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Original post by Magwen
What do you think about homoerotism
?


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Exactly the same thing as I was doing before they told me.
Original post by MENDACIUM
I would describe myself as someone with a scientific background. I am no expert , but i have a place at medical school and will have to do an additional BSC as well as a lot of research. I have completed my A-levels and do on-going research of my own on the side.


What additional BSc? I've never heard of MBBS students having to do an extra degree.

Either way, language is neccesary for humans to communicate.


Clearly.

Out of the many tests done, there have been no genetic links or any kind of links that allows us to conclude homosexuality is inborn in us.


Whether or not homosexuality is genetic, caused by environmental factors, or others... how does that have any relevance as to whether gay people should be discriminated against?

We should be here debating whether homosexuality itself is acceptable, rather than if it is natural or not.


Agreed. You seem not to be following your own advice.

We are born with complementary organs for the opposite sex, and that's just how we are


How does the fact of human beings having sexual organs suited to interface with opposite gender organs have any relevance to whether homosexuality is "acceptable"?

And who deems "acceptability"? Or do you want a nanny state to enter people's bedrooms to ensure they're having state-approved sexual relations?

You're a Stalinist.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by MENDACIUM
In addition, the article by the leader of the Human Genome Project - by virtue of their own experience- states that homosexuality is not hard-wired. No-one is born gay. Nurture makes one gay.


How many times do I have to tell you that what you think he's saying isn't what he's saying!
Original post by minimarshmallow
How many times do I have to tell you that what you think he's saying isn't what he's saying!


When Greenland renames itself into Bluffroominavia?
Reply 324
Original post by minimarshmallow
How many times do I have to tell you that what you think he's saying isn't what he's saying!


He explicitly says homosexuality is not hardwired, but there may be unknown factors, not evidenced, that could be playing here and 'turned on' by nature. The former is evidenced, while the latter is actually subjective, speculative, and needs one to take a huge leap of faith to believe in.
Reply 325
Original post by MostUncivilised
What additional BSc? I've never heard of MBBS students having to do an extra degree.



Clearly.



Whether or not homosexuality is genetic, caused by environmental factors, or others... how does that have any relevance as to whether gay people should be discriminated against?



Agreed. You seem not to be following your own advice.



How does the fact of human beings having sexual organs suited to interface with opposite gender organs have any relevance to whether homosexuality is "acceptable"?

And who deems "acceptability"? Or do you want a nanny state to enter people's bedrooms to ensure they're having state-approved sexual relations?

You're a Stalinist.


I do not know what a Stalinist is, but I don't like comparisons to Stalin for obvious reasons. I hate murderers like them. I must ask you, what are your views on zoophilia?
Original post by MENDACIUM
He explicitly says homosexuality is not hardwired, but there may be unknown factors, not evidenced, that could be playing here and 'turned on' by nature. The former is evidenced, while the latter is actually subjective, speculative, and needs one to take a huge leap of faith to believe in.


Yeah, it's not hardwired in your genes. Doesn't mean it's all nurture. Genes are not the only thing in nature you know! Also doesn't mean you can't be born gay.
Original post by Bluffroom
When Greenland renames itself into Bluffroominavia?


I guess we'll both keep waiting.
I have a little boy and I can't explain how much I love him, I would give up my life to save his in an instant. If he tells me in the future that he's gay how would that change how much I love him? I'd support him and love him and be as proud of the person he is as I was before. That's what matters to me, him growing up to be a good person, and if he does then my attitude towards him will never change.
Original post by minimarshmallow
I guess we'll both keep waiting.

Should be interesting
Original post by MENDACIUM
I do not know what a Stalinist is


You don't even know a basic political fact like the definition/existence of Stalinism, and yet you purport to have any authority to comment on the sexual lives of millions of gay citizens?

I must ask you, what are your views on zoophilia?


I oppose the sexual abuse of animals. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Reply 331
Original post by MENDACIUM
I do not know what a Stalinist is, but I don't like comparisons to Stalin for obvious reasons. I hate murderers like them. I must ask you, what are your views on zoophilia?


In this context, Stalinist means paternalistic authoritarian.

You didn't answer the questions about acceptability.

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Reply 332
Original post by MENDACIUM
. I must ask you, what are your views on zoophilia?

You're comparing homosexuality to zoophilia? Are you ****ing kidding me? This is what it's like arguing with homophobic people. They spout complete nonsense all the time which can be torn apart by anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together.

Zoophilia is the abuse and rape of animals. They are totally incapable of giving consent.
Original post by AJ_Moose
You're comparing homosexuality to zoophilia? Are you ****ing kidding me? This is what it's like arguing with homophobic people. They spout complete nonsense all the time which can be torn apart by anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together.

Zoophilia is the abuse and rape of animals. They are totally incapable of giving consent.


'Like homophobic people'
He is one. Ignorant even for even them

@nonsense poster this quote responded to - how dare you compare homosexuality to bestiality and zoophilia - that is disgusting and wrong.
I have some friends who are gay and all of them have 'come out' to their parents. Each and every one of their parents had a different reaction, some good, some bad and some indifferent. The majority of their parents were happy that they could be open and honest with them, not necessarily happy that they are gay. For everyone on here saying that they would be 'disappointed' or 'horrified' just consider what your children would be going through. It isn't easy to be different to everyone else, and receive abuse because of something you cant change, especially if your parents (the ones who should support you no matter what) are disgusted at their child because of their sexuality. Even if you aren't happy with your child's choices, that is no reason to look down at them or even disown them! A good parent should love their child without exception, if you can't love your child for being who they are. In my opinion, you shouldn't be a parent.
Sorry but if you're raising a child whom you love and cherish, and they came out, I couldn't fathom how you would react with anything other than support
Original post by imasuperhero
Yes because girls never participate in receiving anal sex...



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How many girls do you know with hairy butt cracks lol
Original post by Maid Marian
I'd be disappointed, not going to lie, but I'd still love them and support them anyway.


In what way, before I pass judgment?

Original post by maskofsanity
If I am honest - and I don't believe this is homophobic - I would be quietly disappointed. Not in my child, obviously, just in general. I like the idea of parenting a child that I know I can fully relate to and that we'd have very similar interests. I look forward to chatting to my son about girl problems or to my daughter about being cautious! I think I'm just set on a 'traditional'/'normal' family and I would be concerned that we wouldn't be as close as I'd hope.


Although I consider myself mostly homosexual, this post was actually nice to read for a reason I have yet to put my finger on. Thank you.

Original post by Perseveranze
Not really, my kids won't be in the kind of environment that tends to play a huge part in determining this unusual orientation.


Do you really know which environment it is, or even an environment you have control over? This seems more like a guess.

Original post by MENDACIUM
Homosexuality is not inherited, nor is it genetic, so there is absolutely no chance of me - being control of their nurture- having to go through this. I would have regular conversations with them from an early age of what they biologically are(a man) or my partner if we had a daughter (a woman!). We'd obviously educate them about biology, about nature, about how society works, and such. My son or daughter would be biologically designed for the opposite sex. Thus, homosexuality is a deviance from this natural design. I do not hate gay people. From a clinical point of view, I believe men are designed biologically for women, and vice versa. Thus, homosexuality -or any non heterosexuality- is a deviance.


not inherited/genetic =/= nurture which you have control over
nurture =/= control
nurture =/= socialisation

Please don't say it's wrong to your children, because it will lead to unhappiness as its not a choice.
Just to clarify
deviance from your concept of "biological" design =/= choice either
in case you think it does.

natural means "without human interference" so just because homosexuality might deviate from what you consider the normal design, doesn't mean it's not natural. It's less natural, suppressing it, which is what you would be doing.

Original post by Alex_Jones
Is it that time of the month when all the gay threads start to pop up...


:ahee:

Original post by MENDACIUM
And you are spot on. The leader of the Human Genome project has said that homosexuality is not hardwired - nurture plays a massive role. We human beings are sentient, have consciousness, and people have had sex with the same gender, children, animals, members of the opposite sex, and all other forms of sexuality. If there is a desire, there will be people going through different routes to fulfil it. One can choose what they are attracted to, by virtue of the kind of experience they expose themselves to, and the reinforcing of experiences.
But not to worry :wink: I want my child -if I have any- to understand they are male or female, understand what they are biologically adapted for, ect. If I had a leg which did not work, would I embrace that leg and say ' anyone who is disappointed is wrong' ? Or would I say 'let us try to get treatment for it, to ensure as best as we can, we can allow the leg to fulfil it's original use. Homosexuality is not genetic or predetermined, but the analogy holds.


Hello poster from earlier again.
again
not hardwired (inherited/genetic) =/= nurture which you have control over
nurture =/= socialisation
nurture =/= choice

Nurture does play a massive role, from what I understand, but not in the way you think. Google "gene expression/epigenetics", technically it's about how environment affects to what degree a gene is "on" and "off", how the environment acts with genes. People rarely choose what they are exposed to, so that eliminates the choice in your argument.
e.g. one doesn't choose what their parents fed them, what school they went to, their classmates usually, a lot of their social groups, the quirks of their friends, posters on walls in schools, fashion etc.

Curious, to what extent do you distinguish a difference between sexual behaviour and sexual orientation?

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Original post by XcitingStuart
In what way, before I pass judgment?





Dude, that post is ancient.

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