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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    How do you judge a group you don't judge it on its formation or actions so how?
    Back to you.

    Do you judge the group on the actions of a few people? if so, then Americans are all like George Bush or Donald Trump. Do you judge a group on the comments of a few supporters? If so, then Britons are all like Nigel Farage or racist Nick Griffin from the BNP.

    You see for me to make sure an assertion will be stupid. Those who voted for Nigel Farage (4 million of them) from the UKIP party are not racist or anti-anything. All they want is the best for the UK.

    It is void of any logical reasoning for someone to assert that the Black Lives Matter campaign should be judged on the actions/comments of a few supporters, but the Germans should not be judged by the actions of Hitler, the Americans should not be judged by the atrocities done in the Middle East or Japan (Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bomb) etc
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    A “Black Lives Matter” march against police brutality in Oakland turned ugly, with protesters reportedly attacking a journalist, smashing shopfront windows, throwing bottles, and defacing the main Christmas tree in the heart of the city
    https://www.rt.com/usa/217835-oaklan...lack-violence/

    Go have a look at Ferguson and Baltimore are those peaceful?
    There have even been plans to bomb Ferguson police.

    So rioting, looting and arson aside pretty peaceful.

    Have they not asked for segregated buildings then?
    Of course people become angry when there is a prevalent racism within the justice system, riots are a way of people to get the message across, however wrong it may be. Its message still remains a peaceful one.

    If you think that when there is an underlying racism within the establishment and peaceful methods are successful in combatting them, you are wrong.

    And i rest my case, the vast majority are peaceful.
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    (Original post by PrincePaul575858)
    I always say NEVER EVER take what I say to be fact. I say, go and check it out and do the research yourself and find out for yourself if what I am saying is a lie.
    That isn't how things work. You can't say something is true and then if someone asks you to prove it just say 'Google it'.

    (Original post by SophieBarlow87)
    I think its narrow minded to saty that there is only one reason why people join isis. But i do agree the comparison is overreaching, however my particular comment was in response to someone saying that blaming the police force is like blaming islam for isis.
    They join because they've been radicalised, there are many reasons why someone might be radicalised, but that is the reason for joining Isis.

    Blaming all police officers for the actions of a few and blaming all Muslims for the actions of a few; I don't see the difference.


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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Back to you.

    Do you judge the group on the actions of a few people? if so, then Americans are all like George Bush or Donald Trump. Do you judge a group on the comments of a few supporters? If so, then Britons are all like Nigel Farage or racist Nick Griffin from the BNP.

    You see for me to make sure an assertion will be stupid. Those who voted for Nigel Farage (4 million of them) from the UKIP party are not racist or anti-anything. All they want is the best for the UK.

    It is void of any logical reasoning for someone to assert that the Black Lives Matter campaign should be judged on the actions/comments of a few supporters, but the Germans should not be judged by the actions of Hitler, the Americans should not be judged by the atrocities done in the Middle East or Japan (Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bomb) etc
    Answer the question how do you judge a group?
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    Of course people become angry when there is a prevalent racism within the justice system, riots are a way of people to get the message across, however wrong it may be. Its message still remains a peaceful one.

    If you think that when there is an underlying racism within the establishment and peaceful methods are successful in combatting them, you are wrong.

    And i rest my case, the vast majority are peaceful.
    Blacks commit violent crime 4x more than others
    They are shot by police 2.46 times more the numbers do not add up to racism if anything whites should be scared

    We're the London riots were peaceful as well then?
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I'm not saying that something shouldn't happen about a small problem that they claim to stand for which is police brutality but the statistics don't back their point.

    They also demand segregation and commit crime you would think if they were afraid of police brutality they wouldn't go around committing violent crime what could get them a visit from the police
    Statistics of what? That the number of black people being killed or treated badly by Police officers are marginal.

    In September 2001, approximately 4,000 lives were lost in the atrocities. With regard to total number of Americans, based on the fact that the US has about 300 million citizens. That is less that 1/1,000,000. However, the US went to war because every American live is important.

    Even if it is 1% of all black deaths are caused by Police brutality. It is totally justified that black people must campaign against such brutality.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Blacks commit violent crime 4x more than others
    They are shot by police 2.46 times more the numbers do not add up to racism if anything whites should be scared
    Fear is what leads to racism. We've already heard the stats but black lives matter is concerned with innocent blacks killed, all these other stats are irrelevant.
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    Fear is what leads to racism. We've already heard the stats but black lives matter is concerned with innocent blacks killed, all these other stats are irrelevant.
    When they use the stats of blacks shot to say look it is racist context is relevant
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Statistics of what? That the number of black people being killed or treated badly by Police officers are marginal.

    In September 2001, approximately 4,000 lives were lost in the atrocities. With regard to total number of Americans, based on the fact that the US has about 300 million citizens. That is less that 1/1,000,000. However, the US went to war because every American live is important.

    Even if it is 1% of all black deaths are caused by Police brutality. It is totally justified that black people must campaign against such brutality.
    I'm not saying that police brutality shouldn't be protested but bringing race into it and the tactics this group uses does not solve the problem it makes it worse
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Answer the question how do you judge a group?
    You judge the group on the whole. The good and the bad. You speak out against the bad and demand justice for them; but you support the good with your very being.

    You should read the whole thread. Many people and I have maintained that there are bad eggs in the movement, just like all movements. The leaders and other supporters have spoken out and fought against these bad eggs. However, despite the bad eggs, one must still support the movement because it campaigns against police brutality against black people.

    Blindly focusing on the negative without supporting the whole will detract from the real reason there is a movement in the first place.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    When they use the stats of blacks shot to say look it is racist context is relevant
    What's your problem? What do you have against BLM movement?
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    What's your problem? What do you have against BLM movement?
    The movement is racist, it has nothing to do with any type of equality, look at what it has demanded.

    They have said that banning segregation is racist.

    Do you believe in Martin Luther kings I have a dream speech?
    This movement goes against that
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    You judge the group on the whole. The good and the bad. You speak out against the bad and demand justice for them; but you support the good with your very being.

    You should read the whole thread. Many people and I have maintained that there are bad eggs in the movement, just like all movements. The leaders and other supporters have spoken out and fought against these bad eggs. However, despite the bad eggs, one must still support the movement because it campaigns against police brutality against black people.

    Blindly focusing on the negative without supporting the whole will detract from the real reason there is a movement in the first place.
    The leaders have stated how they took inspiration from people on Americas most wanted list for murdering a police officer in cold blood.

    The leader of Blm in Toronto was tweeting about killing "men and white work" recently"

    They have demanded segregation

    As I have said i have nothing against protesting police brutality but this group isn't that and it is creating problems not solving anything.

    Mlk didn't say he has a dream where the races are forced apart he talked about bringing them together this movement doesn't do that
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    I'm not saying that police brutality shouldn't be protested but bringing race into it and the tactics this group uses does not solve the problem it makes it worse
    Thank you. We are getting somewhere.

    We both agree that Police brutality should be protested. Now the main issue is whether black people should protest against police brutality.

    When the atrocities happened in Brussels and Paris, why did people say "Je suis Paris or Bruxelles?" why didn't people just say "Je suis the World" After all, there have been attacks in India, Lebanon, the US, Nigeria, Kenya, Mali, Tunisia, Germany and so on. It was not about that it was the focus of the French and the Belgians. In the darkest moment, they came together and sang with pride that ""they were Paris and Brussels." The world sang in unison and stood strong with them.

    You can use this analogy for black lives matter. Black people, within their communities, sang or shouted with pride that their lives matter. It was not against white people or Asian people. It was against a systematic treatment of black people by the Police. Yes, black on black crime is high and, yes, other racial communities have faced similar problems. However, it does not mean that black people should not come together and campaign against a problem that they are facing.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    The movement is racist, it has nothing to do with any type of equality, look at what it has demanded.

    They have said that banning segregation is racist.

    Do you believe in Martin Luther kings I have a dream speech?
    This movement goes against that
    It's not racist, making vague statements like this shows nothing.

    You have already stated you are scared, i suspect you have a more inherent feelings that you are unwilling to share.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Thank you. We are getting somewhere.

    We both agree that Police brutality should be protested. Now the main issue is whether black people should protest against police brutality.

    When the atrocities happened in Brussels and Paris, why did people say "Je suis Paris or Bruxelles?" why didn't people just say "Je suis the World" After all, there have been attacks in India, Lebanon, the US, Nigeria, Kenya, Mali, Tunisia, Germany and so on. It was not about that it was the focus of the French and the Belgians. In the darkest moment, they came together and sang with pride that ""they were Paris and Brussels." The world sang in unison and stood strong with them.

    You can use this analogy for black lives matter. Black people, within their communities, sang or shouted with pride that their lives matter. It was not against white people or Asian people. It was against a systematic treatment of black people by the Police. Yes, black on black crime is high and, yes, other racial communities have faced similar problems. However, it does not mean that black people should not come together and campaign against a problem that they are facing.
    Paris and Brussels were a direct attack on them.

    That isn't happening against blacks.
    I use violent crime as my example because I have never heard of any one getting shot for suspected littering
    With violent crime blacks commit it at 4x the rate as other races
    Yet they are killed at a rate of 2.46 times more
    That doesn't suggest a direct attack
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    The leaders have stated how they took inspiration from people on Americas most wanted list for murdering a police officer in cold blood.

    The leader of Blm in Toronto was tweeting about killing "men and white work" recently"

    They have demanded segregation

    As I have said i have nothing against protesting police brutality but this group isn't that and it is creating problems not solving anything.

    Mlk didn't say he has a dream where the races are forced apart he talked about bringing them together this movement doesn't do that
    Not all the leaders stated that they took inspiration from people on America's most wanted list.

    The leader of #BLM in Toronto is one person. We should stop go back and forth and try to progress this conversation. I have already said that there are good eggs and bad eggs in every movement.

    You should support the good parts of the campaign. Like I have said to you before, nobody is demanded segregation. Some people have said that does not mean that the whole group or every black person wants the same. If so, then all Britons should be judged like Nick Griffin (from the racist BNP) or all Germans should be judged like Hitler.
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    It's not racist, making vague statements like this shows nothing.

    You have already stated you are scared, i suspect you have a more inherent feelings that you are unwilling to share.
    Demanding segregation isn't racist?

    Where did I say I was scared? I can not remember saying that so I'm wondering in how I said it.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    Demanding segregation isn't racist?
    Care to provide a link for this?
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    (Original post by Youngmetro)
    Care to provide a link for this?
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rys-racist-ba/

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