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My favourite pro veganism quotation! watch

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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    I don't think humans and animals are equal though. Rock climber thinks humans and ALL ANIMALS including things like coral and parasites are equal. If I was to break a bit of coral or kill some parasites, to him, that is murder, because killing of any animal is as a bad as murder and rape, pedophilia etc.
    I don't understand this reply. I didn't say you thought all were equal, I was presenting an argument to support the claim that they should be treated relatively equally.

    However, even if you disagree with that notion, that does not justify eating meat.
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    My favourite quote for those who think they need meat:

    "The stamina of a camel, the strength of an elephant, and the beauty of a horse are all sustained on a vegetarian diet."
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    (Original post by cbreef)
    Just eat the damn food. You wouldnt be here without it. Easiest source of protein
    Can you not tell other people what to do? I'll get my protein wherever I want to.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    No,

    athletes do everything to get that 0.1% improvement in what they do. Anything to make any improvement, now matter how significant it is. There is research and thought that goes behind an athletes diet. If a vegan diet was more beneficial, they would be on them.
    True, but I never said they were MORE beneficial. Just that it may not be any worse.

    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Have you ever considered why so few of them are inclined to become vegans? Couldn't possibly be because they're told that it's best for their career not to or anything by people that actually know what they're talking about.
    Well, people in general are less inclined to become vegans than not, obviously. But I'm sure the percentage among pro athletes is significantly lower. I don't think it's because it's inherently bad for athletic performance, though. It'd definitely be more difficult, and that probably contributes a lot. No doubt the NFL player I posted about above has to put even more time and money into his diet and supplements than other non-vegan players already do.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I don't understand this reply. I didn't say you thought all were equal, I was presenting an argument to support the claim that they should be treated relatively equally.

    However, even if you disagree with that notion, that does not justify eating meat.
    I, and the majority of the population, eat meat because we choose to. It's as simple as that. I've seen all of the documentaries on battery hens, foie gras, cows, lambs, pigs being burnt alive, dogs being boiled alive, fish SERVED whilst still alive. I've seen it all. I've seen the throats being cut. I've seen the blood spurt with the terrified look on the cows face. I've had to kill animals myself in person (survival course).

    I still eat meat. I do my best to ensure it's reared responsibly and as 'ethically' as possible. I ensure it's genuinely free range, grass fed with full tracability back to the farm. I pay so much money for my meat and eggs because of this. That's about as far as it will go. I will not give up meat in the not so distant future.
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    (Original post by e aí rapaz)
    True, but I never said they were MORE beneficial. Just that it may not be any worse.



    Well, people in general are less inclined to become vegans than not, obviously. But I'm sure the percentage among pro athletes is significantly lower. I don't think it's because it's inherently bad for athletic performance, though. It'd definitely be more difficult, and that probably contributes a lot. No doubt the NFL player I posted about above has to put even more time and money into his diet and supplements than other non-vegan players already do.
    There's research to suggest that animal proteins are more beneficial than soy/nut proteins, can't find the paper/book but it's somewhere around!
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    I, and the majority of the population, eat meat because we choose to. It's as simple as that. I've seen all of the documentaries on battery hens, foie gras, cows, lambs, pigs being burnt alive, dogs being boiled alive, fish SERVED whilst still alive. I've seen it all. I've seen the throats being cut. I've seen the blood spurt with the terrified look on the cows face. I've had to kill animals myself in person (survival course).

    I still eat meat. I do my best to ensure it's reared responsibly and as 'ethically' as possible. I ensure it's genuinely free range, grass fed with full tracability back to the farm. I pay so much money for my meat and eggs because of this. That's about as far as it will go. I will not give up meat in the not so distant future.
    *sigh*. You asked :
    "i still don't get why you think it's okay for animals to eat other animals but not for humans to eat animals, BECAUSE you said we're all equals? "

    I answered the reasons behind such a view.

    You're not ignoring my answer.

    It's not more a choice to discriminate against animals than it is for a slave owner to discriminate against slaves.

    Why would you ask a question only to disregard (as opposed to counter) the answer you get?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    *sigh*. You asked :
    "i still don't get why you think it's okay for animals to eat other animals but not for humans to eat animals, BECAUSE you said we're all equals? "

    I answered the reasons behind such a view.

    You're not ignoring my answer.

    It's not more a choice to discriminate against animals than it is for a slave owner to discriminate against slaves.

    Why would you ask a question only to disregard (as opposed to counter) the answer you get?
    The question was not addressed to you. You didn't answer at all.

    So, I'll ask you, since you're so eager.

    Do you think, that human beings and parasites are equal. Not 'relatively', equal, but fully equal. They deserve the same treatment and subject to the same rights as other human beings. That's what equal is. He said yes. Yes we are equal to parasites. It's earlier in the thread.

    Also, I'm not trying to counter veganism. Vegans are great. Supply and demand. It's gonna make my meat cheaper when the demand is less.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    The question was not addressed to you. You didn't answer at all.

    So, I'll ask you, since you're so eager.

    Do you think, that human beings and parasites are equal. Not 'relatively', equal, but fully equal. They deserve the same treatment and subject to the same rights as other human beings. That's what equal is. He said yes. Yes we are equal to parasites. It's earlier in the thread.

    Also, I'm not trying to counter veganism. Vegans are great. Supply and demand. It's gonna make my meat cheaper when the demand is less.
    See previous responses. Equality is not based on species membership but the individual.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    See previous responses. Equality is not based on species membership but the individual.
    Can't believe you are still wasting time on that guy! Valiant my vegan friend
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    See previous responses. Equality is not based on species membership but the individual.
    Who would you save if a dog and a child were stuck in a river, both having equal chances of survival, but only enough time to save one?

    Which one would you pick? I ask because I'm curious.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Can't believe you are still wasting time on that guy! Valiant my vegan friend
    Are all your family vegan?
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    There's research to suggest that animal proteins are more beneficial than soy/nut proteins, can't find the paper/book but it's somewhere around!
    No, the protein is exactly the same. The amount of protein varies between sources.

    Meat contains a lot of fat as well as protein. There is nothing in meat that cannot be found in other sources. This includes vitamin supplements.

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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Are all your family vegan?
    They're all vegetarian.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    It's because I have certain carb/protein/fat requirements. I eat 500g of chicken breast in two days, that's £5 already. Then things like vegetables (tenderstem broccoli is £2 a pack?!!, that lasts one day!), it just really adds up. I don't like cheap ingredients, such as 30p for a 1kg bag of pasta. If I do eat pasta, which is rare, I will ensure it's the high quality stuff, which has a much nicer, rougher texture. Duck is £7 for about 300g, and I eat lots of sirloin/fillet steak. I am a student, but food is one of life's greatest pleasures. I'm not spending my younger years surviving off a can of baked beans and some pasta.

    So where I can, I'll make sure everything is as fresh as possible, without being ridiculous. (Tescos do 'organic' chicken breast at about 250g, for £9, that's outrageous!)

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Healthy-Orig...rds=vitamin+d3

    I'm pretty sure I paid like £8, but £13 for 360 capsules (the capsules come in oil so you don't have to eat it with a source of fat). Where are you getting your D3 from?! :P
    So yes, you are bad with your money

    You can buy like 5 normal broccoli for 2 quid XD

    I assume you're getting fish derived ones then - cant do that - I'm veggie.
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    (Original post by JD1lla)
    Who would you save if a dog and a child were stuck in a river, both having equal chances of survival, but only enough time to save one?

    Which one would you pick? I ask because I'm curious.
    The one whose death would, in my opinion, produce the least suffering.
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    (Original post by rock_climber86)
    Hello,

    I drink more Jasmine/green tea than normal tea. It is better for you as it has no fat/sugar/crap. They also have antioxidants and increase your metabolism so you burn calories faster when not exercising either. I'm super skinny (just under 55kg), and it's probably due to the fact that i've got a super fast metabolism. You can increase your metabolism through green teas and eating spicy foods. Of course there is a genetic element too but the above does help.

    I only drink normal tea once a day, normally. And I used to dislike almond and soya milk too, but you get used to it. I moved from sweetened soya milk to unsweetened soya milk and when I got used to those two then onto unsweetened almond milk. Try moving onto the unsweetened stuff gradually. Since you're addicted to sugar (and have a sweet tooth), it'll take time to ween yourself off the high sugar products. Try eliminate it bit-by-bit and maybe find healthy alternatives. E.g in stead of chocolates try eat nakd coco bars which are made with dates and nuts, no processed sugars. Instead of digestives and chocolate digestives stick to rich tea. Look at the ingredients and note the sugar/fat content. Try go for the foods with low sugar. Rich tea is great because they have 1g sugar per biscuit, which is lowest i've seen compared to 4.3g I think chocolate digestives have. Oh btw, Rich tea is free of animal products, yes. McVities digestives aren't though - they contain whey powder.

    Missing lunch isn't the worst thing you could do. You could have a banana or clementine for lunch? I think missing lunch slows down your metabolism I read somewhere. People who have small meals more frequently seem to have faster metabolisms so you could try this approach. It would complement exercise well too.

    Read this about coke. If that won't put you off fizzy drinks, nothing will. Cartoned orange juice is crap too.
    http://www.trueactivist.com/20-estab...he-human-body/

    You have to look after your body because no one else will. Cooking and eating healthily is part of that. Of course if you are rich then you can pay someone to cook healthy meals for you, but until then, take responsibility. When my mum makes something I don't like and don't want to eat I make my own food and wash up after myself. Even if we're tired we have to eat right? If you are really really really tired then have a smoothie and some bread and hummus or something. or maybe just roast a potato and chuck some beans over it or something. Maybe even make a sandwich with veg in it - that's easy peasy. Chinese food can be nice if done right. Can I suggest you try vegan chinese food? Something without meat? Maybe you'll find that more appetising. My favourite chinese dish is 'veggie chicken' with peppers and black bean sauce. Fairly healthy, spicy and super tasty! You can even stir fry some veg, chuck in some cooked rice and dabble a bit of salt and pepper and soya sauce - easy peasy!

    Tea making is easy. Boil water, put teabag in mug, pour boiling water over it. stir for a minute or two, squeeze out teabag with two spoons, and bin it, then add a bit of milk to the mug with the black stuff in it and stir! Done! As simple as that. You can add sugar but it's bad for you so try cut it down/out altogether.

    As for your friend laughing about knives. That is cruel. Just ignore her and tell her we're not all knife geniuses or something. You'll soon learn what knife works best for cheese by trial and error. Usually something flat, thin and sharp does the trick.

    As for your friend, the only thing I can suggest is perhaps show her my last few posts and let her decide whether she really cares about her body to make a change. At the end of the day it is her choice. It's all good you trying to persuade her but if she doesn't want it enough, no amount of persuasion on your part will make her change. She was to want something badly enough to make it happen.

    For veg smoothies try something healthy and bitter like kale and something sweet like strawberries and blueberries and kiwis. I would also add a frozen banana and enough soyamilk so it is somewhat runny so you can drink it. I've personally never tried broccoli! I am not sure it can be smoothied! Google is your friend. Google everything you ask me and i'm sure you'll find a post about it somewhere on the internet. That's what I do.
    I'm back!

    Ah, Jasmine tea is another one I forgot to ask about. I didn't know that those types of tea could increase a person's metabolism; that's very handy.After a quick conversion of kg into stone, you're about the same weight as me. I'm normally anywhere between 8 and 9 stone; it fluctuates.
    Spicy food is nice but I need a lot of water to counter it. Haha!

    I just returned from my trip out. My mother rejected my idea of getting a smoothie machine, saying it would be a "five minute wonder", but I managed to convince her to let me get some strawberries and blueberries. I'm going to blend them with a banana for after dinner tonight. She also wanted to buy chocolate but I declined, and now I'm feeling quite proud of myself, not to sound too smug. Perhaps next time I'll do as you suggest and try freezing the banana first. I also want to try raspberries at some point; I've never had them and they looked tempting.
    I'm definitely going to keep the rich tea in mind, and I had no idea that whey powder originated from animals. I guess I can do the same with biscuits as I did with croissants; I asked my mother not to buy them because if they're not there, I can't have them. It worked; I don't eat them anymore.

    Haha! I expected you to bite my head off about missing lunch; that's what everyone else does. I guess I could each a banana; the good thing about them is that they come with their own wrapper so I don't have to worry about contamination so much.

    I'm showing the article about Coke to my brother. He drinks far too much of it and now I know why it burns; it's like battery acid. I don't understand how anyone can consume fizzy drinks; they don't even taste of anything. My mother wanted to put orange juice in my first smoothie and no. Just no. I want it to just be the berries and the banana, and nothing else.

    I love the idea of having a sandwich for dinner. I keep telling my mother that she doesn't have to cook me steak or anything like that, and that I could just have a sandwich instead because that doesn't even take up any cooker space. She nearly always tells me that I need "a proper dinner" and that a sandwich "isn't enough to fill me up", which is rubbish because my stomach is the size of a pea. Steak is expensive and chewy and gristly.I want to go to uni next year so hopefully then I'll have more freedom and a smaller budget.

    I've had a Chinese vegetable roll; that was nice, and noodles are awesome. If I have the opportunity, I'll try something without meat, which could've been the reason I didn't like it. Duck is way too fatty for me. You just have to be careful with what restaurants you go to these days; you have no idea what their kitchens are like and I get paranoid when it comes to dirt.

    Thank you for the tea making lesson! Haha! I'm going to try it at some point during the week, if not for me then for my mother or my friend. I'm sure she didn't mean any harm by laughing at my knife skills; we still joke about it from time to time. A running gag is that I'm clumsy and have no common sense, which I can't deny. I'll tell my friend what you've said and hope that it has an impact. I invite her to my house to lift weights with me, which she agrees to. Deep down, I know you're right; if I'm not around to stop her, she'll give in to temptation. I once had to stop her from having two lunches in the same day.

    Google may be my friend, but it was still nice to speak with someone first-hand; I really appreciate the tips you've given me and I've come this far so I might as well go further. If I can cut out crisps and chips, I should be able to cut out chocolate.
    I understand that you're busy, and I have coursework, so you don't have to respond to this message if you don't want to.
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    No, the protein is exactly the same. The amount of protein varies between sources.

    Meat contains a lot of fat as well as protein. There is nothing in meat that cannot be found in other sources. This includes vitamin supplements.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Also it is important to remember where animals in the meat industry get their protein from. They get it from plants! . Protein is effectively passing down the foodchain in a slightly more concentrated form through meat, but in essence it all comes from plants, so that's why it's dumb to assume we can't get enough protein from plants. I don't see anyone questioning a gorilla, elephant or ox where they get their protein from, and they're ****ing huge!
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    (Original post by Katty3)
    No, the protein is exactly the same. The amount of protein varies between sources.

    Meat contains a lot of fat as well as protein. There is nothing in meat that cannot be found in other sources. This includes vitamin supplements.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Flavour.

    I get 5% fat mince. That's hardly any fat in the grand scheme of things. Nothing wrong with a nice serving of saturated fat anyway.

    Protein is not all the same. Where did you get this information from? Look up 'complete' protein sources and 'incomplete' protein sources.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    The one whose death would, in my opinion, produce the least suffering.
    You are purposely avoiding saying the child.
 
 
 
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