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    (Original post by LegendKiller1)
    Maybe when Gaza's citizens stop allowing themselves to be used as a human shield by Hamas the IDF will no longer be forced to defend themselves.
    Wait a minute. Are you actually blaming the Gazan people for their own massacre?
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    (Original post by joey11223)
    To destroy tunnels was an explanation most recently, 32 down 40 to go according to an interview a few minutes ago on BBC.

    Only thing I don't get, maybe I'm being dim here, but from lots of footage it appears there's a strip of "no mans land" between Israel and Gaza? Israeli's sitting on a couch looking out with the apartment blocks in Gaza in the distance being shelled. So logically if they believe there are tunnels which connect areas in Gaza to rural locations in their territory, why not shell this area of land in-between, it would collapse the tunnels more effectively than trying to shell apartment blocks/concrete roads and hope to break through/the weight of a falling building crushes a tunnel? Several interviews seem to suggest the Israeli's are able to gather intelligence to know fairly accurately where these tunnels are that they are attempting to destroy. Since they don't have boots on the ground in Gaza, one assumes they must be finding the entrance ways on their side to know this? Thus another alternative of planting a bomb halfway down, sending an unmanned vehicle to set it if needed (it's not as if they're struggling for military spending power), seems possible.
    There's a few inaccuracies in your understanding. The tunnels are twenty meters or more deep and reinforced with concrete. Dropping bombs from above ground is ineffective without using really huge bombs which are probably not safe in the area. Israel has troops inside Gaza that are finding the entrances to the tunnels inside civilian houses in Gaza. The bombs are not aimed at the tunnels but at weapons stockpiles and rocket launching sites.
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    (Original post by Baldness)
    The population are able to get up and walk out of there.

    They were able to not vote Hamas in - that might have been a defence !

    They were able to not dance in the streets burning USA flags in celebration of 9/11
    Are you high on mushrooms buddy.
    they can get up and walk out where exactly?
    into israel? into egypt?
    Ahh, I suppose you mean they get up and walk on water into the sea.
    That wouldn't have been a defence, there would have been an excuse or two to start a war in gaza, or have you not seen how this war started?!!

    BS on the last comment too, just propaganda to try and drive public support away from palestinians.

    http://translate.google.com/translat...158625,00.html
    http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/att...ent&Itemid=115
    Ps I raise you another:
    what about the dancing jews who celebrated 9/11

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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Except the borders weren't redrawn. There were efforts and negotiations to redraw borders, all of which failed, after which one side unilaterally declared its intention to redraw the borders by force of arms, having previously implied that it would have to turf a significant number of the other present ethnic group out of their desired new state to ensure a large demographic majority.
    Well, borders were clearly redrawn when Israel was formed. That's one of the major points of forming a new country.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Please get your head out of your back side, lest you believe your own drivel.
    two points:

    1- how do you know that people are only outraged only because israel is doing it.
    Nobody gives tow hoots about israel doing it.
    People care because it has been going on for years, people care because these are already besieged imprisoned that have no where to go and no one to turn to, they have egypt blockading them from the south and israel blocking all other sides, and the sea behind them, where are they supposed to go, into the sea?!!
    To anyone that has a heart and vision not blurred by religious and ethnic hate these are atrocities carried out on to helpless civilians and is a shame on all of our collective conscious

    2- second point is your argument '' israel can kill civilians and no one can condemn them because others are killing civilians too,?!'' great point.
    Also are people not condemning these other atrocities that are happening in the ME.
    I'm sorry, I just don't care enough to repl-
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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    But its more disgusting for you if it happens in Gaza not so much elsewhere right? =)
    It is disgusting wherever it happens, what makes its especially more disgusting now is that we have people like you celebrating death.
    I do not have selective morality unlike some.:rolleyes:
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    More of these please.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    I'm sorry, I just don't care enough to repl-
    Or that you couldn't come up with coherent enough drivel to counter these valid points.
    You are failing to earn your funding, they may revoke some of the pay promised to you.
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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    pffft... whatever, lol

    Did you get my message? =) told you this is a war against terrorism, not Islam
    Never said it was a war against islam, it is a war against civilians.
    Don't be sad that I caught u out on your selective morality.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Well, borders were clearly redrawn when Israel was formed. That's one of the major points of forming a new country.


    Does it cover the West Bank? The settlement building there is legal then?
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    (Original post by UniOfLife)
    There's a few inaccuracies in your understanding. The tunnels are twenty meters or more deep and reinforced with concrete. Dropping bombs from above ground is ineffective without using really huge bombs which are probably not safe in the area. Israel has troops inside Gaza that are finding the entrances to the tunnels inside civilian houses in Gaza. The bombs are not aimed at the tunnels but at weapons stockpiles and rocket launching sites.
    Ah okay, I think whomever they were interviewing was speaking slightly inaccurately then as he was seeming to say the actual shelling was related to collapsing tunnels.

    So Israeli troops are actually going around inside Gaza now? If so would it not be more simplistic to simply increase a ground offensive with less shelling? I appreciate Israel would suffer higher military causalities, but this is practically a war, and surely that's a more moral action, from an outsiders point of view, than shelling whole streets. Even if the intent is to avoid civilians, the density of the area really makes it unavoidable, especially when "safe" areas such as UN buildings are not guaranteed secure since if Hamas fire a projectile from across the road say, Israel will reply and shells are not pin point. It's too bad there's so little land available, you could try evacuating civilians to another zone, but there is no such place realistically.
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    1- how do you know that people are only outraged only because israel is doing it.
    Nobody gives tow hoots about israel doing it.
    So why don't they complain about the rest of the ME? Why don't they complain about NK? Why don't they complain about any of the many,many African countries? Why don't they complain about Burma? Why don't they complain about Tibet?

    None of those get the coverage or the popular acclaim. Each of those is seeing death and destruction on a similar scale.

    Until an equal outcry is made about each, these people, including you, are merely hypocrites.


    At least I'm honest with my antipathy for all of it. You're the one being selective.
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    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Well, borders were clearly redrawn when Israel was formed. That's one of the major points of forming a new country.
    Israel's 'Declaration of Independence' did not specify any borders. Israel had nothing that could be considered defined territorial boundaries until the armistice lines were agreed in 1949.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    um Yes, it's not even much of a secret because they issue press releases...

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0726/633213-gaza-israel/




    doesn't anyone else wonder what hamas thinks it's got to gain by firing rockets into it's massively more mighty neighbor? could it be in anyway to provoke counter attacks upon it's human shielded rocket positions in an attempt to engage sympathy?
    I for one don't really believe in this human shield nonsense the Israeli's spew. What would you suppose Hamas do? Sit back whilst Israel arrest Palestinians without charge, kill innocents without justification and continue to build illegal settlements? The international community have made it very clear that they're not going to do anything to stop Israel from doing so, so why shouldn't Hamas retaliate? I think they have every right too. I don't think Hamas are trying to gain sympathy, but rather Israel are doing whatever they can to encite violence from Hamas so when Hamas retaliates they can unproportionately destroy Gaza and it's civilians.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    So why don't they complain about the rest of the ME? Why don't they complain about NK? Why don't they complain about any of the many,many African countries? Why don't they complain about Burma? Why don't they complain about Tibet?

    None of those get the coverage or the popular acclaim. Each of those is seeing death and destruction on a similar scale.

    Until an equal outcry is made about each, these people, including you, are merely hypocrites.
    Again two points:

    1-same questions goes to the west, does the west ''complain'' equally about all these events?! why do we no hear about burma, the killings in darfur, have you forgotten about darfur, well the world seems to have forgotten while people are still dying jut like they were dying before, or did it get boring?!!
    what about ukraine, no one seems to ever cover that. Where are the condemnations and campaigns for the needless killing of over 200 passengers in a civilian airline, all we hear is about russia and the rockets nobody seems to care much about the victims!!!

    2-How do you know muslims do not care about these events ? have you spoken to muslims watched their media or publications to see that they do not care about these issues?!
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    The Zionist is using covert tactics, now. They inform the civilians of the 40% of Gaza that it is a no-go zone, and they shouldn't return to it. Its clearly a step in the process of full invasion, ensuring an easy take over of Gaza - that is what some hard liners in the Zionist fortress is calling for.

    Its pretty sad and frustrating to see the Zionists using war rooms and paid hasbara online propagandists to create a false public opinion picture in social media. Its an unethical practice. BBC or alJazeera should employ a programme discussing about the ethics of online warfare.

    The firing of rockets into Israel has to be stopped, but it won't be until Israel ends its siege and occupation. What Hamas and the Islamic Jihad should do is to target the damn wall; attack and destroy this apartheid symbol. And then let the flood of refugees go INTO southern Israel. You know what happens then
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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    What makes you think that? Civilians are known to die in any war so what is it about this war that makes you think twice?...... 3,100 airstrikes and only 800 civilians.... lol. Don't get me wrong, I dont care about Gazans and would not hesitate to give bigger numbers, but these are the facts =) Its a low number especially for somewhere so densely populated.
    If you didn't really care, you would give the number reported as over 1200 dead and rising.
    You expose your bias:rolleyes: and that you do actually care, not in a humanitarian way, of course not far for you to have human empathy, but rather playing down the number of causalities.
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    (Original post by joey11223)
    Ah okay, I think whomever they were interviewing was speaking slightly inaccurately then as he was seeming to say the actual shelling was related to collapsing tunnels.

    So Israeli troops are actually going around inside Gaza now? If so would it not be more simplistic to simply increase a ground offensive with less shelling? I appreciate Israel would suffer higher military causalities, but this is practically a war, and surely that's a more moral action, from an outsiders point of view, than shelling whole streets. Even if the intent is to avoid civilians, the density of the area really makes it unavoidable, especially when "safe" areas such as UN buildings are not guaranteed secure since if Hamas fire a projectile from across the road say, Israel will reply and shells are not pin point. It's too bad there's so little land available, you could try evacuating civilians to another zone, but there is no such place realistically.
    I think you answered your question. Israel uses air strikes and shells against rocket launching sites. Trying to use soldiers against such sites is not feasible. The Israeli soldiers are operating mostly in areas that are cleared of civilians and relatively "safe" for them to operate. The rockets are being launched from other areas. If Israeli soldiers tried to get to them (apart from taking too long) they would need to fight through large areas which would inevitably result in far more civilian deaths.
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    Russia is to the Donetsch (how do you spell that) Republic like the US is to Israel.

    They both have killed innocent civilians.

    So why sanctions only to Russia?!
 
 
 
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