Oxford medical applicants 2013 Watch

nexttime
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(Original post by Danshu321)
hang on...I got it wrong..if your figure is X=(A-2)/16 and itsabpy's is Y=A/18, then X-Y=(A-18)/144, because A is <=18, therefor X-Y is negative, means the percentage should be smaller. mmmm...This is like a BMAT question, have I got it right this time? and I lost 3% using this 16 method
Yes that's right Should have said subtract 2 not 1. It would make a good BMAT question i think - i'll suggest it for next year
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itsaboy
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#322
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(Original post by nexttime)
Yes that's right Should have said subtract 2 not 1. It would make a good BMAT question i think - i'll suggest it for next year

I apologize for the delay in my reply unfortunately I have to share the computer.

This gives better results and is the way to calculate BMAT not as previously speculated on tsr and in an Excel sheet that is available online.

((s1+s2 -2)/16*80)
+(s3/5*2/3*20)
+(tran(S3_ENGLISH,'A',5,'B',4,'C ',3,'D',2,'E',1,0)/5*20/3))

This makes St Hughs a distant dream with English lit being my third A level.
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(Original post by itsaboy)
I apologize for the delay in my reply unfortunately I have to share the computer.

This gives better results and is the way to calculate BMAT not as previously speculated on tsr and in an Excel sheet that is available online.

((s1+s2 -2)/16*80)
+(s3/5*2/3*20)
+(tran(S3_ENGLISH,'A',5,'B',4,'C ',3,'D',2,'E',1,0)/5*20/3))

This makes St Hughs a distant dream with English lit being my third A level.
That's good to know, at least.

Why would English lit be a problem?

Any chance that you could share what your analysis of that spreadsheet produced? Or did i miss a link somewhere?
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itsaboy
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#324
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(Original post by nexttime)
That's good to know, at least.

Why would English lit be a problem?

Any chance that you could share what your analysis of that spreadsheet produced? Or did i miss a link somewhere?

Are you interested in anything specific?

Got carried away looking at applicants with Further Maths and 4 A-levels nothing to do with my profile.
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nexttime
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#325
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(Original post by itsaboy)
Are you interested in anything specific?

Got carried away looking at applicants with Further Maths and 4 A-levels nothing to do with my profile.
Not really. I just like to know about these things, since its my course.
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RogerFrost
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#326
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(Original post by nexttime)
Not really. I just like to know about these things, since its my course.
(Original post by itsaboy)
Are you interested in anything specific?

Got carried away looking at applicants with Further Maths and 4 A-levels nothing to do with my profile.
(Original post by Danshu321)
hang on...I got it wrong..if your figure is X=(A-2)/16 and itsabpy's is Y=A/18, then X-Y=(A-18)/144, because A is <=18, therefor X-Y is negative, means the percentage should be smaller. mmmm...This is like a BMAT question, have I got it right this time? and I lost 3% using this 16 method
(Original post by NinjaNerdfighter)
/
I would like to point out a few things. I am not an admissions tutor or anything like that. I am also a medical applicant applying for 2013 entry, so feel free to disagree and tell me your opinions. It doesn't matter what the "correct" way to calculate the bmat score is, because it's based on relative to others. If we look at the BMAT graph for 2012:

http://www.admissionstests.cambridge... sults_2012.pdf

we see the whole graph has pretty much been shifted to the left by 1.0 pretty much compared to last year. getting 5s would normally be average in any other year, but this year it puts you in the top 40% in S1 and like top 30% in s2. So you never know the whole average score for the candidates applying to Oxford may drop significantly. Also looking at the FOI bmat spreadsheet obtained, It really stresses how important the *interview* is (do you agree with me here or not?) because one applicant had 6.9, 9.0, 4A (or something like that) and had 100% A* ratio and was unsuccessful and there are many great bmat scorers (with near 9s) who have been outright rejected. Also people with 4.9s and 5s and low 6s have had offers. It does make me think, that interview is the main point. Whilst I was at my interview i was speaking to current medical students there, and they were saying that BMAT and GCSEs are only important in short-listing you for interview. If you shine and excel at the interview, and they like you, then they'll take you on regardless. Also if you have great bmat, and gcse, but there's something about you that just doesn't click with them, then they just won't take you on! I was chatting to a TSR legend (VazzyB) and he was saying that in his time he has figured out that the interview is the KEY decider in offer or rejection from oxford for medicine. (different to cambridge where they care mainly about AS grades and bmat).

so to summarise:

1) It doesn't matter about last year's BMAT averages, because the BMAT for this year are what matters, and how the rest of the cohort has performed

2) If you have an exceptional BMAT you still have every chance of rejection.

3) if you have poor bmat, but your interview was so good the iterviewers thought "omg, this person definitely has potential", then I guess you have every chance of offer.

I am just speculating here, and these are my views and opinions, what do you all think?

also here is a good podcast in which tutors describe the interview process and post interview (i.e what emphasis the bmat has post interview)

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/under...isode_the.html



P.S the new supposedly "right way" to calculate the bmat makes no sense. According to it i got 50.3% on bmat, if this was the case then last year i should't have been shortlisted. I know by looking on tsr that this year there are people that have same bmat as me and worse than me who have been short-listed at oxford for medicine, but from the graph on oxford's site: http://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/a100statistics

like only 5 people got shortlisted last year with that bmat score, so if this were to apply again this year, only 5 people should have been shortlisted again?
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#327
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(Original post by RogerFrost)
It doesn't matter what the "correct" way to calculate the bmat score is, because it's based on relative to others.
Well... exactly. So we if we are drawing comparisons, we need to use the same system as they do.

You are right that this year the average BMAT mark has dropped quite a lot, but in previous years it has been valid to say 'last year 60% was average. I'm only getting 50% so i need to work harder'. But everyone has been calculating it wrongly so that is significant!

P.S the new supposedly "right way" to calculate the bmat makes no sense. According to it i got 50.3% on bmat, if this was the case then last year i should't have been shortlisted. I know by looking on tsr that this year there are people that have same bmat as me and worse than me who have been short-listed at oxford for medicine, but from the graph on oxford's site: http://www.medsci.ox.ac.uk/a100statistics

like only 5 people got shortlisted last year with that bmat score, so if this were to apply again this year, only 5 people should have been shortlisted again?
You said yourself, BMAT scores were lower this year. So when Oxford does publish that data, i expect it to be a lot lower.

I'm only going by what itsaboy has said but i trust his conclusion based on the data.

As to the point about the interview being the most vital... definitely. Purely anecdotal here, but at my interview there was a guy with 8.(?), 9.0, 10.0 (old system - like equivalent to a 4) - outstanding score, didn't get in. (I genuinely suspect him being a very arrogant person had something to do with it, but that's pure speculation). In fact, its recently been questioned on here whether the BMAT matters AT ALL post-interview. I suspect it does, but yes i don't think there is any disputing that the interview is the most important part of any application.
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Danshu321
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#328
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(Original post by RogerFrost)

I am just speculating here, and these are my views and opinions, what do you all think?
It's simply for fun to do some calculation work here, to get mind off of a whole week waiting ahead. We all know the importance of interview but it was also said (somewhere I can't remember) the interview score will be added to BMAT mark afterwards to re-rank.

(Original post by nexttime)

So when Oxford does publish that data, i expect it to be a lot lower.

I think so as well, unless all the top 10% have applied to Oxford. And due to the shift of the distribution curve, the oxford's bar chart may show sth quite different as well.

By the way, just out of interest, as you said you might make suggestion for BMAT question next year...did you contribute to the hardness of BMAT this year? People are saying that every year a bunch of oxbridge people make up those BMAT questions...are students involved as well? --- sorry if it's confidential, I understand you might not want get shot by people in BMAT thread
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RogerFrost
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#329
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(Original post by nexttime)
Well... exactly. So we if we are drawing comparisons, we need to use the same system as they do.

You are right that this year the average BMAT mark has dropped quite a lot, but in previous years it has been valid to say 'last year 60% was average. I'm only getting 50% so i need to work harder'. But everyone has been calculating it wrongly so that is significant!



You said yourself, BMAT scores were lower this year. So when Oxford does publish that data, i expect it to be a lot lower.

I'm only going by what itsaboy has said but i trust his conclusion based on the data.

As to the point about the interview being the most vital... definitely. Purely anecdotal here, but at my interview there was a guy with 8.(?), 9.0, 10.0 (old system - like equivalent to a 4) - outstanding score, didn't get in. (I genuinely suspect him being a very arrogant person had something to do with it, but that's pure speculation). In fact, its recently been questioned on here whether the BMAT matters AT ALL post-interview. I suspect it does, but yes i don't think there is any disputing that the interview is the most important part of any application.

nexttime I wanted your view on this (since you're a medical student at oxford) how much do oxford discriminate on racial background? i mean in the uk a lot of asians go for medicine at most medical schools (e.g at imperial, birmingham there is quite a large asian medical students population) What do you think about oxford? are there many asians studying medicine at oxford?
thanks!
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#330
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(Original post by RogerFrost)
nexttime I wanted your view on this (since you're a medical student at oxford) how much do oxford discriminate on racial background? i mean in the uk a lot of asians go for medicine at most medical schools (e.g at imperial, birmingham there is quite a large asian medical students population) What do you think about oxford? are there many asians studying medicine at oxford?
thanks!
Clearly it is a cultural thing for asians to do medicine, and this is very obvious in areas with high asian populations like London, where i think almost half are asian. Oxford doesn't really have that local source of asian applicants, but it nevertheless has something like 15-20% of students of indian sub-continent origin, at a very rough guess.

But you ask about discrimination... clearly basing admissions decisions on race is both immoral and illegal, and Oxford goes to great lengths to ensure its application process is fair and above all transparent, with extensive data on a variety of issues including race issued each year. I honestly would not have thought you've got anything to worry about - there are plenty of ethnic minorities at Oxford (above that of the general population, actually).
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#331
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(Original post by Danshu321)
By the way, just out of interest, as you said you might make suggestion for BMAT question next year...did you contribute to the hardness of BMAT this year? People are saying that every year a bunch of oxbridge people make up those BMAT questions...are students involved as well? --- sorry if it's confidential, I understand you might not want get shot by people in BMAT thread
No i was only joking. Wasn't me honest.

We do get to help at interviews as you may know, but that would definitely be unprofessional to mention on TSR. edit if it were to happen to me at some point in the future
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RogerFrost
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#332
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(Original post by nexttime)
Clearly it is a cultural thing for asians to do medicine, and this is very obvious in areas with high asian populations like London, where i think almost half are asian. Oxford doesn't really have that local source of asian applicants, but it nevertheless has something like 15% of students of indian sub-continent origin, at a very rough guess.

But you ask about discrimination... clearly basing admissions decisions on race is both immoral and illegal, and Oxford goes to great lengths to ensure its application process is fair and above all transparent, with extensive data on a variety of issues including race issued each year. I honestly would not have thought you've got anything to worry about - there are plenty of ethnic minorities at Oxford (above that of the general population, actually).
It's just that the college I was at I didn't see any asian students at all (let alone medics). They were all english with very polished and refined and "posh" accents, so that really did put me off ease. Talking about discrimination, is there any at all? i mean what about the private sector and the state sector?
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NinjaNerdfighter
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(Original post by RogerFrost)
what about the private sector and the state sector?
Oxbridge have a reputation for being a place for the private sector, not the state sector - so naturally they try to combat this. Whether or not they succeed/try enough in the first place is a matter of much debate :P
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RogerFrost
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#334
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(Original post by NinjaNerdfighter)
Oxbridge have a reputation for being a place for the private sector, not the state sector - so naturally they to try to combat this. Whether or not they succeed/try enough in the first place is a matter of much debate :P
Really? I don't see this. I mean I'm from the private sector, and when I went for interview EVERYONE there (except for 2 people) were from the STATE sector!!! again that really made me anxious, as i thought everything is going against me (all the stats and numbers).
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nexttime
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#335
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(Original post by RogerFrost)
It's just that the college I was at I didn't see any asian students at all (let alone medics). They were all english with very polished and refined and "posh" accents, so that really did put me off ease. Talking about discrimination, is there any at all? i mean what about the private sector and the state sector?
Well again from the data, about 18% of all undergrads are non-white (white incudes mixed race). Maybe it was just an abnormal day!

Do you mean discrimination by the tutors, or by the students? Regarding the tutors, its been quite extensively studied, looking at final outcomes of the degree vs admissions etc, and overall it seems that there is a very slight bias towards state-schools. Only very small though.

Amongst students... i went to a relatively state-dominated college (about 66% state schooled) and whilst you did hear about extremely rich people and very snobby people at other colleges, i never came across anything like that myself. As to the reverse... there was quite a communist political angle amongst a lot of the JCR. A few were downright anti-conservative supporters (and anti-religion incidentally), but that's politics not individuals.

I honestly never came across anything where a person's background was held against them, and whilst there are a lot of people with distinctly southern accents, they are not bad people and there are also those that are different and overall its a really good mix i'd say. Some really interesting people go to Oxford - i really enjoyed it.

(Original post by RogerFrost)
Really? I don't see this. I mean I'm from the private sector, and when I went for interview EVERYONE there (except for 2 people) were from the STATE sector!!! again that really made me anxious, as i thought everything is going against me (all the stats and numbers).
Are you sure about that though? I find its often quite fashionable to be state-schooled and i suspect some people don't reveal the truth on purpose.

Its about 40% private schooled these days, with the remainder being about 30% grammar and 30% comp.
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itsaboy
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#336
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(Original post by nexttime)
Not really. I just like to know about these things, since its my course.
Here are some stats from the foi information. I have tried to make a connection between GCSE and BMAT to give a better feel of an applicants odds.

When comparing BMAT add 4% to your 2013 score and use (((s1 + s2) – 2 )/16) for sections 1 and 2.

Not sure if adding 4% is valid across the full range of BMAT scores but this is a good estimate for BMAT between 50 and 65.
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mulac1
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#337
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Is that for 2012 entry?
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itsaboy
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(Original post by mulac1)
Is that for 2012 entry?
Yes, from foi submitted Dec 2012.
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sjwilsonn
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#339
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(Original post by RogerFrost)
It's just that the college I was at I didn't see any asian students at all (let alone medics). They were all english with very polished and refined and "posh" accents, so that really did put me off ease. Talking about discrimination, is there any at all? i mean what about the private sector and the state sector?
When I was interviewed (at wadham and magdalen) about half/half ratio between english/foreign students although i met were from europe - not east asia.
Felt the majority were from private schools but did not feel any hint of discrimination when i was down there.
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itsaboy
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#340
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Graph on Offers and Rejections broken down by BMAT (and 100% A*) an attempt to ascertain how BMAT is used after interview.

Good news is that offers are made at almost every BMAT score. Name:  Oxford BMAT after interview.JPG
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