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Feminist reaction to kesha contract trial shows why it's scary to be accused of rape. watch

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    The law of consent isn't clear. You are right but what can be done? There is no easy and simple way to define it or what negates it. Everything is very fact dependent.

    But there are a lot of cases where women feel they have been coerced (either physically or otherwise) into having sex against their will. Regretting sex is not the same as not consenting, but again I really don't think vast numbers of women maliciously make up allegations.

    The most general way one could define rape would be using an illegal method to cause someone to consent to/have intercourse when otherwise they would not have agreed to, whether that be threats, bullying, physical violence, drugs etc but of course there is a lot of scope for differing opinions within that.

    It's a tricky area yeah but there's a huge problem that the crime is so under-reported and the ones that are, are badly prosecuted.
    There have been a few cases which suggests there people maliciously making up allegations like the Durham uni student who was charged because someone felt guilty of cheating and the man who was taking to court for walking past someone these cases will not go on the false allegation statistics but they will count towards the sex crimes not successfully prosecuted.

    I would argue that they are not badly prosecuted but that it is because of uncertainty in the law makes it hard to prosecute (not sure how to fix it but someone has to find the solution)

    In the reported crimes some of those people believe any alcohol makes consent invalid, these cases count towards the statistics and there are similar things said some people believe you can withdraw consent after the even these are also included.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    There have been a few cases which suggests there people maliciously making up allegations like the Durham uni student who was charged because someone felt guilty of cheating and the man who was taking to court for walking past someone these cases will not go on the false allegation statistics but they will count towards the sex crimes not successfully prosecuted.
    Yes there have been a few but they are very rare, which is why the ones that happen are quite high profile.

    I would argue that they are not badly prosecuted but that it is because of uncertainty in the law makes it hard to prosecute (not sure how to fix it but someone has to find the solution)
    They have been very badly prosecuted. Up until recently, the prosecutors were not allowed to speak to the victim about her statement before making a decision whether to charge or not. Often when a person has been raped, it is a traumatic experience and they are unlikely to be able to give a fully coherent, consistent account to the police. This made it unlikely that a case will proceed to court because the prosecutors had no opportunity to understand the inconsistencies in a statement.

    In the reported crimes some of those people believe any alcohol makes consent invalid, these cases count towards the statistics and there are similar things said some people believe you can withdraw consent after the even these are also included.
    I don't know anyone who thinks any alcohol makes consent invalid, I can't imagine it's a lot of people. Alcohol doesn't, but being so drunk that you can't form a coherent yes or you're drifting in and out of consciousness clearly is not valid.
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    (Original post by Truths)
    She may not have understood just how exploitative the contract was when she signed it. She was a teenager after all and now as an adult its ****ing with her freedom and finances.
    Gone are the days when Dr Luke could have made bank on Kesha, so he should just release her and let her be. What he's doing now does seem very spiteful.

    And I believe it's still very possible that he raped her.
    What it sounds like you are looking for is for the law to protect people from their own ignorance/regret, good luck with that.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    It is possible that he has but there is no evidence.

    So he should just give away millions, he has and is keeping to his part of the agreement and is entitled to make sure he gets what he is owed in return.

    What is wrong is that you think it would be ok to claim rape even if it didn't happen to destroy an innocent man.
    That's the thing tho. He's not making millions of her. So long as she refuses to release music he will not make a penny. It's clearly a control thing for Dr. Luke. It's out of spite.

    And Dr. Luke is not innocent. He may not be guilty of rape, but he certainly isn't innocent.
    What I believe is, is that if someone is at war with you and it's affecting your finances and livelihood than all is fair that comes out of your war chest.

    You need to understand that it's a different game for celebrities. If it was any pedestrian case, it would definitely be too much. But if Dr Luke didn't do it, the chances of him seeing an indictment is zero. The worst that will come out of it is that his reputation is ruined, it will affect future business endeavours, but he's not gonna go broke like Kesha. She could end his career tomo and still be sitting on his millions.
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    (Original post by Mancini)
    What it sounds like you are looking for is for the law to protect people from their own ignorance/regret, good luck with that.
    There is such a thing as contract fraud
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    (Original post by Truths)
    That's the thing tho. He's not making millions of her. So long as she refuses to release music he will not make a penny. It's clearly a control thing for Dr. Luke. It's out of spite.

    And Dr. Luke is not innocent. He may not be guilty of rape, but he certainly isn't innocent.
    What I believe is, is that if someone is at war with you and it's affecting your finances and livelihood than all is fair that comes out of your war chest.

    You need to understand that it's a different game for celebrities. If it was any pedestrian case, it would definitely be too much. But if Dr Luke didn't do it, the chances of him seeing an indictment is zero. The worst that will come out of it is that his reputation is ruined, it will affect future business endeavours, but he's not gonna go broke like Kesha. She could end his career tomo and still be sitting on his millions.
    What is more likely to happen is that the claims with found to be baseless and Dr Luke's defamation claim will prove successful further destroying Kesha's funds.

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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What is more likely to happen is that the claims with found to be baseless and Dr Luke's defamation claim will prove successful further destroying Kesha's funds.

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    The lawsuit was already dismissed.
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    (Original post by Truths)
    The lawsuit was already dismissed.
    And the suit against Kesha's lawyer?

    EDIT: The suit against Kesha is still on going, the suit against Kesha's mother was dismissed.

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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    And the suit against Kesha's lawyer?

    EDIT: The suit against Kesha is still on going, the suit against Kesha's mother was dismissed.

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    Ok. And what's your point? That Kesha will lose?
    She lost the moment she signed the contract. Now she's bringing him down to lose with her.
    And I can't say I wouldn't do the same. Should have just called it truce and released her. It's not uncommon for artists to be released from contract. Especially when they are inactive, unprofitable or damaging. It's an uphill battle Luke chose for himself, God knows why. I believe personal reasons are at play.
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    (Original post by Truths)
    That's the thing tho. He's not making millions of her. So long as she refuses to release music he will not make a penny. It's clearly a control thing for Dr. Luke. It's out of spite.

    And Dr. Luke is not innocent. He may not be guilty of rape, but he certainly isn't innocent.
    What I believe is, is that if someone is at war with you and it's affecting your finances and livelihood than all is fair that comes out of your war chest.

    You need to understand that it's a different game for celebrities. If it was any pedestrian case, it would definitely be too much. But if Dr Luke didn't do it, the chances of him seeing an indictment is zero. The worst that will come out of it is that his reputation is ruined, it will affect future business endeavours, but he's not gonna go broke like Kesha. She could end his career tomo and still be sitting on his millions.
    He is entitled to enforce the contract and doesn't have to let her out of it, show me where the law says you can just leave contracts.

    If he releases her he gets nothing and she gets millions even though she is pushing this with no evidence and he is currently innocent, why should she be rewarded?

    It isn't a control thing it is a important legal issue.

    What is he guilty of? Negotiating a contract that favours him?

    You say all is fair in war but this isn't war this is the law and it favours dr Luke.

    So because he is rich he isn't entitled to the same protection in law as everyone else.

    You are literally saying the law doesn't apply to kesha and I can only assume you feel the same way about all women.
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    (Original post by Truths)
    Ok. And what's your point? That Kesha will lose?
    She lost the moment she signed the contract. Now she's bringing him down to lose with her.
    And I can't say I wouldn't do the same. Should have just called it truce and released her. It's not uncommon for artists to be released from contract. Especially when they are inactive, unprofitable or damaging. It's an uphill battle Luke chose for himself, God knows why. I believe personal reasons are at play.
    She lost the minute she fought against a contact which was heavily negotiated. She knew what she was signing and now she wants out by any means even if that means crying rape.

    Dr Luke will probably not fall since this isn't the first time he has been accused of rape.

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    (Original post by Truths)
    There is such a thing as contract fraud
    What fraud has been committed here?

    Or are we just throwing around contract law terms? Promissory estoppel
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    (Original post by Truths)
    There is such a thing as contract fraud
    You should change your name to comedian.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    He is entitled to enforce the contract and doesn't have to let her out of it, show me where the law says you can just leave contracts.

    If he releases her he gets nothing and she gets millions even though she is pushing this with no evidence and he is currently innocent, why should she be rewarded?

    It isn't a control thing it is a important legal issue.

    What is he guilty of? Negotiating a contract that favours him?

    You say all is fair in war but this isn't war this is the law and it favours dr Luke.

    So because he is rich he isn't entitled to the same protection in law as everyone else.

    You are literally saying the law doesn't apply to kesha and I can only assume you feel the same way about all women.
    I said none of this so I don't know where you're getting that from :lol:
    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    She lost the minute she fought against a contact which was heavily negotiated. She knew what she was signing and now she wants out by any means even if that means crying rape.

    Dr Luke will probably not fall since this isn't the first time he has been accused of rape.

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    For real? Now I'm even more inclined to believe he's a rapist. I hope he wasn't the reason Simone Battle killed herself :/

    (Original post by joecphillips)
    What fraud has been committed here?
    Apparently none in this case. Tho I never said there was. I'm just letting you know in the context of contracts yes there are laws that "protect people from their own ignorance".
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    (Original post by Truths)
    For real? Now I'm even more inclined to believe he's a rapist. I hope he wasn't the reason Simone Battle killed herself :/
    Really, Kesha's lawyer accused him of raping Lady Gaga which was proven to be completely false by both Lady Gaga and her agent. The lawyer is being sued for deformation.

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    (Original post by Truths)
    I said none of this so I don't know where you're getting that from :lol:


    For real? Now I'm even more inclined to believe he's a rapist. I hope he wasn't the reason Simone Battle killed herself :/



    Apparently none in this case. Tho I never said there was. I'm just letting you know in the context of contracts yes there are laws that "protect people from their own ignorance".
    I am getting this from what you have said

    Well what do you mean saying kesha is right and that he isn't some innocent victim?
    What law has he broken?
    And if this turns out to be a false accusation why don't you feel bad for the victim?
    You have said it is fair she is doing this.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Really, Kesha's lawyer accused him of raping Lady Gaga which was proven to be completely false by both Lady Gaga and her agent. The lawyer is being sued for deformation.

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    It was denied by one of her public reps, not gaga herself. Gaga has come out in support of Kesha quite passionately, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more to the story.
    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I am getting this from what you have said

    Well what do you mean saying kesha is right and that he isn't some innocent victim?
    What law has he broken?
    And if this turns out to be a false accusation why don't you feel bad for the victim?
    You have said it is fair she is doing this.
    He's not innocent imo because he treated Kesha poorly. Well from what I have read it seems he did. And if the rape was true even worse.
    And then there's the whole contract thing which I don't like. She's contracted to release at least 10 more albums. Most artists don't even make 10 albums in a lifetime. As she was a teenager when she signed it, I can't help but feel sympathetic to her situation.
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    (Original post by Truths)
    It was denied by one of her public reps, not gaga herself. Gaga has come out in support of Kesha quite passionately, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more to the story.

    He's not innocent imo because he treated Kesha poorly. Well from what I have read it seems he did. And if the rape was true even worse.
    And then there's the whole contract thing which I don't like. She's contracted to release at least 10 more albums. Most artists don't even make 10 albums in a lifetime. As she was a teenager when she signed it, I can't help but feel sympathetic to her situation.
    What offence is it to negotiate a contract that is beneficial to you?
    It is not 10 more albums it is 4 or 5 it wasn't even a 10 album deal.
    She was an adult when she signed it, she had a choice she could of said no and gone elsewhere.
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    (Original post by Truths)
    It was denied by one of her public reps, not gaga herself. Gaga has come out in support of Kesha quite passionately, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more to the story.

    He's not innocent imo because he treated Kesha poorly. Well from what I have read it seems he did. And if the rape was true even worse.
    And then there's the whole contract thing which I don't like. She's contracted to release at least 10 more albums. Most artists don't even make 10 albums in a lifetime. As she was a teenager when she signed it, I can't help but feel sympathetic to her situation.
    I'm not sure where you got the 10 album deal contract last I read she has to make 6 albums for the company.

    clearly written on this site below

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...llegation.html

    So you are just making assumptions about her contract and Dr Luke out of thin air?

    Also this quote below from vanity fair.

    ''Kesha’s contract, as the label has repeatedly stipulated since the original suits were filed, was for six albums; thus far she’s released two, Animal and Warrior (her 2010 EP Cannibal doesn’t count here).''

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/...r-luke-lawsuit
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    (Original post by Truths)
    It was denied by one of her public reps, not gaga herself. Gaga has come out in support of Kesha quite passionately, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more to the story.
    More to the story like a someone trying to get out of a contract?
 
 
 
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