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Hylean
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#321
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#321
Lord of the Rings is an amazing book, though.
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Pandora.
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#322
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#322
(Original post by joanna-eve)
I thought the Hobbit would be really hard because I read it afterwards but was pleasantly surprised...it kind of makes you think if he could write in such an easy way to understand then WHY DIDN'T HE?!?! :teehee: And I love how the Hobbit has the ring in! Have you read any other Austen apart from P&P?
Dr Zhivago won Pasternak the Nobel Prize for Literature :zomg:
No, but I really want to. I've heard Persuasion is brilliant, and Northanger Abbey appeals. The only one I've not-so-great things about is Mansfield Park, but of course I like to form my own opinion . Which Austne novels have you read?
(Original post by Hylean)
Lord of the Rings is an amazing book, though.
Indeed. It took me a while to get into it, but it is so so worth it.
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Three Mile Sprint
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#323
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#323
(Original post by imomo16)
There's a distinction between faith and religion. I have faith in the Buddha, but I don't feel part of a religion, and I still count myself as an atheist as well as a Buddhist. It's a really tricky question because in my view nobody believes in nothing. Everyone has faith in something... for some it might be Jesus or money or their ego, for me it happens to be universal Buddha-nature. So to distinguish between those that have faith and those who don't feels like a false dichotomy.

The more "religious" aspects of Buddhism like the Devas, the Maitreya Buddha, even to some extent Nirvana and Karma.. I struggle with them and they sit uneasily with my atheism. I am very ignorant, they are important parts of Buddhist doctrine, and so I don't dismiss them outright, but there is a conflict. I can accept them as metaphor in the same way as I can accept some Christian teachings as metaphor, but that's not quite the same as believing in them. It's probably one of the reasons why I follow the Zen tradition as it has far less of a focus on the Bodhisattvas and sutras than other branches. Just sitting in zazen is enough to attain enlightenment, according to the Zen way. Is that a religion?

Bearing in mind that it's also problematic to say "Buddhism is this or that" when there are so many different branches or schools. Tantric Buddhism is very different to Soto Zen which is very different to Pure Land and so on.
Which is the beauty, as Buddhism can accomodate Theists and Atheists alike depending on which interpretation and sect you wish to follow.

And while I appreciate that it can be difficult to accurately label Buddhism because of the varied traditions and practices, even the most "Atheistic"(for want of a better term) Buddhist tradition still very firmly falls into the category of Religion by nature of it's varying component parts, and by extension as Pagan under the same term's.
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imomo16
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#324
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#324
(Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
Which is the beauty, as Buddhism can accomodate Theists and Atheists alike depending on which interpretation and sect you wish to follow.

And while I appreciate that it can be difficult to accurately label Buddhism because of the varied traditions and practices, even the most "Atheistic"(for want of a better term) Buddhist tradition still very firmly falls into the category of Religion by nature of it's varying component parts, and by extension as Pagan under the same term's.
Yeah, you're right, I'm not really arguing against that definition. I'm just a little flighty around the term religion from being raised atheist and being a very hard-ass Dawkins-ite for many years. As religion and faith are to some extent interchangeable I personally would rather say faith, though it's a fairly arbitrary distinction that most people wouldn't acknowledge, and nor should they.
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Hravan
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#325
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#325
Lord of the Rings is ****ing epic. So is the Hobbit. So is the Silmarillion (if you think LotR is hard to read then you're in for a treat with the Sil )...
I just need 5 more of the History of Middle-earth series and The Monsters and the Critics and then I will have all of the Tolkien books that I want.. (I have quite a collection already )
Oh, Tales from the Perilous Realm are wonderful to read.. The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún is amazing as well (but again, quite hard to read..)

As for Jane Austen... Mansfield Park and Persuasion are my favourites... Northanger Abbey is my least favourite. The rest are good. Which reminds me.. I need to find copies of Lady Susan, The Watsons and Sanditon.. I really want to read them..

Don't get me started on books..
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Teao the Cat
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#326
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#326
Ugh, I hate Emma... easily my least favourite Austen. been promising myself a re-read of LOTR for ages, never seem to get round to it. The Hobbit, of course, is unadulterated brilliance!


imomo, I prefer 'faith' to religion as well... don't know why, just seems more personal, less fitting in with whatever you are told.
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coolajunior
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#327
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#327
Hi ^^

I was a Pagan from Yr 6 up to Yr 9 but then I went through my I-don't-need-anyone-but-myself thing XP

Nowadays I don't continue to fully practice Wicca but I do incorporate some of the more basic elements into my everyday routine; it means I get the best of both worlds without fully committing to a religion. Full committal to a religion has always been a problem anyway for me XP

Lara xx
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Hylean
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#328
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#328
(Original post by coolajunior)
Hi ^^

I was a Pagan from Yr 6 up to Yr 9 but then I went through my I-don't-need-anyone-but-myself thing XP
So you're still a pagan...?
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Teao the Cat
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#329
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#329
I went all 'one with nature' today and went blackberrying! Great fun going hunter gatherer for your food... blackberries and cream for dessert tonight!
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Hylean
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#330
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#330
Apparently a woman is holding a lecture on Goth and Wicca here in Reykjavik at some point. Could be interesting.
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Teao the Cat
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#331
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#331
Hmm, that does sound like it could be interesting- you planning on going?

On a side note, anyone know of any pagan-ish shops in Manchester? Just moved here, and I'm sure there must be one somewhere, but google is being a bit unhelpful.
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Pandora.
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#332
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#332
(Original post by Teao the Cat)
Hmm, that does sound like it could be interesting- you planning on going?

On a side note, anyone know of any pagan-ish shops in Manchester? Just moved here, and I'm sure there must be one somewhere, but google is being a bit unhelpful.
I don't suppose this is of any help? :dontknow:
http://www.touchmanchester.co.uk/bus.../New+Age+Shops
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Teao the Cat
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#333
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#333
Thank you! there is one in there relatively near me- all I could get google to show up was a random bookshop somewhere!
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James93
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#334
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#334
(Original post by BombshellBabe)
Hey everyone! I'm just curious to know if there are any others out there with similar beliefs to myself or who would consider themselves to be part or these grouups who could share their experiences/beliefs and enlighten me on what it means to you But first I'll share with you my own pathway:

Before secondary school, I was a mild C of E Christian. I was in the church choir and sunday school. After joining secondary school and learning about Christianity in RE and about how loving the Christian God was, I decided to take it a step further and became confirmed in year 8. I have always loved people and nature and I was amazed at the things 'God' had created. I was young and naive and let's just say I didn't exactly read the small print. Anyway the school I went to was a Catholic school. You can probably see where this is going. We were all forced to do RE for GCSE and we followed a syllabus which basically was all about learning Lukes gospel word for word, then discussing the church's view on situiations in great depth. Oh and looking at crazy American evangelists. As if the syllabus wasn't enough to give me a bad impression of Christianity, after hearing what Catholics had to say about sex, abortion, homosexuality etc, I was outraged. How could the 'loving' God I had come to love through my 'faith' condemn the very people he created? (I also came out as bisexual around this point in time). I will never forget the lesson I ripped the cross and chain off my neck, stood on it and ran out for air. Which, looking back was kinda stupid because the gardens at my school were full of Mary and Jesus statues which made things worse. The God I once loved and admired, hated people like me who were OK with non-marital sex and OK with loving the same sex. I was totally lost. The next few months were the most confusing of my life so far. I rejected the God who rejected me, but I still admired the beauty of nature. It had a profound effect on me and I realised that this was where my beliefs were centred. Nature did not reject or judge, and it was beautiful and all-loving. And what's more, nature doesn't exactly care about sex before marriage or even homosexuality, because it is all natural :L So my curent beliefs centre around nature, its cycles, its balance, its purity, its power and its love

tl;dr I was Christian, went to Catholic school and it totally put me off. Now I'm Pagan

Now it's your turn x
im sorry that anyone ever led you to believe that god hates you/ rejected you because thats just not true. god loves you personally
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CondensedMilk
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#335
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#335
(Original post by James93)
im sorry that anyone ever led you to believe that god hates you/ rejected you because thats just not true. god loves you personally
Yes, he loves you so much he will torture you if you do not worship him.
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Hylean
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#336
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#336
(Original post by CondensedMilk)
Yes, he loves you so much he will torture you if you do not worship him.
There are some branches of Christian thought that argue that Hell isn't torture, it's just the absence of God after having felt his presence. Why would God allow someone to be near him if they don't like or believe in him?
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CondensedMilk
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#337
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#337
(Original post by Hylean)
There are some branches of Christian thought that argue that Hell isn't torture, it's just the absence of God after having felt his presence. Why would God allow someone to be near him if they don't like or believe in him?
When this approach is taken, 'absence of God' is almost always (at least in my own experience) equated to torture by the idea that anything good comes from God, without which there is only immense suffering. Rethinking like that certainly doesn't make it any less despicable, or any less petty on God's part.
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Hylean
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#338
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#338
(Original post by CondensedMilk)
When this approach is taken, 'absence of God' is almost always (at least in my own experience) equated to torture by the idea that anything good comes from God, without which there is only immense suffering. Rethinking like that certainly doesn't make it any less despicable, or any less petty on God's part.
If we follow The Bible, which most people in this thread don't, the entire point of our world is for us to love and follow God, so why wouldn't he do something like that? He laid out the rules, we disobeyed. Accepting us into the reward is hardly giving a good example. Really, we're just God's experiment. Why reward us for being bad?
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CondensedMilk
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#339
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#339
(Original post by Hylean)
If we follow The Bible, which most people in this thread don't, the entire point of our world is for us to love and follow God, so why wouldn't he do something like that? He laid out the rules, we disobeyed. Accepting us into the reward is hardly giving a good example. Really, we're just God's experiment. Why reward us for being bad?
It's not an issue of being bad, it's an issue of accepting the Christian faith as true or not. All I see here is explanation of the system God sets up in this scenario, with no thought given that it might be unethical. "God's experiment" is a good term for it, but it certainly doesn't make torturing people just.
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Hylean
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#340
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#340
(Original post by CondensedMilk)
It's not an issue of being bad, it's an issue of accepting the Christian faith as true or not. All I see here is explanation of the system God sets up in this scenario, with no thought given that it might be unethical. "God's experiment" is a good term for it, but it certainly doesn't make torturing people just.
If God is where all ethics ultimately stem from, then he can never be unethical. We can only misunderstand his ethics.

By not accepting the Christian faith (or Jewish or Islamic), we are being bad. We are breaking God's rules. It's always an issue of being bad. We can no longer be the noble heathen who hadn't yet heard God's word, because we have and we have rejected it, thus breaking the rules God laid down. If God exist, he decides what is just, not you. You might not like it, but you can't overrule him.
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