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    (Original post by Rekyht)
    And yet Drew Brees has played consistently on a Brady/Manning level since 2006, and yet still the media will never say 'Is Rodgers approaching the Brees/Brady/Manning level?' Always forgetting about Drew
    Disagree with that. The fact he eclipsed Marino's record will have cemented him among the Brady/Manning group now.
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    (Original post by Rekyht)
    And yet Drew Brees has played consistently on a Brady/Manning level since 2006, and yet still the media will never say 'Is Rodgers approaching the Brees/Brady/Manning level?' Always forgetting about Drew
    Stats wise yes, but haven't the Saints only won their division 3 times in 6 years? Only 4 of those 6 seasons have been winning seasons. I just don't think Brees and the Saints have dominated as much as Colts and Pats.

    Purely on a statistical basis though, Brees deserves to be mentioned along side them.
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)
    Stats wise yes, but haven't the Saints only won their division 3 times in 6 years? Only 4 of those 6 seasons have been winning seasons. I just don't think Brees and the Saints have dominated as much as Colts and Pats.

    Purely on a statistical basis though, Brees deserves to be mentioned along side them.
    Brees deserves to be mentioned on a statistical and QB level. Winning seasons and division losses were not really down to him, it was *normally* our defense. Although he did have an off season last year with 22 picks.
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    (Original post by Rekyht)
    Brees deserves to be mentioned on a statistical and QB level. Winning seasons and division losses were not really down to him, it was *normally* our defense. Although he did have an off season last year with 22 picks.
    But can the very best QBs not carry their teams? Poor defences and all?
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)
    But can the very best QBs not carry their teams? Poor defences and all?
    Theres a limit to that theory. Our defenses before Gregg Williams in 09, were downright awful, you can't always carry a team for multiple seasons. They were acceptable to a very limited extent in 10 and 11, but i'm glad Williams is gone now.
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)
    But can the very best QBs not carry their teams? Poor defences and all?
    Dan Marino couldn't get a superbowl ring & Elway only won his two at the end when he had the running game and defense to back him up. It's probably easier now than it once was and you aren't going to see as many journeyman QBs win it (Brad Johnson being an example), but you'll still see it.

    Also, as many QBs have shown, you can't pass the ball when a defensive lineman parks you on your arse, or, for that matter, if your wideouts can't catch...
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    (Original post by fudgesundae)
    Would you say that they are one of the best teams ever though (as has been said this season). I never actually thought they were as good as some people said, an undoubtedly brilliant team, but one of the great teams? no. Same goes for Rodgers. Fantastic QB? yes. One of the best? no. Still don't think he is near the level of Brady or Manning.
    I don't know, I didn't listen to any of that stuff. Like others have said it was a dumb thing to say after not even one season. Even the best teams off all time weren't undefeated and could probably have lost to the Giants team that showed up yesterday. We'll see after 5 years if this Packers era is close to the greatest of all time.
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    The Packers were slightly overhyped but they are an exceptional team. Few people would have picked the Giants to win that one. The Giants just wanted it more on the night, and Pierre-Paul was creating havoc all night long. That guy is a straight up BALLER.

    Mind, Eli has gone up massively in my estimation this year. Still lol'd when Troy Aikman described him as a "game manager" in the 4th quarter with the Giants up by 17...
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    (Original post by Hedgeman49)
    The Packers were slightly overhyped but they are an exceptional team. Few people would have picked the Giants to win that one. The Giants just wanted it more on the night, and Pierre-Paul was creating havoc all night long. That guy is a straight up BALLER.

    Mind, Eli has gone up massively in my estimation this year. Still lol'd when Troy Aikman described him as a "game manager" in the 4th quarter with the Giants up by 17...
    I actually picked the Giants to win. I'm new to the NFL but from what i've learned from watching past championship seasons is defence wins championships and your form going into the playoffs gets you through. Not surprised that the ravens and the giants are through.
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    (Original post by yunghamz)
    I actually picked the Giants to win. I'm new to the NFL but from what i've learned from watching past championship seasons is defence wins championships and your form going into the playoffs gets you through. Not surprised that the ravens and the giants are through.
    Not strictly true in recent times. *Having* a defense will get you a championship, but it doesn't need to be dominant. Most teams could win a championship with a defense rated between 8 - 16 overall, But you're never going to win a championship without one, as the packers proved, and I think the Patriots will also prove.
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    (Original post by Rekyht)
    Not strictly true in recent times. *Having* a defense will get you a championship, but it doesn't need to be dominant. Most teams could win a championship with a defense rated between 8 - 16 overall, But you're never going to win a championship without one, as the packers proved, and I think the Patriots will also prove.
    Agreed.

    However our defense CAN play (as shown against the Broncos and some other limited occasions this year). If it can do for two more games, we are sure fire winners. It just depends if it can play as it is capable of, or if it starts sucking like I did the majority of the regular season. It's like I say to my good friend (also a Saint's fan), when the Patriots play their best football, there isn't a better team in the league this decade, never mind this year (apart from maybe 2007 Patriots). It's just such a shame we can't find the consistency of the defensive side of the ball
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    As a Cowboys fan, as much as it pains me to say this, I am glad the Giants won in week 17.

    The Cowboys would have been embarrassed in the playoffs, whereas the Giants are making noise, and by the looks of things, the NFC needs all the noise it can get!

    The Cowboys missing the playoffs seems to have kicked Jerry into a clear out frenzy. Hopefully the coaching changes will work, but I have a sneaking suspicion that nothing will change until Jerry steps back and lets the people who know what they are talking about make the decisions.
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    (Original post by tbag1)
    As a Cowboys fan, as much as it pains me to say this, I am glad the Giants won in week 17.

    The Cowboys would have been embarrassed in the playoffs, whereas the Giants are making noise, and by the looks of things, the NFC needs all the noise it can get!

    The Cowboys missing the playoffs seems to have kicked Jerry into a clear out frenzy. Hopefully the coaching changes will work, but I have a sneaking suspicion that nothing will change until Jerry steps back and lets the people who know what they are talking about make the decisions.
    The Cowboys won't be truly relevant until Jerry Jones finally employs a GM. The team hasn't done *really* well since he took over, and his drafts started taking effect as previous stars retired.

    I think the second they get a GM, they only need a few pieces with slightly different talents to the style of which Jerry drafts to go the whole way once again.
    Though I'd appreciate this if it didn't happen, because ESPN and NFL Network would be the most unwatchable thing ever.
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    just watched the highlights of the playoffs, the saints 49ers game was amazing
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    (Original post by The Patriot)
    Agreed.

    However our defense CAN play (as shown against the Broncos and some other limited occasions this year). If it can do for two more games, we are sure fire winners. It just depends if it can play as it is capable of, or if it starts sucking like I did the majority of the regular season. It's like I say to my good friend (also a Saint's fan), when the Patriots play their best football, there isn't a better team in the league this decade, never mind this year (apart from maybe 2007 Patriots). It's just such a shame we can't find the consistency of the defensive side of the ball
    I want some of what you're smoking. You honestly think this Patriots team is the best team of the decade besides the 2007 Pats? That is seriously the most ridiculous assertion I have ever heard regarding football. The Pats have played absolutely NOBODY this year. They have no defense. And they're going to get exposed this weekend. No team with a 31st ranked defense wins the Super Bowl. I'm sorry, but it just does not and will not ever happen.

    Oh, and I called that Giants win. A dominant defense will always beat an explosive offense. You saw what happened to the Packers. You saw what happened to the Saints. It's just a fact of football. Which is why the Ravens are going to win this weekend.

    And another thing, (there's just so many things to tear apart in this post) you say the Pats defense is inconsistent. They're ranked 31st in total defense. That's not inconsistent. That's absolutely and completely sucking at defense. I'm sorry, but let's call it what it is.

    Lastly, your defense played well against the Broncos. Let's not hype them up too much. They played a rookie Tim Tebow.

    The arrogance of Pats fans continues to astound me. Your team is not the second coming of Jesus Christ. You say the Pats are sure fire winners if their defense plays well in the next 2 games. You must not watch a lot of football. Anything can happen on any given sunday. To call any team ever a sure fire winner with 2 games left is completely ludicrous.

    I've said it time and time again on this thread, but defense wins championships. The person a couple posts above (who admitted to being new at football) even understands this concept. I don't understand why other people don't even after it's been proven over and over in the NFL.
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    (Original post by Baltimoron)
    I want some of what you're smoking. You honestly think this Patriots team is the best team of the decade besides the 2007 Pats? That is seriously the most ridiculous assertion I have ever heard regarding football. The Pats have played absolutely NOBODY this year. They have no defense. And they're going to get exposed this weekend. No team with a 31st ranked defense wins the Super Bowl. I'm sorry, but it just does not and will not ever happen.

    Oh, and I called that Giants win. A dominant defense will always beat an explosive offense. You saw what happened to the Packers. You saw what happened to the Saints. It's just a fact of football. Which is why the Ravens are going to win this weekend.

    And another thing, (there's just so many things to tear apart in this post) you say the Pats defense is inconsistent. They're ranked 31st in total defense. That's not inconsistent. That's absolutely and completely sucking at defense. I'm sorry, but let's call it what it is.

    Lastly, your defense played well against the Broncos. Let's not hype them up too much. They played a rookie Tim Tebow.

    The arrogance of Pats fans continues to astound me. Your team is not the second coming of Jesus Christ. You say the Pats are sure fire winners if their defense plays well in the next 2 games. You must not watch a lot of football. Anything can happen on any given sunday. To call any team ever a sure fire winner with 2 games left is completely ludicrous.

    I've said it time and time again on this thread, but defense wins championships. The person a couple posts above (who admitted to being new at football) even understands this concept. I don't understand why other people don't even after it's been proven over and over in the NFL.
    In fairness, the Saints loss was caused by complete ineptitude from our D-coordinator with 40 seconds left in the game. We were going to beat the 49ers until he blitzed 6 and left there only vertical threat in man coverage against malcom jenkins.

    So if anything, in the case of the 2011 Season, the Saints defense lost us a championship. :L
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    (Original post by lucas13)
    just watched the highlights of the playoffs, the saints 49ers game was amazing
    Game of the season, for sure.
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    (Original post by Baltimoron)
    I want some of what you're smoking. You honestly think this Patriots team is the best team of the decade besides the 2007 Pats? That is seriously the most ridiculous assertion I have ever heard regarding football. The Pats have played absolutely NOBODY this year. They have no defense. And they're going to get exposed this weekend. No team with a 31st ranked defense wins the Super Bowl. I'm sorry, but it just does not and will not ever happen.

    Oh, and I called that Giants win. A dominant defense will always beat an explosive offense. You saw what happened to the Packers. You saw what happened to the Saints. It's just a fact of football. Which is why the Ravens are going to win this weekend.

    And another thing, (there's just so many things to tear apart in this post) you say the Pats defense is inconsistent. They're ranked 31st in total defense. That's not inconsistent. That's absolutely and completely sucking at defense. I'm sorry, but let's call it what it is.

    Lastly, your defense played well against the Broncos. Let's not hype them up too much. They played a rookie Tim Tebow.

    The arrogance of Pats fans continues to astound me. Your team is not the second coming of Jesus Christ. You say the Pats are sure fire winners if their defense plays well in the next 2 games. You must not watch a lot of football. Anything can happen on any given sunday. To call any team ever a sure fire winner with 2 games left is completely ludicrous.

    I've said it time and time again on this thread, but defense wins championships. The person a couple posts above (who admitted to being new at football) even understands this concept. I don't understand why other people don't even after it's been proven over and over in the NFL.
    Baltimore have a +2 turnover differential. NEs? +17. We could give up 500 total yards against Baltimore, but if we take away the ball 4 times in the red zone, guess who's gonna win? You say Pats fans talk about their team like the second coming of christ, what about you and your Ravens? A fantastic defence, but if that moron at QB gives the ball away a couple of times, the opportunistic Pats defence force a few fumbles, Brady will win it.

    Packers and NO did not lose because of their poor defenses. They lost because of the amount of times they turned the ball over. NO and were still winning with 10 seconds to go against one of the best defences in the league. So turnovers killed their chances, not poor defence. Pretty sure the Packers turned it over 3 or 4 times as well.

    I agree with you on one point, any team can win on any given sunday. And at this stage in the playoffs, I don't think any result would be a big surprise.
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    (Original post by Baltimoron)
    I want some of what you're smoking. You honestly think this Patriots team is the best team of the decade besides the 2007 Pats? That is seriously the most ridiculous assertion I have ever heard regarding football. The Pats have played absolutely NOBODY this year. They have no defense. And they're going to get exposed this weekend. No team with a 31st ranked defense wins the Super Bowl. I'm sorry, but it just does not and will not ever happen.

    Oh, and I called that Giants win. A dominant defense will always beat an explosive offense. You saw what happened to the Packers. You saw what happened to the Saints. It's just a fact of football. Which is why the Ravens are going to win this weekend.

    And another thing, (there's just so many things to tear apart in this post) you say the Pats defense is inconsistent. They're ranked 31st in total defense. That's not inconsistent. That's absolutely and completely sucking at defense. I'm sorry, but let's call it what it is.

    Lastly, your defense played well against the Broncos. Let's not hype them up too much. They played a rookie Tim Tebow.

    The arrogance of Pats fans continues to astound me. Your team is not the second coming of Jesus Christ. You say the Pats are sure fire winners if their defense plays well in the next 2 games. You must not watch a lot of football. Anything can happen on any given sunday. To call any team ever a sure fire winner with 2 games left is completely ludicrous.

    I've said it time and time again on this thread, but defense wins championships. The person a couple posts above (who admitted to being new at football) even understands this concept. I don't understand why other people don't even after it's been proven over and over in the NFL.
    Keep your hair on! Jeez.

    If you read my post carefully, I'm not saying "we are the best team of the last decade bar the 07 Pats", what I mean is that we can play like that when we play our best football. However, as I said, and you pointed out, we rarely did that this year and so haven't looked like the best team going. In fairness to your post however, we haven't played the strongest schedule this year as a decent amount of the teams had losing records (and we lost to the Giants and Steelers).

    As for defense winning football games, you may look to a few examples of where it does, but there are in fact plenty of where it doesn't. That Giants win in SB42 for example: admittedly the Giants D was insanely good, restricting the Pats a lot, but it was ultimately down to an incredibly lucky and in part outstanding offensive drive to beat the Patriots. Had it not been for an incredible offensive showing at the end by the Giants, the Patriots would have won.

    2010 Season - Ravens and Jets have the best defenses. Both don't even make it to the Superbowl. The best offense wins it.

    2009 - The two best offenses meet in the Superbowl. Ultimately, the clutch QB wins, leaving Manning 1-1 (his victory coming in Superbowl 41 against possibly the best defense in the league that year).

    2008 - A good example of defense winning championships. However the Steelers played the Cardinals, who were kidding themselves even being there.

    2007 - The luckiest play in superbowl history robs possibly the best offense in history of a superbowl. OK, at the end of the day it's down to who wins on the day so nobody can't act as if it was an unfair result, because it wasn't unfair. Out of the ordinary however? Yes it was. 99% of the time that play fails and the Patriots offense single handedly performs a perfect season.




    Ultimately, yes anything can happen. Making superbowl guarantees is a silly thing to do, and I'm asking to be shown up and look a fool. However, I 100% guarantee now that if we play as well as we can, we WILL win. If we lose the title game or the superbowl (which is accept is perfectly possible) then it will be down to our own failures on the day, not any other team being outright better than us.
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    (Original post by The Patriot)
    Keep your hair on! Jeez.

    If you read my post carefully, I'm not saying "we are the best team of the last decade bar the 07 Pats", what I mean is that we can play like that when we play our best football. However, as I said, and you pointed out, we rarely did that this year and so haven't looked like the best team going. In fairness to your post however, we haven't played the strongest schedule this year as a decent amount of the teams had losing records (and we lost to the Giants and Steelers).

    As for defense winning football games, you may look to a few examples of where it does, but there are in fact plenty of where it doesn't. That Giants win in SB42 for example: admittedly the Giants D was insanely good, restricting the Pats a lot, but it was ultimately down to an incredibly lucky and in part outstanding offensive drive to beat the Patriots. Had it not been for an incredible offensive showing at the end by the Giants, the Patriots would have won.

    2010 Season - Ravens and Jets have the best defenses. Both don't even make it to the Superbowl. The best offense wins it.

    2009 - The two best offenses meet in the Superbowl. Ultimately, the clutch QB wins, leaving Manning 1-1 (his victory coming in Superbowl 41 against possibly the best defense in the league that year).

    2008 - A good example of defense winning championships. However the Steelers played the Cardinals, who were kidding themselves even being there.

    2007 - The luckiest play in superbowl history robs possibly the best offense in history of a superbowl. OK, at the end of the day it's down to who wins on the day so nobody can't act as if it was an unfair result, because it wasn't unfair. Out of the ordinary however? Yes it was. 99% of the time that play fails and the Patriots offense single handedly performs a perfect season.




    Ultimately, yes anything can happen. Making superbowl guarantees is a silly thing to do, and I'm asking to be shown up and look a fool. However, I 100% guarantee now that if we play as well as we can, we WILL win. If we lose the title game or the superbowl (which is accept is perfectly possible) then it will be down to our own failures on the day, not any other team being outright better than us.
    Haha my bad. After re-reading that, I really sounded like a ****. Didn't mean to be a complete *******. It's just that no one in the media (or on this thread) seems to be giving the Ravens a chance. Kind of frustrating considering how good this team is. And I really really hate the Patriots. I have personal experience with how much of a mother****er Bill Belichick is, so I never want him to win anything haha.

    But it should be a good game either way, and I'll be watching with a bunch of Pats fans. It's time for Suggs to Ball So Hard.
 
 
 
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