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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    there is reports of raising anti semitism and attacks on property etc in countries which have large muslim populations ie germany france etc. even in the uk there are cases which seem to be taking this country back tot he dark ages of the National Front and neo nazis on the street s . to quote the article

    "Britains Jews are suffering an anti-semitic backlash against Israel’s military action in Gaza with attacks, bomb threats, bricks thrown at a synagogue and “Hitler was right” banners.

    "Many are said to have been carried out by young Muslim men and, in some cases, the attackers have invoked the Holocaust."

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1439435.ece
    The neo-nazi's must be in a quandary...
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    When I asked you whether if Israel agreed to the ceasefire which included Hamas's conditions, this would end conflict from the Gaza Strip towards Israel, you said no. My follow up question is, what do you think Israel should do in order to ensure that the Gaza Strip does not threaten Israel on a daily basis? You obviously strongly disagree with the current operation. What do you think would be a fair solution that will appease both sides? And then, do you think that this solution is plausible in the world that we live in, given that it is not perfect?

    (Original post by tsr1269)






    Israel should have investigated and taken out the ones who were responsible.

    But how could Israel have done that? Gaza is now under the control of Hamas. Israel left Gaza. There were no Israelis in Gaza prior to the ground offensive. Don't you believe that Hamas should be accountable for the terror attacks that happen from within its borders if it wants to be seen as a legitimate governing body?




    I believe there is nothing inherently illegal about calling for the destruction of a state. Borders are as easily erased as drawn.




    "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"...

    ​So you believe Hamas are freedom fighters.


    I do not believe that Israel wants to "steal Gaza" per se...

    Then what do you believe Israel's aims in Gaza are?



    I'll answer this one later.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    to sacrifice more muslim lives on behalf of the islamist agenda? yes that is indeed the hamas mantra. problem is it actually acheives ziltch for the regualr palestinian
    Well then, one must simply try again.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    The neo-nazi's must be in a quandary...
    i think the article shows the islamists have taken over the mantle of the neo nazis. you can tie some of the arab- irsraeli probellms to anti-semitism too
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    presumably cos israel and usa felt fatah were actually were a group that could sit at the negotiating table and not a terrorist islamist group like hamas ( lessor of two evils theory) but becuase hamas as you say took power, they since then have ended possibly of resolution and essentially plunged palestinans into a life of hell for last 8 years, and continuing to do so, becuase as ive said many times islamist apply no value to an average muslim life in fact its worthless, in fact the more that get killed in this conflict the better the propaganda image for them
    Israel and US, despite both being proponents of democracy also engage in hypocrisy and double standards.

    Israel and the US should have respected the decision of the Palestinian people, instead of attempting to engineer a coup through Fatah.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Well then, one must simply try again.
    why, because you dont think enough muslims have been killed yet? how many is a good number for you then
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    i think the article shows the islamists have taken over the mantle of the neo nazis. you can tie some of the arab- irsraeli probellms to anti-semitism too
    Who do you think the neo-nazi's are supporting?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Israel and US, despite both being proponents of democracy also engage in hypocrisy and double standards. .
    i agree , all regiemes do, be they western eastern communist or islamic

    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Israel and the US should have respected the decision of the Palestinian people, instead of attempting to engineer a coup through Fatah.
    unfortunatly the decision' of the Palestinians was to side with islamists ( i also always query 'election results' in these muslims countries anyway) as we all know. my point has always been this was the worng decision- as islamists are manipulative war-mongerers and do regualr palestinians no favours, in fact they jsut use them as sacrifical sheep for their 'bigger agenda' as they do anywhere else there is a signifcant muslim population
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Who do you think the neo-nazi's are supporting?
    probably hamas , seeing as the Naziis were allied with the islamists before 1947.

    but i doubt there at that many neo naziis left in the uk, the anti semistism attacks in uk falling out form gaza seem to be featuring muslims instead.
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    When I asked you whether if Israel agreed to the ceasefire which included Hamas's conditions, this would end conflict from the Gaza Strip towards Israel, you said no. My follow up question is, what do you think Israel should do in order to ensure that the Gaza Strip does not threaten Israel on a daily basis?
    Examine the objections of the Palestinian people and address them.

    You obviously strongly disagree with the current operation. What do you think would be a fair solution that will appease both sides? And then, do you think that this solution is plausible in the world that we live in, given that it is not perfect?
    I think a one-state solution (which no one wants) would be the best option.

    But how could Israel have done that? Gaza is now under the control of Hamas. Israel left Gaza. There were no Israelis in Gaza prior to the ground offensive. Don't you believe that Hamas should be accountable for the terror attacks that happen from within its borders if it wants to be seen as a legitimate governing body?
    I suppose you think the Shin Bet and Mossad personnel are just sitting around in their offices pushing paper and submitting false expense reports?

    Israel boasts of the worlds best spy agency. Why wouldn't you use them?

    ​So you believe Hamas are freedom fighters.
    I'm saying that it depends on your perception. It's simply a label, be it "terrorist" or "freedom fighter"...

    Then what do you believe Israel's aims in Gaza are?
    To subjugate HAMAS and the Palestinians in Gaza through various means such as effective occupation, mass killings and disruption of everyday life so that they falter in their spirit and recognise the State of Israel.


    Israel craves legitimacy and it has decided that mass oppression, instead of the American favourite of "hearts and minds" is the best way to go about it.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    probably the muslims, as the naziis did before 1947.

    but i doubt there at that many neo naziis left in the uk, the anti semistism attacks in uk falling out form gaza seem to be featuring muslims instead.
    I meant neo-nazi's generally.

    Which do they hate more? Muslim immigration or Jews.

    Hell, that's a tough one.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    i agree , all regiemes do, be they western eastern communist or islamic

    unfortunatly the decision' of the Palestinians was to side with islamists ( i also always query 'election results' in these muslims countries anyway) as we all know. my point has always been this was the worng decision- as islamists are manipulative war-mongerers and do regualr palestinians no favours, in fact they jsut use them as sacrifical sheep for their 'bigger agenda' as they do anywhere else there is a signifcant muslim population
    It was declared "free and transparent" by the EU monitors.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    I meant neo-nazi's generally.

    Which do they hate more? Muslim immigration or Jews.

    Hell, that's a tough one.
    historically the jews, becuase they had all those crackpot theories about jews controlling the worlds business etc ( which incidentally some muslims in this thread have shared)

    but modern day they simply use muslim immigration for scapegoating purposes, which is exacerbated by the islamist agenda whcih is prominent in many muslim communities - id say they fear jews more tho because of their successes in higher echelons of the west.

    non of which is relevant to my original point i raised which is muslims in uk seem to be indulging in anti-semitism ( as the national front used to) on the back of the gaza situation
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    historically the jews, becuase they had all those crackpot theories about jews controlling the worlds business etc ( which incidentally some muslims in this thread have shared)

    but modern day they simply use muslim immigration for scapegoating purposes, which is exacerbated by the islamist agenda whcih is prominent in many muslim communities - id say they fear jews more tho because of their successes in higher echelons of the west.

    non of which is relevant to my original point i raised which is muslims in uk seem to be indulging in anti-semitism ( as the national front used to) on the back of the gaza situation
    So there is a correlation between the Israeli aggression against Gaza and an increase in attacks on Jews which is counted as "anti-Semitic"?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Examine the objections of the Palestinian people and address them.

    What about objections such as, "Israel should be destroyed, it should be Palestine from now on, and no jews allowed!"



    I think a one-state solution (which no one wants) would be the best option.

    A one state solution, as in Israelis and Palestinians living in one state? Would this state be Israel or Palestine? Would it be a mixture of the two? Why would it be the best option if it would make no one happy?




    I suppose you think the Shin Bet and Mossad personnel are just sitting around in their offices pushing paper and submitting false expense reports?

    Israel boasts of the worlds best spy agency. Why wouldn't you use them?

    ​Shouldn't it be the government cracking down on terrorist attacks which threaten national security? Because national security is threatened when the ceasefire is threatened. If Hamas sees itself as Gaza's government, shouldn't they be cracking down on jihadists in order to ensure that their ceasefire deal is not threatened? If they do nothing about it, aren't they accomplices presuming that they should have the resources and power to stop it from happening or at least discourage it?

    I know you mentioned earlier that the military wing of Hamas is independent of Hamas, but in that case, where does the accountability for the terror inflicted on Israel by Gaza lie?



    I'm saying that it depends on your perception. It's simply a label, be it "terrorist" or "freedom fighter"...'

    What's your perception?


    To subjugate HAMAS and the Palestinians in Gaza through various means such as effective occupation, mass killings and disruption of everyday life so that they falter in their spirit and recognise the State of Israel.


    Israel craves legitimacy and it has decided that mass oppression, instead of the American favourite of "hearts and minds" is the best way to go about it.

    I don't think Israel craves legitimacy so much as it craves security, which Hamas and Gaza have been unable to provide for Israel.
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    Bang! 3 "whataboutery" ducks in a row. You win a parrot in the form of Bibi.



    It was declared "free and transparent" by the EU monitors.
    the same EU that regarded hamas a terrorist organisation? odd. eu monitors are not the authority of elections in my mind. where was the UN?
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    (Original post by tsr1269)
    So there is a correlation between the Israeli aggression against Gaza and an increase in attacks on Jews which is counted as "anti-Semitic"?
    no, i think there is a correlation between an increase in islamist propaganda re gaza and amti semitic attacks on jews
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    An entire neighbourhood is bombed to annihilation by the IDF in gaza, within one hour.
    With total disregard to property and lives. God only knows how many innocent lives were lost
    This is nothing other than sheer wanton destruction and state terror.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)




    An entire neighbourhood is bombed to annihilation by the IDF in gaza, within one hour.
    With total disregard to property and lives. God only knows how many innocent lives were lost
    This is nothing other than sheer wanton destruction and state terror.
    Maybe when Gaza's citizens stop allowing themselves to be used as a human shield by Hamas the IDF will no longer be forced to defend themselves.
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    (Original post by miavdbt)
    What about objections such as, "Israel should be destroyed, it should be Palestine from now on, and no jews allowed!"
    In your opinions, why are those objections not legitimate?

    A one state solution, as in Israelis and Palestinians living in one state? Would this state be Israel or Palestine? Would it be a mixture of the two?
    Palisrael has a nice ring to it...

    Why would it be the best option if it would make no one happy?
    Because if one party was happy, it would mean that one side got more than they bargained for and would inevitably lead to more conflict.

    If both sides are unhappy, then they would look at the other and see them in the same position and thus would be unwilling to engage as it would achieve nothing.

    ​Shouldn't it be the government cracking down on terrorist attacks which threaten national security? Because national security is threatened when the ceasefire is threatened. If Hamas sees itself as Gaza's government, shouldn't they be cracking down on jihadists in order to ensure that their ceasefire deal is not threatened? If they do nothing about it, aren't they accomplices presuming that they should have the resources and power to stop it from happening or at least discourage it?
    Those "terrorist attacks" do not threaten Gazan national security but they do "threaten" Israeli national security.

    I know you mentioned earlier that the military wing of Hamas is independent of Hamas, but in that case, where does the accountability for the terror inflicted on Israel by Gaza lie?
    On Israel as it effectively operates a blockade and therefore has the means and the fire power to hold those accountable.

    What's your perception?
    I believe Israel and the Western States have classified them as a "terror organisation" whilst many individuals consider them to be "resistance fighters"...


    I don't think Israel craves legitimacy so much as it craves security, which Hamas and Gaza have been unable to provide for Israel.
    When burglars enter your home, you don't sit down for tea with one whilst his mates rob you blind.

    You blow their ****ing head off. Politely, of course...
 
 
 
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