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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    Well, initially Israel didn't play along. It was roughly two weeks before Israel retaliated to the rocket fire. They made public warnings that if the rocket fire didn't stop, then retaliatory strikes would commence.

    Iron Dome is not full proof and the people still need to run to shelters.

    As the rocket fire intensified and reached dozens a day - this makes life intolerable for citizens as they're running in and out of shelters. The schools have to be closed etc.

    The economy suffers and obviously there's also a principle at stake with a moral obligation for any government to protect their citizens.

    After commencing air strikes, Israel said if rocket fire stops - they will stop.

    Israel then gave a further warning saying that if rocket fire doesn't stop, a ground invasion would be necessary. Rockets continued to pour in - up to 150 per day on some days.

    Hence ground invasion.
    Again this might be a silly question but....

    Why didn't they cut of the Palestinians water supply and prevent goods from entering the area. As I understand Israel controls both. Wouldn't that make it more likely that Palestinians would turn on HAMAS and might have prevented innocent people from dying.
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    (Original post by Radicalathiest)
    best not use them as a launching ground for terrorist attacks.

    No one to blame but Hamas
    Well wasn't expecting human empathy from the likes of you now was I.
    Why didn't the members of the media not see the rocket fire then for the entirety of the hour?!
    As I said earlier the idf has found the best methods to annex land, kill civilians, destroy cities without having to explain themselves.
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    Let's be honest - you only care because it's Israel doing it.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    Let's be honest - you only care because it's Israel doing it.
    And you would be fine with it if it were being done by, say, Pakistan?
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    Disgusting. Shows that they don't care about the civilians. Cold.

    Would be nice for a benevolent god to intervene, but nope. He's just gonna sit back and marvel at his magnificent creation.

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    Could I ask you to compartmentalise your posts? It's getting rather tedious having to copy and paste every few seconds...

    (Original post by miavdbt)
    We were discussing the demands Palestinians might make to Israel if Israel had adopted a policy of appeasement in order to be recognized and live in peace with Palestinians. Those objections would not be legitimate because they would defeat the purpose of the exercise.
    Your premise that Israel is appeasing the Palestinians in order to be recognised is incorrect. If the people of Israel want peace, they would move heaven and hell to achieve it.

    They do though. They threaten the legitimacy of the ceasefire, thus they threaten national security, as Israel might retaliate if the ceasefire is not respected.
    That's too many steps to be considered a valid reason. There is no direct link to the rocket attacks threatening Gazan national security.

    But Israel has retreated from Gaza and does not want to govern there. Egypt also operates a blockade on Gaza, does that mean that they can also go in and hold terrorists accountable?
    Doesn't want to govern =/= Doesn't govern...

    Also, I would appreciate it if you restrain yourself from constantly engaging in bouts of whataboutery? It would only detract and stagnate the discussion which I am sure, is neither one of our interest...

    ​That's a nice way to beat around the bush, I'm asking you whether you specifically believe them to be a terror organization or resistance fighters.


    I will not be drawn on my already stated and clarified comments further. You can make of that what you will....

    But burglars didn't enter their home. A legitimate state was formed. Chaos ensued.
    So there was no mass illegal immigration in the lead up to the creation of the State of Israel?
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    (Original post by lucaf)
    And you would be fine with it if it were being done by, say, Pakistan?
    I really don't care. This kind of stuff goes down all the time. It sucks to be them, but there's suddenly some big deal because it's Israel doing it.

    Be honest, all these people decrying Israel don't really give two hoots about the Palestinians - they just have this notion that they hate Israel so much that this is an open goal for them. This kind of thing went down in Syria on a much larger scale - and all there was was a bit of murmuring about how bad it was and desperately seeking for a way to blame "the West". No one cares.

    Is this bad? Yes it is. It's war. This is a region where people have been dicks to one another for thousands of years. The difference is that decrying Israel (and by extension the US) is trendy and makes people feel good. Having a go at Syria or Iran doesn't get you anywhere.
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    (Original post by Meenglishnogood)
    no actually you turned it round to the 'parties ' involved' im pointing out that im neither convinced with the process, nor the government 'elect' - given they are a registered terrorist group - so say the EU, so i dont really know why you are quoting them lol
    If the world is convinced, it doesn't matter if you were not. You are insignificant in the grander scheme of things...

    when did i say that please provide the full quote
    Gladly:

    "and i dare say then it must be your hostility to jews and the west, to ignore the fact they are infact terrorists?"

    but it would make it acceptable to you - so jsut comfirming again youd be happy for israel to do this to legitimise their ownership of the region. thanks again.
    As I have said, if Israel wanted to establish their own state, they would have to travel back in time to the start of the 20th Century, defeat the Germans, travel overland through modern day Turkey and Syria engaging in bloodbaths before they can set up camp in Palestine.

    If they then wish to conquer the region, then they can do so. Parachuting into an area through mass illegal immigration and then proceeding on a rampage against the indigenous people abusing their hospitality in the process is an "illegitimate form of conquest".

    you are making even less sense as usual here
    Whaboutery is not a valid argument, much to your chagrin.

    nope, purely islamic. hijacked by the islamists, which is why if there were some 'national' issue to talk about, palestinians wont get it heard with islamists at the helm.
    So the PA is "not Islamic"?
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    I think this guy sums it up pretty well

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHC8KC5cLs8

    P.S i do not approve the killing of civilians on either side.

    Which side do you support and why logically? please let us know if you have read up on the history of the situation or not.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    An entire neighbourhood is bombed to annihilation by the IDF in gaza, within one hour.
    With total disregard to property and lives. God only knows how many innocent lives were lost
    This is nothing other than sheer wanton destruction and state terror.
    Why are Israel doing this?
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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    Beautiful, like a scene from a movie =D
    Awesome, a great comment showing the average mentality of a Zionist.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    Let's be honest - you only care because it's Israel doing it.
    I care because they are doing this to defenseless population while having the cheek to try and hold the moral upper ground of saying they stand for peace and democracy.
    If this is peace, I wonder what counts as war in their eyes.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    so the police should let themselves be killed in droves to avoid possibly harming an innocent? We talk about palestinian deaths, but how many Israelis would need to die before they're allowed to defend themselves?

    No, that's not what's happening in the slightest - Hamas is firing on Israel, Israel is returning fire - that's how war works.
    Except prior to the rockets we have the blockade of Gaza and the full-scale occupation and settlement of the West Bank.

    Now, lets take country names out of it and describe a situation - At the end of a world war, borders are redrawn. The people who lost land in that take umbrage at that and start to make motions to take back the land that was "stolen" from them. Foreign leaders attempt to negotiate peace, but this is rejected, and groups of the people whose land was "stolen" start to launch an offensive against the country that "took their land", while calling for the eradication of an entire ethnic group and giving off fascist gestures. Which side do we feel the sympathy for - the people who feel their land was taken, or the people who were given the land and were then targeted for genocide.
    Except the borders weren't redrawn. There were efforts and negotiations to redraw borders, all of which failed, after which one side unilaterally declared its intention to redraw the borders by force of arms, having previously implied that it would have to turf a significant number of the other present ethnic group out of their desired new state to ensure a large demographic majority.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    I care because they are doing this to defenseless population while having the cheek to try and hold the moral upper ground of saying they stand for peace and democracy.
    If this is peace, I wonder what counts as war in their eyes.
    That doesn't change anything. It just looks to me that you're pleased that there is the Israel bogeyman to blame. There are tens of thousands dead in similar circumstances all over the Middle East, but it's only when Israel is firing the ammo that everyone pretends to take an interest.
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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    Israel is fighting the war on terror, yup good stuff
    Well I'm glad you are enjoying death and destruction, bloody COD generation.
    Disgusting.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    I care because they are doing this to defenseless population while having the cheek to try and hold the moral upper ground of saying they stand for peace and democracy.
    If this is peace, I wonder what counts as war in their eyes.
    The population are able to get up and walk out of there.

    They were able to not vote Hamas in - that might have been a defence !

    They were able to not dance in the streets burning USA flags in celebration of 9/11
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    Why are Israel doing this?
    To destroy tunnels was an explanation most recently, 32 down 40 to go according to an interview a few minutes ago on BBC.

    Only thing I don't get, maybe I'm being dim here, but from lots of footage it appears there's a strip of "no mans land" between Israel and Gaza? Israeli's sitting on a couch looking out with the apartment blocks in Gaza in the distance being shelled. So logically if they believe there are tunnels which connect areas in Gaza to rural locations in their territory, why not shell this area of land in-between, it would collapse the tunnels more effectively than trying to shell apartment blocks/concrete roads and hope to break through/the weight of a falling building crushes a tunnel? Several interviews seem to suggest the Israeli's are able to gather intelligence to know fairly accurately where these tunnels are that they are attempting to destroy. Since they don't have boots on the ground in Gaza, one assumes they must be finding the entrance ways on their side to know this? Thus another alternative of planting a bomb halfway down, sending an unmanned vehicle to set it if needed (it's not as if they're struggling for military spending power), seems possible.
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    (Original post by LegendKiller1)
    Maybe when Gaza's citizens stop allowing themselves to be used as a human shield by Hamas the IDF will no longer be forced to defend themselves.
    You cant just label human beings as collateral damage just because they live in a certain house. Amnesty International has also reported Israel using Palestinians as "human shields".
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    (Original post by Clip)
    That doesn't change anything. It just looks to me that you're pleased that there is the Israel bogeyman to blame. There are tens of thousands dead in similar circumstances all over the Middle East, but it's only when Israel is firing the ammo that everyone pretends to take an interest.
    Please get your head out of your back side, lest you believe your own drivel.
    two points:

    1- how do you know that people are only outraged only because israel is doing it.
    Nobody gives tow hoots about israel doing it.
    People care because it has been going on for years, people care because these are already besieged imprisoned that have no where to go and no one to turn to, they have egypt blockading them from the south and israel blocking all other sides, and the sea behind them, where are they supposed to go, into the sea?!!
    To anyone that has a heart and vision not blurred by religious and ethnic hate these are atrocities carried out on to helpless civilians and is a shame on all of our collective conscious

    2- second point is your argument '' israel can kill civilians and no one can condemn them because others are killing civilians too,?!'' great point.
    Also are people not condemning these other atrocities that are happening in the ME.
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    (Original post by miavdbt)

    But burglars didn't enter their home. A legitimate state was formed. Chaos ensued.
    Legitimate according to who?
 
 
 
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