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A Basic Men's Guide to Success with Women Watch

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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    You a page back-

    "Most people don't THINK about what makes them attractive at all, they just are. I certainly never did, its only now I've looked back and asked "why WAS I so successful compared to a lot of my friends" that I've realised the things that confident sociable guys naturally do"

    A lot of people lie on the internet, you could be full of it, but maybe you are just naturally good with women, some people are, well done, but there's no need to be so up yourself to guys who aren't as lucky as you.

    To be clear, when I first started trying to hit on girls, I was basically following your advice, and it DID NOT WORK. So I know, in the way David Hume and the sceptics say the only way we can know things, that your advice is wrong.

    To be fair, some of these PUAs have been on a tv show where they've shown how they can pull women, and there are lots of referrals of people who've seen them succeed, so they clearly do know what they're talking about.

    I didn't read The Game, but I read Mystery Method. It isn't like I put in a huge amount of effort, it took me a couple of hours to read on the internet, some parts I disagreed with (I'm not going to walk around with a load of photos all the time), some I don't think work for me, some seemed more American, but a lot of the basics made sense to me, especially the psychology aspect.
    You've read all the relationship advice I've given, all 2100+ posts?

    I'm sure we could sort you out, but first you would need to change you attitude otherwise we'd be wasting our time. No-one who goes out with the mindset that pulling is some kind of battleground between the forces of men and women is ever going to be successful. You need to demonstrate you've understood this before I'd be willing to actually give you more specific advice.
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    (Original post by dgeorge)
    Funny enough, you seem to be missing the point....

    YOU don't know what YOU do because you never consciously learned it. That doesn't mean that you aren't acting in a particular way that is beneficial to you, and that you can't teach it to others. It simply means that YOU do not understand.
    I've already explained this. I didn't consciously think about it at the time, but I have carefully considered it at my leisure since and I understand exactly what it was that enabled me to be so successful.

    I have a LTR now, I don't really need these skills, in fact its a bit of a pain to be constantly hit on by women whenever I go out. I'm willing to share my advice, but you have to demonstrate at least a basic level of understanding first. Any guy that still has such a fundamental misunderstanding of women and dating that they don't see straight through PUA is beyond help.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    I've already explained this. I didn't consciously think about it at the time, but I have carefully considered it at my leisure since and I understand exactly what it was that enabled me to be so successful.

    I have a LTR now, I don't really need these skills, in fact its a bit of a pain to be constantly hit on by women whenever I go out. I'm willing to share my advice, but you have to demonstrate at least a basic level of understanding first. Any guy that still has such a fundamental misunderstanding of women and dating that they don't see straight through PUA is beyond help.
    I keep pointing out to you most of the advice you have given is what I've already picked up, due in large part to the PUA community.

    Unless you have something radically different from what you've been mentioning (which I highly doubt) then I doubt you would teach me much

    I don't see why it would be a pain to be constantly hit on. Can't you simply decide to not be so darned attractive?
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    (Original post by dgeorge)
    I keep pointing out to you most of the advice you have given is what I've already picked up, due in large part to the PUA community.

    Unless you have something radically different from what you've been mentioning (which I highly doubt) then I doubt you would teach me much

    I don't see why it would be a pain to be constantly hit on. Can't you simply decide to not be so darned attractive?
    Unless you are more specific about what advice this is, I have no way of knowing what exactly we're talking about.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    You've read all the relationship advice I've given, all 2100+ posts?

    I'm sure we could sort you out, but first you would need to change you attitude otherwise we'd be wasting our time. No-one who goes out with the mindset that pulling is some kind of battleground between the forces of men and women is ever going to be successful. You need to demonstrate you've understood this before I'd be willing to actually give you more specific advice.
    No, but judging by this thread you don't really have any.

    Yeah, I'm now getting the impression that you are some frustrated virgin teenager. I've been with my lovely girlfriend for eighteen months. Sorry mate.
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    Common sense stuff. Send a picture of yourself op. if you want a fan base you need to follow your own advice lol
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    No, but judging by this thread you don't really have any.

    Yeah, I'm now getting the impression that you are some frustrated virgin teenager. I've been with my lovely girlfriend for eighteen months. Sorry mate.
    lol. Come back to the relationships forum once you actually have something to offer other than childish insults.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    No, but judging by this thread you don't really have any.

    Yeah, I'm now getting the impression that you are some frustrated virgin teenager. I've been with my lovely girlfriend for eighteen months. Sorry mate.
    You're 21, you've been with your girlfriend since you were 18, so assuming you're not cheating on her, you have exactly how many years experience of adult dating? Zero years? Maybe a few months?

    No wonder you don't know what you're talking about :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    lol. Come back to the relationships forum once you actually have something to offer other than childish insults.
    Look, I was just reading another thread, cypher's one about pulling, and it is now clear you are absolutely obsessed with PUAs, and how they are the most terrible and pathetic thing ever. Why?

    I wasn't confident with girls, I learnt a couple of little things to help me with the initial stage of meeting them, and I found a long term girlfriend who I'm really happy with. So from my perspective, you saying it never works is clearly nonsense. Thus I'm questioning your motives.

    I think my advice is valid because, like a lot of people on here seeking advice, I struggled with women when I was a teenager, but now I've improved a lot and got to a place where I am happy. If, as you say, this all came totally naturally to you, I don't really see what advice you can give anyone who is having problems.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    You're 21, you've been with your girlfriend since you were 18, so assuming you're not cheating on her, you have exactly how many years experience of adult dating? Zero years? Maybe a few months?

    No wonder you don't know what you're talking about :facepalm2:
    I'm 21. I've been with her 18 months. Have I been with her since I was 18? Your maths is as good as your logic...
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    Look, I was just reading another thread, cypher's one about pulling, and it is now clear you are absolutely obsessed with PUAs, and how they are the most terrible and pathetic thing ever. Why?

    I wasn't confident with girls, I learnt a couple of little things to help me with the initial stage of meeting them, and I found a long term girlfriend who I'm really happy with. So from my perspective, you saying it never works is clearly nonsense. Thus I'm questioning your motives.

    I think my advice is valid because, like a lot of people on here seeking advice, I struggled with women when I was a teenager, but now I've improved a lot and got to a place where I am happy. If, as you say, this all came totally naturally to you, I don't really see what advice you can give anyone who is having problems.
    Because it didn't come naturally to me when I was 16 either. But I learnt to socialise effectively the old fashioned way, by going out and talking to people and having fun. Not by going on practice missions to the mall in which I treat socialising as some kind of LARP.

    PUA is a terrible misogynistic mindset that preys on the vulnerable and produces sad, lonely, bitter men who can't understand why objectifying women has not brought them happiness. The more I can do to save people from this fate, the better.

    As I say, occasionally some pieces of PUA advice make sense, in a "reinventing the wheel" kind of fashion. Its not teasing, its "negging" Its not flirting, its "kinoing" etc etc.

    That in no way makes up for the repulsive sexist mindset it instills in its adherrents.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    PUA is a terrible misogynistic mindset that preys on the vulnerable and produces sad, lonely, bitter men who can't understand why objectifying women has not brought them happiness. .


    So very, very true.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Because it didn't come naturally to me when I was 16 either. But I learnt to socialise effectively the old fashioned way, by going out and talking to people and having fun. Not by going on practice missions to the mall in which I treat socialising as some kind of LARP.

    PUA is a terrible misogynistic mindset that preys on the vulnerable and produces sad, lonely, bitter men who can't understand why objectifying women has not brought them happiness. The more I can do to save people from this fate, the better.

    As I say, occasionally some pieces of PUA advice make sense, in a "reinventing the wheel" kind of fashion. Its not teasing, its "negging" Its not flirting, its "kinoing" etc etc.

    That in no way makes up for the repulsive sexist mindset it instills in its adherrents.
    See, the thing is I never found socialising difficult generally, it was only chatting up girls. I've never had a problem meeting new people or anything- I didn't have to learn to socialise. So just socialising more didn't help me. I didn't go on "practise missions" either, but if it helps someone, I'm not going to be an ******** to them.

    And do you have any evidence for that statement? It just sounds like you don't like the practise of PUA, so you have decided it doesn't work, like a lot of girls do. As I say, from my own, personal experience, I know it can help. Do you know any men who are sad, bitter and lonely because of PUA? Be honest.

    There's some truth to that, but you've got to understand the psychology of the insecure male. By having some sort of plan that he thinks is golden, it improves his confidence, and I think the one thing we all agree upon that helps you with relationships.

    See, it is unclear whether your objection is primarily moral or success based. It is a bit convenient to claim it is both.

    I don't think there's anything really sexist about the general idea, considering it is obviously aimed at young men who are trying to get with girls anyway, it isn't trying to persuade you to live a certain way, it is just helping people to live that lifestyle more successfully. There are things within it that I've thought are creepy, like using PUA ideas on your girlfriend- as far as I can see, that just shouldn't be necessary, and it is weird be to using tactics in your everyday life. So PUA isn't inherently sexist, but there is a fair amount of sexism within it.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Unless you are more specific about what advice this is, I have no way of knowing what exactly we're talking about.
    There are some PUA's who do all that stuff, but following from certain methods, the emphasis is on "inner game" instead of techniques.

    ALL "PUA's" stress that what is important are things such as confidence, being an interesting person with MORE going for them than being good at picking up women, having hobbies, physical activities, being funny, and generally being a good person.

    They stress that the "tips and techniques" that you seem to keep prattling on about (but seem to have little idea on what they actually are) such as ways to interpret body language, how to physically carry yourself, how to maintain eye contact, what type of language to use, how to become an engaging story teller, how to be funny etc are all in the effort to build oneself up and give yourself a better shot. All of these are explained.

    They are not "designed" to fool anyone, or objectify anyone, because they are simply based on NORMAL behaviour that not everyone may notice which make men better with social interactions.

    At the end of the day, PUA literature is designed to change the MINDSET of a person, and their attitudes and the way they view male female relationship

    Sure, there is a LOT of crap in PUA literature, there is some advice that doesn't always help, and there is some advice that may actually be counter productive. But there is also lots of good advice. I say to people, take everything that is said with a grain of salt, think and use your own intuition. Not everything will work, but you can bet that there are some things that do.

    Of course, you're not going to listen. You're probably going to go into explaining why everything that I've spoken about that makes sense are somehow "exceptions" to the rule, despite you not really having a good grasp on what the rules are. You've already formed your own opinion, and thus everything I say is going to be put into a filter in your mind to come out to the exact conclusion that you've already reached. Therefore, there really isn't much of a point arguing with you further.
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    (Original post by rlw31)
    *
    You're from Montserrat I see....hmmm interesting, ever been over on this side then?
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    Woops
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    I've already explained in great detail the problems with pick up, I'm not going to repeat myself. If you don't agree, knock yourselves out.

    PUA = completely the wrong attitude + a load of terrible counter-productive advice + a sprinkling of statements of the bleeding obvious.


    (Original post by dgeorge)
    There are some PUA's who do all that stuff, but following from certain methods, the emphasis is on "inner game" instead of techniques.

    ALL "PUA's" stress that what is important are things such as confidence, being an interesting person with MORE going for them than being good at picking up women, having hobbies, physical activities, being funny, and generally being a good person.

    They stress that the "tips and techniques" that you seem to keep prattling on about (but seem to have little idea on what they actually are) such as ways to interpret body language, how to physically carry yourself, how to maintain eye contact, what type of language to use, how to become an engaging story teller, how to be funny etc are all in the effort to build oneself up and give yourself a better shot. All of these are explained.

    They are not "designed" to fool anyone, or objectify anyone, because they are simply based on NORMAL behaviour that not everyone may notice which make men better with social interactions.

    At the end of the day, PUA literature is designed to change the MINDSET of a person, and their attitudes and the way they view male female relationship

    Sure, there is a LOT of crap in PUA literature, there is some advice that doesn't always help, and there is some advice that may actually be counter productive. But there is also lots of good advice. I say to people, take everything that is said with a grain of salt, think and use your own intuition. Not everything will work, but you can bet that there are some things that do.

    Of course, you're not going to listen. You're probably going to go into explaining why everything that I've spoken about that makes sense are somehow "exceptions" to the rule, despite you not really having a good grasp on what the rules are. You've already formed your own opinion, and thus everything I say is going to be put into a filter in your mind to come out to the exact conclusion that you've already reached. Therefore, there really isn't much of a point arguing with you further.
    Go on then, give us some PUA advice that isn't

    a) stating the obvious, advice that you could get anywhere
    b) full of crap
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    I've already explained in great detail the problems with pick up, I'm not going to repeat myself. If you don't agree, knock yourselves out.
    You are still ignoring the most important point here- I KNOW this works, because I've seen it work. So have lots of other people here.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    You are still ignoring the most important point here- I KNOW this works, because I've seen it work. So have lots of other people here.
    WHAT have you seen work?

    I've seen people hit the bullseye with their eyes shut. Doesn't make it a good idea in a darts tournament.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    WHAT have you seen work?

    I've seen people hit the bullseye with their eyes shut. Doesn't make it a good idea in a darts tournament.
    PUA tactics. One of my mates studied The Mystery Method, and has pulled a lot of fit girls, and trust me, it isn't his stunning good looks or his amazing personality. So I thought I'd have a look, I picked a few things up, and it helped me too.

    And your only reason for this is that it must all just be a huge coincidence?
 
 
 
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