being the governing body? Do you think it's because they just want to steal Gaza from the Palestinians or do you think there might be a deeper, underlying issue such as national security and the safety of each and every Israeli?

    Why do you think this kind of conflict is not happening in the West Bank but just in Gaza?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    If they do, they go back to living under a siege.

    .
    the 'siege' was only there becuase of hamas and their terrorist activities. so its a bit of a circular argument - with hamas and islamists in general always appearing in the centre of it
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    (Original post by tsr1269)

    If HAMAS are not in "direct control" of their own armed wing, how do you expect them to control other organisations and factions?




    I believe that HAMAS are the best option, at the moment, for those who believe they should seek resistance against the Israeli aggression...
    Do you think that if Hamas can't control their own armed wing, they should be allowed to govern Gaza?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Though the question was not addressed to you, I nevertheless, welcome your opinion, however flawed and off topic it was...
    not flawed at all, history has shown us repeatedly the result after dust settles of islamic intifadas in palestine = losts of dead muslim civilians, braying islamists and status quo politically
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    He was pressured and he is going to come under more pressure.

    Maybe if he kept his head instead of blowing his top, it might have been contained but it is going to be humiliating for him.

    Extreme right wingers will win the next election if Bibi capitulates. HAMAS will come out of this "relatively unscathed".

    What do you think?
    Hamas will not really come out unscathed, many leaders and commanders killed, their network of tunnels destroyed, and the huge loss of civilian life and infrastructure too.
    Things will go back to square one, gaza will still be under siege an open prison.
    Hamas will continue rocket fire, and in two or three years time another war
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    I addressed your other point about your deceitful tactics as well.
    You only posted something by Meenglishisnogood. There was nothing else.

    I have some questions for you because I feel like I do not understand your position clearly.
    Sure, go ahead.

    You think Hamas is a good means for those who want to fight against 'Israeli aggression ' .
    I believe the Palestinians believe that HAMAS are a good resistance movement.

    Do you think that if Israel were to agree to the ceasefire which Hamas requested, there would be no more aggression towards Israel from the Gaza Strip?
    No.

    If you believe that Hamas is not responsible for the militant jihadists which fired rockets into Israel prior to the conflict escalating, what do you think should have been done about the issue? Do you think Israel should have simply ignored the issue since Hamas is not directly responsible?
    Israel should have investigated and taken out the ones who were responsible.

    Do you think that, given that in its charter Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel, Israel should recognize Hamas as a legitimate government?
    I believe there is nothing inherently illegal about calling for the destruction of a state. Borders are as easily erased as drawn.

    Do you think that the fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization (according to such entities such as the EU and US) is erroneous? Why or why not?
    "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"...

    Why do you think Israel is so opposed to Hamas being the governing body? Do you think it's because they just want to steal Gaza from the Palestinians or do you think there might be a deeper, underlying issue such as national security and the safety of each and every Israeli?
    I do not believe that Israel wants to "steal Gaza" per se...

    Why do you think this kind of conflict is not happening in the West Bank but just in Gaza?
    I'll answer this one later.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    the 'siege' was only there becuase of hamas and their terrorist activities. so its a bit of a circular argument - with hamas and islamists in general always appearing in the centre of it
    And HAMAS only took power after an attempted coup by Fatah tacitly supported by Israel and the US.

    HAMAS simply pre-empted the coup and surprised the Israeli's at the 2006 polls, despite their most rigorous attempts to deny HAMAS voters access to the polling stations.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    ithink casualties will continue till hamas run out of rockets and then things will go back to as they were, just like after the previous 2 intifadas - complete waste fo time and life. but then islamists have abundance of both and they are cheap commodities to them
    I think it is useless for them to keep firing rockets into Israel for no good reason. I can't explain to myself to this day why they would possibly fire rockets which can't achieve much, just to have rockets thrown at Gaza which undoubtedly hurt civilians. Palestinian blood is cheap to Hamas.

    I've seen some articles,

    Hamas invites Hezbollah to join fighting against Israel


    As well as,

    Hamas turns to North Korea for weapons deal, Iran for money

    This has raised some questions in my mind, such as, on the media front, how will Hamas keep up their image of an impoverished freedom fighter faction when they sign arms deals for millions? As well as, will this have any significant impact on the current conflict?

    I mean, even if Hezbollah were to join and North Korea were to provide weaponry, they would still be fighting against one of the most powerful armies in the world. An army which can literally obliterate Gaza at any moment.

    Why take the risk?

    No doubt if these two things happened, the conflict will be prolonged, but will much else be achieved?
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    Do you think that if Hamas can't control their own armed wing, they should be allowed to govern Gaza?
    I think that it is a safeguard put in place.

    It demonstrates the fact that the the military is not at the personal whims of the political leadership and can make an honest appraisal of potential outcome of a conflict.

    It stops politicians from getting big-headed and allows resources to be used efficiently.

    In essence, it is a good structure to hold.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)

    There are increasing reports of anti-Semitism across Europe.
    there is reports of raising anti semitism and attacks on property etc in countries which have large muslim populations ie germany france etc. even in the uk there are cases which seem to be taking this country back tot he dark ages of the National Front and neo nazis on the street s . to quote the article

    "Britains Jews are suffering an anti-semitic backlash against Israel’s military action in Gaza with attacks, bomb threats, bricks thrown at a synagogue and “Hitler was right” banners.

    "Many are said to have been carried out by young Muslim men and, in some cases, the attackers have invoked the Holocaust."

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1439435.ece
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    not flawed at all, history has shown us repeatedly the result after dust settles of islamic intifadas in palestine = losts of dead muslim civilians, braying islamists and status quo politically
    "Try try try again".
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    And HAMAS only took power after an attempted coup by Fatah tacitly supported by Israel and the US.

    HAMAS simply pre-empted the coup and surprised the Israeli's at the 2006 polls, despite their most rigorous attempts to deny HAMAS voters access to the polling stations.
    presumably cos israel and usa felt fatah were actually were a group that could sit at the negotiating table and not a terrorist islamist group like hamas ( lessor of two evils theory) but becuase hamas as you say took power, they since then have ended possibly of resolution and essentially plunged palestinans into a life of hell for last 8 years, and continuing to do so, becuase as ive said many times islamist apply no value to an average muslim life in fact its worthless, in fact the more that get killed in this conflict the better the propaganda image for them
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    "Try try try again".
    to sacrifice more muslim lives on behalf of the islamist agenda? yes that is indeed the hamas mantra. problem is it actually acheives ziltch for the regualr palestinian
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Hamas will not really come out unscathed, many leaders and commanders killed, their network of tunnels destroyed, and the huge loss of civilian life and infrastructure too.
    Looking at this from a callous point of view:

    Men, personnel and tunnels are "replaceable". Spirit is not.

    As long as the core resistance of HAMAS is not taken out, the Palestinians will resist.

    Things will go back to square one, gaza will still be under siege an open prison.
    I have a feeling this time will be a little different. HAMAS and the Palestinians have had enough of these "mini wars". They will not accept a ceasefire without some concessions and this one will be aimed for the Palestinians (as opposed to the last ceasefire where prisoners released was their main aim).

    Hamas will continue rocket fire, and in two or three years time another war
    It's ironic that Israel invades to defeat rocket fire but it actually increases rocket fire.

    It invades to take out tunnels but more tunnels are being used.


    If they had just left it the way things are...
 
 
 
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