Boys & Feminism Watch

DiddyDec
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#321
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#321
(Original post by hdaindak)
from any kinds of inequality- e.g. pay, work opportunities, bigoted attitudes etc... just like a movement focussed on equality of race would look out for everyone but particularly those that are more likely to be abused within a current system
Right.
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BobbieShamrock
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#322
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#322
(Original post by radicalboujie)
Can I add matriarchal societies have been existing for centuries in most african cultures. Equality is mainly an issue for western women I.E suffragette movements but as I said in a previous post British empire and colonisation ig african countries made them capitalist hence patriarchy.

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Really? What are some examples?
(seriously, I'm interested)
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infairverona
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#323
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#323
(Original post by BobbieShamrock)
What I want is for feminists to understand that just because someone doesn't support feminism, doesn't mean they are against gender equality. This applies to women as well as men.
I've seen countless tumblr posts claiming that women who don't identify as feminists are either stupid, in denial, or even sexist. Feminists say they support all women yet they are the ones who pass the harshest judgement on them.
This is one of the reasons why I don't want to identify as a feminist.
So much this. I think everyone should be equal regardless of gender, race, religion, etc etc but I don't identify as a feminist.

Especially not in the UK where a 'feminist' here is someone like 'omgggg a guy beeped his car horn at me WHAT ABOUT FEMINISM'
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refusetogiveup
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#324
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#324
(Original post by hdaindak)
ok but feminism or gender equality has always been more about protecting women because there is a far greater need there
Bull****. Women have suffered considerably less than men throughout history. Where were women in the trenches? It is people like you who mean that whenever I hear a woman cry "rape" somewhere in the distance, I dance away and laugh.
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geoking
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#325
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#325
(Original post by hdaindak)
ergh no i didn't say that- but it is ignorant to ignore the fact that women have suffered more throughout history- and have had to fight for rights (which they did through feminism)...
No it's not ignorant - the past shouldn't dictate the future because it's THE PAST. Yes women were treated worse, but they are not anymore so it's a fact that should be consigned to history and left there.

Feminism now is about ignoring the problems of any other part of society and focusing on one selection. There is room in modern society for equality, but none for feminism. It's job is done, let it rest and stop flogging a dead horse.
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hdaindak
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#326
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#326
(Original post by BobbieShamrock)
What I want is for feminists to understand that just because someone doesn't support feminism, doesn't mean they are against gender equality. This applies to women as well as men.
I've seen countless tumblr posts claiming that women who don't identify as feminists are either stupid, in denial, or even sexist. Feminists say they support all women yet they are the ones who pass the harshest judgement on them.
This is one of the reasons why I don't want to identify as a feminist.
yes it does b/c its a different name for the same thing
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hdaindak
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#327
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#327
(Original post by geoking)
No it's not ignorant - the past shouldn't dictate the future because it's THE PAST. Yes women were treated worse, but they are not anymore so it's a fact that should be consigned to history and left there.

Feminism now is about ignoring the problems of any other part of society and focusing on one selection. There is room in modern society for equality, but none for feminism. It's job is done, let it rest and stop flogging a dead horse.
um yeah they are babe- there are still worldwide issues.. like saying theres not racism anymore *******s!
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hdaindak
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#328
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#328
(Original post by refusetogiveup)
Bull****. Women have suffered considerably less than men throughout history. Where were women in the trenches? It is people like you who mean that whenever I hear a woman cry "rape" somewhere in the distance, I dance away and laugh.
i feel sorry for you tbh stupid attitude... I'm not saying men havnt suffered too, also war is a totally different thing not related to gender relations so idk why you're bringing that into it
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Eva.Gregoria
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#329
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#329
(Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
Eva you're the coolest feminist I know
I don't consider myself a feminist in the modern term of the word but thanks

It's funny how the person I quoted still hasn't replied to my post. Every time I come to one of these threads and show them that life on the other side of the fence is far worse, they tend to back off.
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BobbieShamrock
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#330
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#330
(Original post by hdaindak)
yes it does b/c its a different name for the same thing
Are you saying I'm sexist because I don't consider myself a feminist?
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geoking
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#331
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#331
(Original post by hdaindak)
um yeah they are babe- there are still worldwide issues.. like saying theres not racism anymore *******s!
Babe? Well clearly you're not the sharpest tool in the shed - if the issue is worldwide then why is there such focus on western societies where the issues are nearly negligible?

We're not talking about racism, so stay on topic :rolleyes:
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506rl
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#332
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#332
The bottom line is that the word "feminism" has such a stigma attached to it for people who don't consider themselves so; they assume that everyone who is a "feminist" is actually a "radical feminist", meaning that they assume anyone who calls themself a feminist automatically hates men, is a lesbian, refuses to shave, etc etc (not that there is anything wrong with being a lesbian or refusing to shave, but unfortunately this is the stigma attached to it), and they just tut and roll their eyes.

If you ask any reasonable person "do you believe in gender equality?" they will reply with "yes". That makes them, to an extent, at least slightly feminist even if they do not realise it. The problem is not the concept; the problem is the word. People just need to realise that feminists and radical feminists are different.

Another problem is that a lot of the problems to do with sexism are not as explicit as they used to be. In the old days, people would basically all agree that women to the cooking and child care, and men go out to work, because that was considered what each gender was better at. Nowadays, most people will agree that the extent to which someone is good at cleaning or working does not depend on gender. The main problems are much more internalised, discreete and just incredibly complex. Why do we associate certain colours with certain genders? Why do some people say things like "she shouldn't have been wearing that low-cut top if she didn't want to be harassed"? Why is it considered weird for boys to wear skirts? What is even the point in having words such as "she" and "he" in our language? All these questions, amongst others, are too complex (and actually it's kind of ridiculous that these things happen and are considered social norms when you think about it) to explain in a short paragraph. Most people don't have the time or require too much time to have these things explaining to them, and that is another reason why it is hard to convince someone who isn't a feminist already to become one.

It shoudl also be noted that I do know some boys who are feminists, and some girls who apply to this whole "feminism is stupid" outlook on feminism.

Hopefully it will start finally changing in the future though
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506rl
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#333
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#333
(Original post by BobbieShamrock)
Are you saying I'm sexist because I don't consider myself a feminist?
Hi. Sorry that people on tumblr seem to have annoyed you, but maybe you misunderstand the meaning of feminism?

Feminism is literally the supporting of gender equality.

So, you support gender equality?

That makes you a feminist.

To say that it doesn't is kind of like saying "I believe in god, but I'm not religious", when religion is basically believing in god, no matter what form or kind of religion it is.

Even I will admit that a lot of posts on tumblr are just stupid. But maybe you fail to realise that most "feminists" on tumblr are either a) radical feminists (i.e. extreme) or b) 12 year olds who don't actually know what they are talking about. Infact, probably around 80% of the stuff about sexism is not reliable at all. So yes, you do have a right to find a lot of stuff on tumblr annoying. But why does that mean you are not a feminist?

Going back to the comparison to religion earlier, just because there may be horrible people in one religion (like, idk, homophobics in christianity maybe?) doesn't mean that someone is no longer going to identify as that religion. Just because you identify as something doesn't mean you are associated with everyone who also identifies as that. So just because there are some stupid uneducated 12 year old feminist-wannabes on tumblr doesn't mean that you shouldn't identify as being a feminist.

Sorry for the long post, tl;dr: You're a feminist if you believe in gender equality.
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al_94
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#334
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#334
Feminism is not beneficial to boys or girls. They are not accepting the difference between men and women they think that we are all the same which is obviously not true.
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ClickItBack
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#335
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#335
Everyone seems to be hating on feminism because of the Tumblr types, but I don't really worry about the raging loonies on there because - on the whole - they have little impact on wider society, laws, and so on.

I dislike feminism because even its mainstream component is deeply disturbing. I don't want a major political party to have quotas for female representatives; I don't want the first choice of 15 EU countries for council representatives to be rejected by the EU President because it would result in fewer token vaginas on display than his predecessor's council; I don't think there exists a rape culture in our society and especially not in our universities; and I am certain that men and women are biologically different in what they like doing and what they want in life, so it's not really a surprise or an issue of national importance that more guys do physics than girls, or that men prefer to go for the highest earning and most gruelling jobs whereas women prioritise work-life balance.
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506rl
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#336
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#336
(Original post by geoking)
No it's not ignorant - the past shouldn't dictate the future because it's THE PAST. Yes women were treated worse, but they are not anymore so it's a fact that should be consigned to history and left there.

Feminism now is about ignoring the problems of any other part of society and focusing on one selection. There is room in modern society for equality, but none for feminism. It's job is done, let it rest and stop flogging a dead horse.
Have you heard of Malala Yousafzai? She is a Pakistani teenager who was shot because she spoke out against the Taliban stopping females from attending school.

"Yes they were treated worse but not anymore" Okay I have a few things to say about this.

In consideration to what I said about Malala, I think it's easy to say that there is still extreme gender inequality in the world. Maybe not nearly this extreme in Western society, but the rest of the world still exists and feminism is most certainly needed in cultures such as this.

Secondly, let me give a few examples in modern western society. Elliot Rodger is an example of a boy who killed people because one girl rejected him. Within this case itself, he says incredibly sexist things in a video he recorded before he shot people. Not only that, but much of the response to this by men was that "she shouldn't have lead him on". Also, in reference to rape culture as a whole, many videos on youtube for example this one also show how people accuse the victim as the reason for the incidents happening. Even if not explicit, asking a victim of harassment or rape "what were you wearing?" is sexism in western society at it's finest. And, if you flip the coin, if it's a male that has been raped, I have seen (I can't find but may be able to later on) many men replying to such news articles/etc that "he should have enjoyed it" or "lucky *******". No. Again, that is a perfect example of rape culture and how any man that gets laid or raped is lucky and any woman who gets laid is a slut or any woman who gets raped was asking for it.

It may not be incredibly explicit sexism, and perhaps not everyone supports such things, but examples such as those are very much within Western society.

Although I do agree that gender equality has gotten better, we are still a long way from it - not just for females, but for males too.

EDIT: It might also be worthwhile to point out that I have experiences sexism first hand and that this is not all just from reading stuff on the internet. Although I can't provide sources, last year one boy in my sixth form literally said that "boys are cleverer than girls" (he was being completely serious), and my maths teacher only a few weeks ago was making jokes about how girls can't play sports and watching a girl play sports is boring (he said that the reason the person in the math question didn't have a high probability of hitting the ball was because the person was a girl). If those aren't examples of western sexism then idrk what to say anymore.
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BobbieShamrock
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#337
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#337
(Original post by 506rl)
Hi. Sorry that people on tumblr seem to have annoyed you, but maybe you misunderstand the meaning of feminism?

Feminism is literally the supporting of gender equality.

So, you support gender equality?

That makes you a feminist.

To say that it doesn't is kind of like saying "I believe in god, but I'm not religious", when religion is basically believing in god, no matter what form or kind of religion it is.

Even I will admit that a lot of posts on tumblr are just stupid. But maybe you fail to realise that most "feminists" on tumblr are either a) radical feminists (i.e. extreme) or b) 12 year olds who don't actually know what they are talking about. Infact, probably around 80% of the stuff about sexism is not reliable at all. So yes, you do have a right to find a lot of stuff on tumblr annoying. But why does that mean you are not a feminist?

Going back to the comparison to religion earlier, just because there may be horrible people in one religion (like, idk, homophobics in christianity maybe?) doesn't mean that someone is no longer going to identify as that religion. Just because you identify as something doesn't mean you are associated with everyone who also identifies as that. So just because there are some stupid uneducated 12 year old feminist-wannabes on tumblr doesn't mean that you shouldn't identify as being a feminist.

Sorry for the long post, tl;dr: You're a feminist if you believe in gender equality.
I disagree. Feminism is a movement, it is not the belief in itself.
Same with religion. If I believed in god but didn't follow a particular religion, I would not be religious.

I personally know a few 'tumblr feminists', and I would not describe them as radical or stupid, yet they seem to represent the feminist movement as a whole pretty well.

I don't believe that modern feminism is helping anyone, so how can I call myself a feminist?
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kudzi.c
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#338
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#338
(Original post by SnoochToTheBooch)
How about changing the name from feminism for a start
So you'd prefer egalitarianism as a term? Doesn't that take away from the history of feminism?
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kudzi.c
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#339
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#339
(Original post by there's too much love)
The bigger problem as I see it is people believing that when they're not at school or work they don't need to think. As such behaviours that are done are at times simply never given a second thought.
Even in those settings it's not uncommon to hear some disturbing things:
Triggering language is in this post:
Spoiler:
Show

Therefore people get into bad habits and follow the mob mentality more. Meaning that when someone is wimping out of something they're 'pussing out'. When someone is 'raped' they've been dominated in a game. When someone is annoying they are 'gay'.


Until people are willing to a) take responsibility for the things they say and b) bother to use even the smallest amount of reflective thinking to look back at how they've been they won't bother to be feminists, or generally thinking people in many circumstances. They might be part time feminists, but they'll say things contradictory to the feminists views they at other times express.
Fair enough, how would you suggest we get people to do your a) and b)
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Spetznaaz
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#340
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#340
(Original post by TolerantBeing)
The only relation it has to poison is that for some reason you feel threatened by it, or fear of it. However unlike with poison, your fears aren't justified.
Lol no, i do not fear feminism. It does make me sad though, to see how impressionable / stupid many humans are.

(Original post by hdaindak)
ignorance
Are you trying to say i'm ignorant?

Ignorant to what exactly?
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