The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

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thehistorybore
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#3281
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#3281
(Original post by tehFrance)
I honestly don't care, they can all kill each other for what I care.
Crikey.
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thehistorybore
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#3282
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#3282
(Original post by Rakas21)
It's what happens when you have a large alternate ethnicity in one place. While the US can deal with some of the institutional stuff there's still an underlying division.

We had the Bradford riots here back in 01..
Pity isn't it. All this makes you wonder whether humans are inherently racist/xenophobic. Some extraordinary displays of humanity though.
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tehFrance
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#3283
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#3283
(Original post by Aph)
You sure you don't wanna stay a Tory?
Why, what do you know? :holmes:

Also, a president goes against being a Tory.
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Aph
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#3284
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#3284
(Original post by tehFrance)
Why, what do you know? :holmes:

Also, a president goes against being a Tory.
Everything:ninja:

exactly, you can 'nudge' the Tory party in the left direction
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Rakas21
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#3285
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#3285
(Original post by thehistorybore)
Pity isn't it. All this makes you wonder whether humans are inherently racist/xenophobic. Some extraordinary displays of humanity though.
It all boils down to culture and allegiance to the pack. Black Americans for example call themselves African American and have a strong interest in heritage so they don't allow themselves to be accepted by ordinary Americans (though they are certainly not innocent). Muslims today probably have it worst in the UK because there's a very negative media perception of their religion and in places like Bradford they do congregate (ergo separating themselves).

Unfortunately, humans are a very divided species and may always be so.
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thehistorybore
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#3286
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#3286
(Original post by Rakas21)
It all boils down to culture and allegiance to the pack. Black Americans for example call themselves African American and have a strong interest in heritage so they don't allow themselves to be accepted by ordinary Americans (though they are certainly not innocent). Muslims today probably have it worst in the UK because there's a very negative media perception of their religion and in places like Bradford they do congregate (ergo separating themselves).

Unfortunately, humans are a very divided species and may always be so.
I suppose from the evolutionary perspective it's inevitable; foreigners were almost exclusively a threat at one time, and these suspicions are something we have never lost.

I've just been having a read about Bradford, and I can't help but thing we have more of that sort of affair on the horizon.

I have tremendous sympathy for the muslims. Some of the talk of them that I have heard has made me feel physically sick, so hateful it was. The media portrays their whole religion, and by extension the people themselves, as being completely alien and hostile to our society. On the note of regarding muslims as foreign, alien and evil, have you watched the English Democrats' election broadcast? It's a jolly good laugh.
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Rakas21
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#3287
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#3287
(Original post by thehistorybore)
I suppose from the evolutionary perspective it's inevitable; foreigners were almost exclusively a threat at one time, and these suspicions are something we have never lost.

I've just been having a read about Bradford, and I can't help but thing we have more of that sort of affair on the horizon.

I have tremendous sympathy for the muslims. Some of the talk of them that I have heard has made me feel physically sick, so hateful it was. The media portrays their whole religion, and by extension the people themselves, as being completely alien and hostile to our society. On the note of regarding muslims as foreign, alien and evil, have you watched the English Democrats' election broadcast? It's a jolly good laugh.
True.

I suppose it could do if you had a trigger. I'd expect there could be a massive grooming scandal or some such.

I struggle with the issue. My instincts as a capitalist and somebody that's relatively liberal on immigration is to take a general 'if your coming to work then good on you' however living in Bradford for 12 years i have a pretty negative impression and i'm not entirely convinced that large groups of them are either compatible or even desire to fit in. I'm sure there are lovely individuals and i've had a handful of Muslim friends over the years but living next to that city i hear stories of crime, sexual abuse, rape, stabbings and it's in the areas they are in. Politically they are having an effect in the city too.

I'd never go to the extent of the BNP and kick anybody out though.
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thehistorybore
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#3288
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#3288
(Original post by Rakas21)
True.

I suppose it could do if you had a trigger. I'd expect there could be a massive grooming scandal or some such.

I struggle with the issue. My instincts as a capitalist and somebody that's relatively liberal on immigration is to take a general 'if your coming to work then good on you' however living in Bradford for 12 years i have a pretty negative impression and i'm not entirely convinced that large groups of them are either compatible or even desire to fit in. I'm sure there are lovely individuals and i've had a handful of Muslim friends over the years but living next to that city i hear stories of crime, sexual abuse, rape, stabbings and it's in the areas they are in. Politically they are having an effect in the city too.

I'd never go to the extent of the BNP and kick anybody out though.
Well I hope to God we don't see it being realised.

I can see where your coming from, and I think people's views on immigration almost always depend on their experience of it. As Bradford's immigration characteristic is largely working class/1st generation immigrants who make little effort to assimilate, combined with the stories of crime, I can see why people would feel as you do.

I can offer an absolute contrast; I grew up in multicultural North London, and my year at prep school seemed to represent every ethnicity under the sun, but because the children and their parents were usually professional, well assimilated people who I found most agreeable. To what extent these sort of people make up the immigration statistics I am unaware, but it means I have a highly relaxed view on immigration.

Although I still find plenty of reason to be Eurosceptic.
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bun
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#3289
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#3289
As one of my favourite actors, and fellow Tory, Sir Christopher Lee said, "I learned early that the one truly international quality among people of all races is xenophobia". It's sad, but it's the natural, inbuilt feeling. The point is to overcome that with education etc.
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thehistorybore
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#3290
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#3290
(Original post by bun)
As one of my favourite actors, and fellow Tory, Sir Christopher Lee said, "I learned early that the one truly international quality among people of all races is xenophobia". It's sad, but it's the natural, inbuilt feeling. The point is to overcome that with education etc.
Terribly sad, but not untrue.

Perhaps that's why the EDL gentlemen all sound as if they're semi-literate?
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Aph
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#3291
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#3291
https://gritdigital.co.uk/infographi...5-opinion-poll

please let this happen, please.:puppyeyes:
Attached files
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Life_peer
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#3292
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#3292
I have to ask: Why is aversion between races inherently bad while intolerance between species is natural and acceptable? Why, if such aversion is natural, should we counter it? If we maintain the secular approach, I can't see any rational justification for punishing racially motivated hatred while remaining indifferent to harming animals, especially those that exhibit signs of consciousness and/or are even superior to humans in certain cognitive tasks.

(Original post by bun)
QFA
(Original post by thehistorybore)
QFA
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Republic1
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#3293
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#3293
(Original post by Aph)
https://gritdigital.co.uk/infographi...5-opinion-poll

please let this happen, please.:puppyeyes:
I don't like the look of so much purple, but all that Green would be okay I guess.

I have a feeling you Greens are going to absolutely wipe the floor with the rest of us in this MHoC election
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Aph
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#3294
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#3294
(Original post by Republic1)
I don't like the look of so much purple, but all that Green would be okay I guess.

I have a feeling you Greens are going to absolutely wipe the floor with the rest of us in this MHoC election
But there is no blue!!! I can put up with a bit of purple with no blue.

nope, this election is labours to lose really.
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nixonsjellybeans
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#3295
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#3295
(Original post by Aph)
https://gritdigital.co.uk/infographi...5-opinion-poll

please let this happen, please.:puppyeyes:
Quite interesting thing you've found there

I live in a Green stronghold that is surrounded by the kippers. In reality the Greens will get destroyed in my area, Respect will most likely get more votes :lol:
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Kittiara
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#3296
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#3296
(Original post by Republic1)
I don't like the look of so much purple, but all that Green would be okay I guess.

I have a feeling you Greens are going to absolutely wipe the floor with the rest of us in this MHoC election
It would be nice, but I doubt it. I think Labour will win, followed by the Conservatives. With all us smaller parties gaining a few seats each.
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Aph
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#3297
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#3297
(Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
Quite interesting thing you've found there

I live in a Green stronghold that is surrounded by the kippers. In reality the Greens will get destroyed in my area, Respect will most likely get more votes :lol:
I was shocked when I saw it!!!

well that's a shame, we need more green mp's
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thehistorybore
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#3298
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#3298
(Original post by Life_peer)
I have to ask: Why is aversion between races inherently bad while intolerance between species is natural and acceptable? Why, if such aversion is natural, should we counter it? If we maintain the secular approach, I can't see any rational justification for punishing racially motivated hatred while remaining indifferent to harming animals, especially those that exhibit signs of consciousness and/or are even superior to humans in certain cognitive tasks.
That is indeed a good point, but I suppose it lies more in our perception of ourselves as superior to animals. When xenophobia is seen in animals, its not generally due to a difference in culture like humans, obviously, but it lies in the threat that outsiders pose to food supply/mates etc. by increased competition.

Xenophobic humans tend not to think that outsiders are here to steal our food (although sometimes I wonder if certain ultra-right parties think this way), and it is more culturally based. I, personally, have found that academics generally tend to favour muliticulturism; and thats perhaps because these people have been educated to move beyond what is effectively an evolutionary characteristic. After all, multiculturalism makes up part of the rich tapestry of Britain
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thehistorybore
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#3299
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#3299
(Original post by Life_peer)
I have to ask: Why is aversion between races inherently bad while intolerance between species is natural and acceptable? Why, if such aversion is natural, should we counter it? If we maintain the secular approach, I can't see any rational justification for punishing racially motivated hatred while remaining indifferent to harming animals, especially those that exhibit signs of consciousness and/or are even superior to humans in certain cognitive tasks.
I can't help myself from further commenting on 'what it means to be British'. I find it very hard to understand why certain people can be xenophobic and British; historically speaking, Britain has been invaded by outsiders over and over again, making it almost impossible to directly fathom what an 'English' or 'British' person is.

English people could be Anglo-Saxons, they're originally German tribesmen.

They could be Normans, who are French.

They could be Vikings, in which case they're Germanic/Norse.

They could be Romans, and thus Italians.

The true English people were the Britons (who were Celts), and they haven't been the true resident population since 55BC.
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username1524603
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#3300
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#3300
I have returned from my local question time for the candidates in the upcoming election and I was disgusted to hear the Green candidate personally attack the Conservative candidate, saying he has blood on his hands and should be ashamed of himself, after blaming suicides on Conservative welfare reforms. My overall conclusion remain unchanged; Conservatives talk sense but need to be more conservative, Labour are focused on giving other peoples' money to the undeserving, TUSC are economically illiterate, and the UKIP is the nearest party to my views. For anyone wondering about the Lib Dem, she did not turn up.
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