Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
    That's rather nonsensical. Surely it should be the other way round?OTE]
    How is that nonsensical? How will I differentiate between Turkish Cypriots and mainland Turks if I call them both Turks?

    Well I hate them because I dislike a lot of things about them, and I imagine you're the same. The difference is that I'm open and honest, whereas you prefer to hide in a closet.
    I don't have a reason to 'hide in my closet'. I don't hate them. I can't say that I truly 'hate' a race because I dislike some things about them.

    No, I don't drink coffee. Not ever.
    Fine then.
    • Offline

      21
      (Original post by OceanSoul)
      How is that nonsensical? How will I differentiate between Turkish Cypriots and mainland Turks if I call them both Turks?
      That wasn't my point. My point was that if either of them deserve the title of 'Turks', without inverted commas, it would be the people who are actually from Turkey.

      (Original post by OceanSoul)
      I don't have a reason to 'hide in my closet'. I don't hate them. I can't say that I truly 'hate' a race because I dislike some things about them.
      You're a 'race' now are you?
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
      That wasn't my point. My point was that if either of them deserve the title of 'Turks', without inverted commas, it would be the people who are actually from Turkey.
      Well, I never meant to give the impression that I don't find mainland Turks actual Turks in the first place.

      You're a 'race' now are you?
      Maybe race wasn't the right word but T. Cypriots happen to be different from Turks from Turkey at least in some ways - unless you would like to think of T. Cypriots, whom you hate, as the same as you.
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
      There's been a few protests (and more to come) by Turkish Cypriot trade unionists and members of left wing parties against Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's 'insults.' The tension stems from Cypriot's 'fear' towards mainland Turks that are increasingly settling to the island and the Cypriot's reluctance to accept the austerity package proposed by Turkey (40% salary cuts on its bloated civil service, selling off the telecoms and electricity providers and to privatise a university) that could save the country from bankruptcy.
      I've been reading the conversation further and understand a little better now. Thank you HWB.
      Offline

      1
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by OceanSoul)
      I don't find that a lot of the T. Cypriot politicians have the right mind set? Especially our current president, I mean, ain't he representative? But I guess we could hope that they could advance if Turkey ever leaves.
      Define what you mean by "mindset" we've had politicians like Denktas who fought for our part of the island to get internationally recognised and get the embargoes lifted thats trying to improve our situation in a sense is it not? if everyone keeps closing every door in your face what can you do? you speak of advancing yet you do not consider the amount of sanctions and other restrictions we have on us.

      Or what about Talat trying to negotiate the unification of the island? for you thats the right "mindset" I suppose, for me its not...


      No, no - I never think of it as 'Garasakallar bizi istemez'. And note that I didn't mean all Turks, but the majority yes. Watch this video and tell me what you think. At least the first 5 minutes. One of the men, who is a Turk who served as a commander here is literally saying there's been an increase in criminality. I'm not saying this whole issue has to do with Turks, I'm more like in the middle. But I like how it's talked about in this video.

      Theres only what 150,000 Turkish cypriots?....when you add another 100,000 people obviously crime will increase :rolleyes: greater population = more crimes being committed = more policing needed. It's got nothing to do with race, if you added another 1m people to this countries population would that not increase the likelihood of crime?



      Well, they were allowed to be a part of the EU for a reason in the first place I suppose. Edit: And what? Greece has no economy, they aren't helping out Southern Cyprus.
      Of course they are.....thats why I said stop that trade and see how hard they get hit :rolleyes:

      Exports - partners: Greek Cypriot area: Greece 21.1%, UK 14.3%, Germany 6.6
      Offline

      15
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by OceanSoul)
      Maybe race wasn't the right word but T. Cypriots happen to be different from Turks from Turkey at least in some ways - unless you would like to think of T. Cypriots, whom you hate, as the same as you.
      Disgusting.

      :getmecoat:
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
      Disgusting.

      :getmecoat:
      Why is that disgusting? Since the Ottoman empire, T. Cypriots mixed a lot with Greek Cypriots. There's a difference between Turks and Turkish Cypriots. If you think they are the same, that's like saying Greeks are the same as Greek Cypriots because some centuries ago Greeks were living in this island before the Ottomans took over. We are closer to Turks than Greek Cypriots are to Greeks but I still don't see us as the 'same'.
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by ChaoticSkills)
      -
      I see what you're saying. Let's see where we'll get to in the future.
      Offline

      15
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by OceanSoul)
      Why is that disgusting? Since the Ottoman empire, T. Cypriots mixed a lot with Greek Cypriots. There's a difference between Turks and Turkish Cypriots. If you think they are the same, that's like saying Greeks are the same as Greek Cypriots because some centuries ago Greeks were living in this island before the Ottomans took over. We are closer to Turks than Greek Cypriots are to Greeks but I still don't see us as the 'same'.
      Yes there are many differences between Turks from Cyprus and those from Turkey, just as there are also many differences between say Turks living in Istanbul with Turks living in Mardin. Pointing out the differences between difference ‘races’ as you put it is fine because I actually appreciate that the human population is not some clump of plasticine, but you seem incredibly narrow-minded in the way you go about it with regards to the Turkish population, especially when you wrote this:

      Since the Ottoman empire, T. Cypriots mixed a lot with Greek Cypriots
      …If there was ever a time Turks significantly mixed with Greeks, it was before and during the Ottoman Empire, and any mixing since then is virtually nullified in comparison to this. Both Cypriots and Turks from Turkey belong to the Western Oghuzes. Throughout history, Turkish people moved to areas inhabited by Greeks and so the mixing was inevitable and it’s one of the main reasons as to why a lot of Turkish people look European. The whole Turkish population is so mixed: we have people who have descended from Celts, Greeks, Balkans, Mongolians etc… which why when considering this diversity in the population, there is virtually no significant net difference in ethnicity between islanders and mainlanders. We are of the same race.
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
      …If there was ever a time Turks significantly mixed with Greeks, it was before and during the Ottoman Empire, and any mixing since then is virtually nullified in comparison to this. Both Cypriots and Turks from Turkey belong to the Western Oghuzes. Throughout history.... herpy derp derp.
      I meant during the Ottoman Empire. Well, I've never come across a Turkish Cypriot who regards themselves as the same nationality as a Turk (from Turkey) and says 'I'm Turkish' rather than 'Cypriot/Turkish Cypriot'. We've been living in Cyprus for quite a few centuries, I think that pretty much means it's okay to regard ourselves as Cypriots rather than mainland Turks.
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      Errors in the Cypruss Policy-Ahmet Nuri Yurdusev

      There is a news website I read which is actually a Turkish news site, but offers the news in English. Its called Today's Zaman. I came across this article about what is just an opinion of the author, about the "Cypruss Policy"(?) posted today, so maybe something related to what the current discussion is. degil mi?

      I read the article and now understand some of the concerns here if its on the same track. Looks like something was going down? I wanted to share but also say I kind of agree about one of the points of the article, about changing the priority of the 3 parameters outlined in the policy, though I am not sure if my opinion would count there as I am just a foreigner.

      Does that make me pro or anti ?:confused: Do you think it should be re-ordered?
      Offline

      15
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by OceanSoul)
      [COLOR="Purple"]I meant during the Ottoman Empire. Well, I've never come across a Turkish Cypriot who regards themselves as the same nationality as a Turk (from Turkey) and says 'I'm Turkish' rather than 'Cypriot/Turkish Cypriot'. We've been living in Cyprus for quite a few centuries, I think that pretty much means it's okay to regard ourselves as Cypriots rather than mainland Turks.[/COLOR]
      :doh: Come back to me once you learn the difference between 'race' and 'nationality'.
      Offline

      0
      ReputationRep:
      (Original post by hollywoodbudgie)
      :doh: Come back to me once you learn the difference between 'race' and 'nationality'.
      Other than a difference in nationality, the ethnic origin of T. Cypriots being from Turkey doesn't mean they can not consider themselves a different race by now. Sorry if you're 'disgusted' by that. Think whatever you like, the majority of the Turkish Cypriots whom at least I know & whom I've asked regard themselves as a different race. That's not insulting Turkey!
      • Offline

        21
        (Original post by OceanSoul)
        Other than a difference in nationality, the ethnic origin of T. Cypriots being from Turkey doesn't mean they can not consider themselves a different race by now. Sorry if you're 'disgusted' by that. Think whatever you like, the majority of the Turkish Cypriots whom at least I know & whom I've asked regard themselves as a different race. That's not insulting Turkey!
        Why are you grouping the Turks of Turkey into a race, and then comparing them to Turkish Cypriots? Turkey is one of the most ethnically diverse places on the planet. Even a single region, never mind the entire country, say Sivas, has very high levels of ethnic diversity. That, I believe, is your error.

        Thus your argument is a complete fallacy and to be quite frank, disrespectful.
        Offline

        0
        ReputationRep:
        (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
        Why are you grouping the Turks of Turkey into a race, and then comparing them to Turkish Cypriots? Turkey is one of the most ethnically diverse places on the planet. Even a single region, never mind the entire country, say Sivas, has very high levels of ethnic diversity. That, I believe, is your error.

        Thus your argument is a complete fallacy and to be quite frank, disrespectful.
        What?............ We're talking about Turks and Turkish Cypriots here. Not other ethnic groups in Turkey or Cyprus. I think you're just too 'delicate' - I don't get why you guys got offended haha.
        • Offline

          21
          (Original post by OceanSoul)
          What?............ We're talking about Turks and Turkish Cypriots here. Not other ethnic groups in Turkey or Cyprus. I think you're just too 'delicate' - I don't get why you guys got offended haha.
          That's my point. You can't compare Turks and Turkish Cypriots in terms of race. Because you cannot group either into a race. Both are ethnically diverse within themselves, especially Turkey.
          Offline

          0
          ReputationRep:
          As a Cypriot living in Cyprus for the majority of my life, the whole mentality of Cypriots was that, Turkish Cypriots are our "enemies" and Greek Cypriots are our "friends". This was because Cypriots,( Not Turkish or Greek, Cypriots from Cyprus), thought that just because they were half Turkish, that they automatically assumed that they were Turkish people, which is in fact very wrong. Just for the reason that they invaded Cyprus and should all pay, when really, these people were stuck in the middle. Take any 2 countries from example, and think if 1 invaded the other and you were both nationalities and the country that was invaded, the people from there accusing you of being part of the invading country. Where's the fairness in that?

          You cant say Greek Cypriots are any better as they hardly helped Cyprus, and let alone helping us as they have their own economic problems at the moment.

          Anyway, to be honest, some Turkish Cypriots tend to "decide" or have a preference to what nationality they want to say they are, when really they are half half. While others admit they are both and alternate between the north and south consistently whether its for commitments or other reasons.

          You cannot escape the corrupted mentality of the youngsters nowadays. But fortunately there's people who think twice and questions and don't hate just because they were raised to.
          Offline

          0
          ReputationRep:
          (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
          That's my point. You can't compare Turks and Turkish Cypriots in terms of race. Because you cannot group either into a race. Both are ethnically diverse within themselves, especially Turkey.
          Your previous comment did not make much sense. It's one thing being ethnically diverse, which makes an individual a mixed race, i.e. moi, in an area, and it's one thing saying a Turkish person is different from a Turkish Cypriot. I wasn't saying EVERY SINGLE PERSON in Turkey and Cyprus are a complete race.:confused:

          You might be referring to the origin though. Well, that was still centuries ago. For example, I can't consider myself Indian because my great great great great grandfather was. If a person has Turkish grandparents, and parents, they are Turkish. You don't consider Turks a race?
          • Offline

            21
            (Original post by OceanSoul)
            Your previous comment did not make much sense. It's one thing being ethnically diverse, which makes an individual a mixed race, i.e. moi, in an area, and it's one thing saying a Turkish person is different from a Turkish Cypriot. I wasn't saying EVERY SINGLE PERSON in Turkey and Cyprus are a complete race.
            You can't say that though, since a Turkish person is also different from other Turkish people, and likewise for Turkish Cypriots. Thus you cannot compare Turks and Turkish Cypriots in terms of race.


            (Original post by OceanSoul)
            You might be referring to the origin though. Well, that was still centuries ago.
            It's not 'centuries' ago. The largest ethnic migrations happened during the Ataturk era. Assuming we can call the Ottomans as 'Turks', then we can say that during that period Christian Turks were moved to places like Greece, Bulgaria and the like, and Muslim Greeks/Bulgarians, etc. were moved to Turkey and became what we now call 'Turks'. I hope you understood that as I can't be bothered to expand on it.

            (Original post by OceanSoul)
            For example, I can't consider myself Indian because my great great great great grandfather was.
            That doesn't make sense. For most people, it would just be a single 'great great grandfather', but much of their family. Very few 'Turks' are actually Turkish in the ethnic sense.

            (Original post by OceanSoul)
            If a person has Turkish grandparents, and parents, they are Turkish. You don't consider Turks a race?
            You don't seem to know the meaning of the word 'Turk'. The Turkish race 'died out' a long time ago due to the Ottoman policy of everyone becoming part of the 'millet' provided they were Muslim.

            Actual Turks bear a much closer resemble to Mongols, as we are somewhat related to them. Here are some pictures, in case you understand them easier than words.

            http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...IQqoYFOYdg&t=1

            http://tinypic.com/jsj6nr.jpg

            http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0OkjIaCdR7k/Sl...%20Warrior.jpg

            The modern classification of 'Turk' has nothing to do with ethnicity. It's about linguistic and cultural heritage now. It's not just a question of a great grandfather being an Indian (which would probably mean you're a gypsy in Turkey anyway), but of having a Greek grandmother, an Armenian one too, a Georgian grandfather, an Arab one too, an Assyrian great grandfather, a Persian one too....and somewhere among that, if you're really lucky, there might be a bit of Turk in you too.
            Offline

            0
            ReputationRep:
            (Original post by RamocitoMorales)
            You can't say that though, since a Turkish person is also different from other Turkish people, and likewise for Turkish Cypriots. Thus you cannot compare Turks and Turkish Cypriots in terms of race.




            It's not 'centuries' ago. The largest ethnic migrations happened during the Ataturk era. Assuming we can call the Ottomans as 'Turks', then we can say that during that period Christian Turks were moved to places like Greece, Bulgaria and the like, and Muslim Greeks/Bulgarians, etc. were moved to Turkey and became what we now call 'Turks'. I hope you understood that as I can't be bothered to expand on it.



            That doesn't make sense. For most people, it would just be a single 'great great grandfather', but much of their family. Very few 'Turks' are actually Turkish in the ethnic sense.



            You don't seem to know the meaning of the word 'Turk'. The Turkish race 'died out' a long time ago due to the Ottoman policy of everyone becoming part of the 'millet' provided they were Muslim.

            Actual Turks bear a much closer resemble to Mongols, as we are somewhat related to them. Here are some pictures, in case you understand them easier than words.

            http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...IQqoYFOYdg&t=1

            http://tinypic.com/jsj6nr.jpg

            http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0OkjIaCdR7k/Sl...%20Warrior.jpg

            The modern classification of 'Turk' has nothing to do with ethnicity. It's about linguistic and cultural heritage now. It's not just a question of a great grandfather being an Indian (which would probably mean you're a gypsy in Turkey anyway), but of having a Greek grandmother, an Armenian one too, a Georgian grandfather, an Arab one too, an Assyrian great grandfather, a Persian one too....and somewhere among that, if you're really lucky, there might be a bit of Turk in you too.
            Okay, j'ai compris forget the word race. In terms of a 'group of people' in a certain area (?) I would consider Turks and Turkish Cypriots different.
           
           
           
        • See more of what you like on The Student Room

          You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

        • Poll
          Will you be richer or poorer than your parents?
          Useful resources
          US study forum

          Accommodation profiles:

          iQ Student Accommodation

          iQ Student Accommodation

          Great value student rooms in city centre locations all across the UK


          X1 Lettings

          X1 Lettings

          Luxury student accommodation in Liverpool & Manchester.


          Collegiate Accommodation

          Collegiate Accommodation

          "This is student living. Just better."


          Scape Student Living

          Study Inn

          Providing stunning high quality, boutique student accommodation throughout the UK


          The Student Housing Company

          The Student Housing Company

          Award-winning student accommodation - voted by 22,000 students.

          Groups associated with this forum:

          View associated groups
        • See more of what you like on The Student Room

          You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

        • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

          Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

          Quick reply
          Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.