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Maggie Thatcher - The worst PM in UK's history and an economic failure Watch

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    (Original post by Benjie)
    The people who live there want to be British it was a 99% vote to be British. Why not give Argentina 1% it's fair.


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    Did you neg me for my reply? I presented you with a series of facts- not opinions.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Stop going on about the current Government- if you want to *****, do it about the 1997 to 2010 Labour Government. This Government have hardly touched the country.
    I hope people from UCL are generally nicer because you're a rude scum and I'm going to be studying there from September.
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    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    Thatcherism produced:

    1) Shifting of the means of production to the developing countries for cheap, exploiting labour power
    She didnt, the companies did its called good economics unless you want the price of your crappy laptop to go through the roof?

    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    2) Record levels of unemployment reaching higher than what can be witnessed in the present-day ordoliberal Poland
    no pain, no gain. Plus she didnt fire especially many people herself.
    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    3) Making the British economy entirely dependent on the finance sector, more so than Switzerland
    Are you forgetting that without that our economy would be well non existant? Britains manufacturing ability died decades ago the fact she made London a financial hub that created billions for corporations and people ishardlysomething to gripe about

    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    4) Creating the gigantic monopolies and oligarchs alongside, such as the Six main banks, Six main energy companies so that we could compete with perestroikan Russia
    You read these things you say right?
    She didnt create them. aside from the fact the halfof them are foreign owned or atleast partially and incase it had escaped your notice that was brown who created the titan banks.
    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    5) Destroying the leftover of respect, dignity and influence for the organized labour which has been remarked by the greatest faculties of mind as essential for the commodity producing society, i.e. Adam Smith
    Oh cry me a river, dignity doesnt pay the bills.

    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    7) Marketization of education which, as opposed to 'parentocracy' created the A-C economy with millions being permanently written off and the wealthy having a substantial socio-economic advantage in education ever since
    complete socialist crap.


    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    10) Failed at Hong Kong
    How can she have failed at HK? It was never ours to start with.

    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    11) Falklands War Criminal
    Please the only even vagualy questionable act there was the belgrano which should have been sunk regardless of where it was, it may not have posed a threat then but it could easily have if it turned around.



    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    15) Portrayed the Celtic nations as inferior, especially in the case of Northern Ireland struggle or Wales
    well aside from the fact they are what tosh.




    (Original post by WalkingTolerance)
    21) Last but not least, Baroness alienated the Britons from their communities. Philosophically speaking: separation of the subject from the object was at its zenith. Record levels of suicide, mental illness, depression and millions of lives betrayed from childhood, parenthood and senility.
    Let me guess shes also the cause of Aids, Smallpox and every other ailment known to human kind right?

    Your post is complete tripe and nothing more than the ranting of a weak little boy who has nothing better to do than slander someone whos not even in the damn ground yet. She did more for this country that you ever could or will.
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    (Original post by Karla_Steinbach)
    I'm Dutch and I truly love Britons as a nation (we're sort of distant cousins with the English Saxons) but I must say Falklands simply do not and should not belong to Britain.

    Should they belong to Argentine? That's disputable.

    The point about Falklands War - yes - it was a criminal act as no sea warfare and airbombarding was necessary to sink the ships full of Argentinian men retreating with a white flag!
    You read this gibberish you write before you post right?
    firstly it was 1 ship, secondly it wasnt full of anybody retreating and thirdly they most certainly had not surrendered?

    Your understanding of the history, politics and general nature of the dispute is heinous.
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    (Original post by Yael)
    No. Thatcher was Jewish in her origin but raised a goy.
    Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity.
    And yes, I'm well aware of what Jewish law says on the matter, but Jewish law has no jurisdiction or relevance to someone who doesn't recognise it.
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    (Original post by pol pot noodles)
    Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity.
    And yes, I'm well aware of what Jewish law says on the matter, but Jewish law has no jurisdiction or relevance to someone who doesn't recognise it.
    Well, she was an ethnic Jew, a member of the house of Israel who would have no trouble potentially gaining Israeli citizenship despite her Protestant Christian faith.

    I'm secularized, just like the vast majority of young Jewish generation, but we do speak of ourselves as an ethnicity: there's no point in pretending that we aren't. Of course one could play around with words like Ashkenazi/Sephardi/Mizrahi but Karl Marx&David Ricardo(atheists), Benjamin Disraeli (Judaism), Margaret Thatcher (Methodism) can all be referred to as Jewish in their ethnicity.
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    "Where there is discord may we bring harmony"

    A government should not be declaring war on its own citizens, especially one that claims to be patriotic.
    A government that took the view we beat them and then let them rot.

    Those who say industry died because of Thatcher are very wrong but "where there is despair, may we bring hope" was not offered.
    She offered the huge amounts of unqualified workers who could not adapt to a new economy nothing.
    She said it was a price worth paying.

    A government cannot not its citizens, especially its worst off suffer and rot - to divide and prove a political point.
    Thatcher supports can praise her however they want but they cannot deny she looked after the whole nation - she pitted us against each other after the historic strides to bring us together after 1945.

    The housing issue - New Labour failed, as did John Major of that there is no doubt but immigration is the key indicator in the housing crisis - social housing is a part of the issue but affordability and the cost of rent today are direct results to the situation we have - this goes beyond simple immigration social housing demand.

    I must also point out at this time one of the worst policy decisions she ever made was her centralisation drive.
    In the short term fantastic for her, she could gain more power for herself but to this day only London - suprise surprise - of the largest English city's can govern themselves properly.

    In Liverpool we have City of Liverpool, Sefton, Knowsley, Wirral and St Helens where once we had a united metropolitan council. For political purposes to fuel her own aim she scrapped it in Liverpool, in the West Midlands, in Manchester and the North East.
    We should be fighting to win back real representation and governance for our citys and better control of our own local budgets.

    I actually feel really positive after this week, and this a number on the left should start to feel the same way. Now is a big chance to rebuild and move on across a vast range of policy areas. A time for a new consensus after Thatcherism and her "children" have failed on economic policy so badly this time around.

    I have to say though - we badly need to implement an electoral system that reflects views across the country in a far stronger way. If there is one lesson we can learn about Thatcherism is she won 3 elections polling around 40% of the vote while the two partys which did actively oppose and hate her policies attained over 50%. Something we often forgot about the Lib Dems is just how important the SDP in what they were and how the SDP relates to the Labour Party. It in formation was far more social democratic based than a continuation of the Liberal party.

    There is not a right wing majority in the United Kingdom and it is time we woke up, Labour put the selfishness of their position behind them and we had a fairer electoral system.
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    (Original post by Karla_Steinbach)
    I'm Dutch and I truly love Britons as a nation (we're sort of distant cousins with the English Saxons) but I must say Falklands simply do not and should not belong to Britain.

    Should they belong to Argentine? That's disputable.

    The point about Falklands War - yes - it was a criminal act as no sea warfare and airbombarding was necessary to sink the ships full of Argentinian men retreating with a white flag!
    Thank you. Thatcher's defense that she wasn't certain about their true intent was fabricated; she admitted off-the-record that she knew the Argentinians were retreating after defeat, and when somebody leaked this information to the public she did her best to have him prosecuted for treason.

    And, while he was technically guilty of the charge, he was found 'not-guilty' by the jury because at the end of the day, come on -- wtf, Thatcher?
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    (Original post by March)
    Thank you. Thatcher's defense that she wasn't certain about their true intent was fabricated; she admitted off-the-record that she knew the Argentinians were retreating after defeat, and when somebody leaked this information to the public she did her best to have him prosecuted for treason.

    And, while he was technically guilty of the charge, he was found 'not-guilty' by the jury because at the end of the day, come on -- wtf, Thatcher?
    No she didn't. Infact, what you've said is an out an out lie.


    Are you really knowingly making false statements?

    The Arge ntinians have had 31 years to file a lawsuit if they fekt it was a war crime. They've chosen not to.

    Recent declassified documentation shows that they knew it was withdrawing due to a failed airstrike that was conducted by the 25 Mayo. (Not being able to launch due to bad weather.)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rs-reveal.html

    The Argentinians weren't retreating as the Belgrano action was before the landings at San Carlos. So they couldn't have been retreating in defeat as the Argentine Garrison on the Falklands hadn't been engaged by that time.

    Infact, Thatcher took the flack over that incident when she could've clearly used the information to clear her name. She took teh flack to protect SIGINT capabalities. That to me shows that she wasn't interested in personla glory but the good of the country.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    No she didn't. Infact, what you've said is an out an out lie.


    Are you really knowingly making false statements?


    Recent declassified documentation shows that they knew it was withdrawing due to a failed airstrike that was conducted by the 25 Mayo. (Not being able to launch due to bad weather.)

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rs-reveal.html

    The Argentinians weren't retreating as the Belgrano action was before the landings at San Carlos. So they couldn't have been retreating in defeat as the Argentine Garrison on teh Falklands hadn't been engaged by that time.

    Infact, Thatcher took the flack over that incident when she could've clearly used the information to clear her name. She took teh flack to protect SIGINT capabalities. That to me shows that she wasn't interested in personla glory but the good of the country.
    Recent's the word. Looks like my information was outdated. Thanks for the information and links, not so much for the tone and accusations.
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    (Original post by VonMiller)
    Just for a clarification: Germany had a tremendously strong union power and still has today, even more so than Scandinavia, being the primarily reason for our consistently high real wages.
    But Germany hardly endured anything on the scale of the winter of discontent.
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    (Original post by March)
    Recent's the word. Looks like my information was outdated. Thanks for the information and links, not so much for the tone and accusations.

    You're information has been wrong since it was falsely made by the left in 1982.
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    (Original post by Thriftworks)
    But Germany hardly endured anything on the scale of the winter of discontent.

    The German trade unions don't promote outdated production techniques to ensure high employment figures for its members . They work in partnership with the owners
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    You're information has been wrong since it was falsely made by the left in 1982.
    Falsely made in 1982 in light of recently declassified documents. Whatever.
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    Thatcher was a good PM. No doubt all the students on here (most of whom wouldn't even have been in nappies when Thatcher left office) would have preferred constant power cuts, rubbish piling up in the streets and 3 day working weeks for the rest of us had you been alive in the 70s. The Falklands is OURS to defend and Argentina wasn't even a country when we settled there. As for the miners, yes it's a shame when you lose your job but you have to pick yourself up and find another one. Most people lose their job at some point in their lives (myself included), but we don't spend the next 30 years whingeing about it. The poll tax was a mistake, but I can't find much in her record as PM to disagree with. I presume that as thousands of silly lefties are celebrating an old lady's death, millions ofyou will be rejoicing when Blair is gone (and apart from Brown, he really was the worst PM ever).
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    (Original post by Thriftworks)
    But Germany hardly endured anything on the scale of the winter of discontent.
    Our industrial trade unions and organized labour in general has always been a lot more powerful than the British one and still is hence why we have high real wages for the working masses. We can have a right wing rule socially - such as Merkel - but economically we're maintaining social democracy and I cannot imagine Thatcherism in Germany. It would simply not be accepted.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Do you mean the post war progressive Britain that was destroying itself in the 70's with failing industries, strikes, power cuts, a three day working week, uncollected rubbish.


    Attachment 208577
    Bringing frontiers of the state and Victorian values isn't a progress so yes, I'm willing to call your picture Progressive in comparison to the 1980s neoconservatism.
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    (Original post by Thriftworks)
    Was number 1 not inevitable. Just basic economics is it not?
    Personally this is better way of critiquing her time in office - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22070491
    I am referring to industry prevalent in the time of Thatcher. Example of a common misconception : People give Germany as an example, Germany does not have a booming coal mining industry, thus it cannot be given as an example for why we should of continued to subsidize the coal mining industry.

    Point: The industry we see in western Europe today ( mainly Germany ) is radically different to that present in Britain in the 1980's. Germany also did not have such strong union power, something which without altogether and with a different tact coming from number 10. could of led to strong manufacturing of goods such as expensive cars/high tech up market electronics. Heavy industry such as coal and steel was undeniably unsustainable and the rapid rapid growth of those industry's in competing economy's such as China that we have witnessed merely re-iterates the point, it is basic price competition. - Also developing economy's wouldn't take kindly to 18th/19th century protectionist economic strategy being pursued by Westminster, it is also IMO morally abhorrent.
    You keep editing your message and adding progressively more stupidity.
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    (Original post by VonMiller)
    Our industrial trade unions and organized labour in general has always been a lot more powerful than the British one and still is hence why we have high real wages for the working masses. We can have a right wing rule socially - such as Merkel - but economically we're maintaining social democracy and I cannot imagine Thatcherism in Germany. It would simply not be accepted.

    Whats the minimum wage set at in Germany?
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    (Original post by VonMiller)
    Our industrial trade unions and organized labour in general has always been a lot more powerful than the British one and still is hence why we have high real wages for the working masses. We can have a right wing rule socially - such as Merkel - but economically we're maintaining social democracy and I cannot imagine Thatcherism in Germany. It would simply not be accepted.
    The Germans invented the superior socio-economic system to any other National Socialism and it still is the case in the Vaterland it's just that you need a new fuhrer to make it fully running again
 
 
 
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