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    (Original post by Hachkay)
    Because Islamic countries have the most oil, the USA therefore wants to control anything and everything....they do so by war. How do they get away with it? Brainwash the general public to think that Islam is a disastrous religion full of terrorism. Ha.
    Why then, does the US only get around 10% of its oil from the Middle East? (The UK gets about 6%.)
    Surely if all those years of death and destruction was about oil, why is the US now getting less of its oil from Iraq than it was before the war? And why does most of it go to China, India and the Far East?

    Hmmm?...
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    (Original post by SalmaSalma)
    However you use the word, the most widely used interpretation of it is negative whether you like it or not.
    I asked you for evidence of this before, and you didn't provide any. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant; the truth is the truth regardless of my feelings towards it, and I'm not trying to refute it by saying, 'I don't like it!', so this is somewhat irrelevant. However, you don't prove the truth simply by assertion, as you're attempting to do.

    If you had read my previous posts you would see that I said most, emphasis on most, people use the word knowing the Arabic meaning.
    How on earth can this possibly be true? Most people do not speak Arabic, let alone worry about semantical differences/etymology of Arabic words. Your whole case is hinged on this one assumption, and I don't think it's possible to prove it. If you think otherwise, do go ahead and show me some evidence for this claim.

    The majority of people who use this word are doing so purposefully, then argue they use it as it is the historical term for Muslims when we know that is far from the truth.
    Again, you saying this doesn't make it true. You would need to prove it.

    To be honest, I prefer those who come out and say they use these words after the actual meaning they intended to use it for.
    So it's not really possible to win with you, is it? You operate on the assumption that most people who use the old spelling (to which no Muslims objected at the time, that I know of) are doing so with intent to demean Muslims, and that if they deny this charge, they are lying, and your evidence for this is: 'because that's just how it is, whether you like it or not.' Can you really not see how absurd you're being?

    Its really easy to realize why they use it as they usually, no always finish it off with an Islamophobic statement.
    This can be disproven simply by counterexample, and even if it couldn't, whether they say something else that you perceive to be 'Islamophobic' is not evidence for what they mean by 'Moslem.' Again, I would remind you that 'Muslim' is a recent change in vernacular - people got on with saying 'Moslem' and before that 'Mohammadan' without any supposed 'Islamophobia' (also a recent invention) for much of history without any malevolent intent.

    Now, you may write is as 'Muslim' and argue that 'Moslem' is simply historic. I'm not arguing with that. I m arguing as to why you think you have to defend people who use 'Moslem' in a negative way.
    We all know what they mean.
    I'm defending Good bloke, who is not using it 'in a negative way.' This is how he has always spelled it, and he has already told you that he uses other spellings/words like 'mediaeval' and 'gaol' that are not as popular as they once were. I presume those peculiarities are also intended to demean someone?

    Oh, and the rational members of TSR being the EDL, BNP, Britain First members I presume.
    You presumed wrongly. I was referring to those members who are able to argue rationally. The word 'rational' kind of implies that more than it does membership of the EDL, BNP, and Britain First, wouldn't you agree?
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    (Original post by SalmaSalma)
    I received two DIFFERENT definitions both claiming to be the English word, read what was written first before you jump to conclusions.
    You see that's where your wrong.
    No. You received one link to the definition in an English dictionary (from me) and one link to Google, from which you took the first thing on the page which was the definition of an Arabic word. You really must read more carefully.
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    Same with Ukraine, they lost Crimea.
    I hate to be an apologist for FP, and you do have a good point about people not caring about rights....

    but sometimes, you really have to look at feasibility. It is sad that Russia annexed Crimea in the way they did - but would you intervene...? and potentially start WW3 over it?

    Many hawks within the US govt (the govt that is claimed to only cares about oil) have suggested going to war over Crimea, and they were adamant in NOT even talking to Iran, there could've been no Iran deal if less diplomatically minded and more "oil-hawk" [if you will] leaders were in charge.

    So the oil narrative isn't entirely accurate.

    Also, I wonder if you realise how much petrodollar is actually used to fund the spread and propagation of Islam (and Islamism) worldwide - maybe not the "right Islam", but a form of Islam at least
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    (Original post by Jeff458)
    Starting to remember why I was soo happy not to message you for ages, because I don't have to read a long ass essay on why your life sucks.

    Just to be clear, in simple words and very clearly state your opinion on Islam. Once and for all. Don't bs around just cut to the chase. Might be hard for you but try it.

    The Quran is both you stupid and absolute, just doesn't even matter tbh anymore. Some knowledge you have. If you're not even clear on that then you might as well go back to bully bashing.

    There are many threads on Islam you do not comment on? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAH. I'm in stitches now. Keep telling yourself that
    You forgot to make any kind of rational point there.
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    Are these so called Islamic state group going to ever perform hajj/Islamic pilgrimage? are they even interested?
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    I can only somehow give examples from my family/community and whatever I have witnessed.

    People naturally are attracted to bad things, especially if you have lots of things prohibited to you. I guess it's curiosity inside us, we are human beings, it's easy to trick us, same as how people can be brainwashed to join IS.

    So, what Islam does is, tries to put you away so you will not sin. I see the logic, it's exactly like, how parent would tell the child not to play with kids who does drugs. It's exactly like how some cultural parents wont let their kids to have friends with bad grades....

    (another badly translated proverb from my country) - When you put horse next to another horse, they wont be the same colour, the will have similar attitude. - it's play with word where they say the things about humans giving animals as example.

    Yes- Christian logic is good, but Islamic logic is not wrong either.
    According to both religions: 2 people together, one day they will have similar views...
    Christianity believes you are the powerful one out of two, however Islam tries to protect at least one of them, because what if Muslim one is the weak one. (I don't know if I'm making any sense)

    but I do fully understand what you mean
    A thoughtful reply. Thank you.
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    (Original post by h333)
    Are these so called Islamic state group going to ever perform hajj/Islamic pilgrimage? are they even interested?
    I suspect Saudi Arabia isn't going to be too keen to issue visas to known IS members, given the two are currently at war.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    I suspect Saudi Arabia isn't going to be too keen to issue visas to known IS members, given the two are currently at war.
    hmmm then maybe they should be careful of what they are doing if those in the group are killing innocent people and causing terror etc....if they want to ever perform this important pillar of Islam which if you are a Muslim should look forward to. And seems like these so called Islamic state are not interested.
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    (Original post by h333)
    hmmm then maybe they should be careful of what they are doing if those in the group are killing innocent people and causing terror etc....if they want to ever perform this important pillar of Islam which if you are a Muslim should look forward to. And seems like these so called Islamic state are not interested.
    Well, they do have grand delusions of power and purpose, so I suppose they view Mecca as infidel-occupied territory to which they can make pilgrimage only after its 'liberation' and annexation into the caliphate.
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    (Original post by h333)
    Are these so called Islamic state group going to ever perform hajj/Islamic pilgrimage? are they even interested?
    I would imagine that some already have, before joining ISIS. The remainder have the rest of their lives, as long as they can fulfil istitah. And stay alive (but then the reward for dying while fighting in the way of Allah is to go straight to paradise anyway, so no need for a holiday in Arabia!

    Also remember that the vast majority of Muslims never undertake hajj. Only about 32 million non Saudi Muslims have made hajj to Mecca in the last 20 years. Out of 1.6 billion, that's only 2%! And some of those will be repeat visits. And the total population of Muslims over the last 20 years will be more than 1.6 bil, so it's probably more like 1%!
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    I see your points, I agree with all of them. It's all correct and true.

    But lets face it, tea vs alcohol for socialising, making friends... Also, majority of Muslims don't even go to places where alcohol served, even if they don't drink.

    Tea is amazing drink but alcohol is a game changer

    and I think motives of not drinking alcohol is important as well:
    -Religion
    -Medical condition
    -Driving
    -New years resolution
    -Promise to partner etc

    When you bring in religion, things get complicated: in my language there is a phrase, I will translate it, (sorry for bad translation from beginning): it says "Whoever is going to hell, will try to find friends to go with him",,,,

    In this thread:
    1. Finance/Money
    2. We had prohibitions in our religion, but we stopped it, we changed our scripts, do it.
    3. Not enough education in Muslim societies.

    My country majority muslim, not practising, we drink, wear whatever we want, more or less European.

    We could be great country, maybe popular one too.... but media always shows bad things, I know how it's wrong, I know how BBC hate us, I know reality but media always messes peoples mind up.

    becauase of this global game of power.
    Are you insinuating that islamaphobia stems from arbitrary Muslims's decisions to not drink alcohol at the pub?
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Well, they do have grand delusions of power and purpose, so I suppose they view Mecca as infidel-occupied territory to which they can make pilgrimage only after its 'liberation' and annexation into the caliphate.
    Indeed. After all, Muhammad did say that there would come a time when..
    "They would recite the Qur'an, but it would not go beyond their throats,"
    "many mosques would be splendidly furnished but destitute of guidance".
    Does sound a bit like the Saudis and Mecca, doesn't it?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Indeed. After all, Muhammad did say that there would come a time when..
    "They would recite the Qur'an, but it would not go beyond their throats,"
    "many mosques would be splendidly furnished but destitute of guidance".
    Does sound a bit like the Saudis and Mecca, doesn't it?
    It does indeed.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    It would under the right conditions.
    Most Muslims claim that there is no truly islamic state (although it could be argued that there is one now) yet even in these IslamLite countries, there is at best an expectation and at worst, a requirement, to observe Islamic ideology.

    There are many scriptural references to using threats of violence to "persuade" people to submit to Islam.

    No one is forcing me to accept FGM, or child labour, or capital punishment, or corporate asset stripping, or deforestation, etc... but does that mean that I should not be concerned of make my objections heard.

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, why are religionists so puzzled by people opposing or supporting things that don't affect them? Why can they not see beyong what helps them avoid punishment or gain reward?
    It is demonstrated over and again - religionists have an essentially selfish worldview.
    No. Freedom of religion is established in a legitimate islamic state. The existing churches and synagogues will be upheld and protected. Any jew or christian that is harmed by a muslim; the muslim incurs a great sin.

    Don't change the subject; accept that you were wrong on this matter.

    Noone's forcing you to be muslim. At all. Ever.
    Feel free to make your voice heard that you disagree at any point. But it feels so wierd that you're not even muslim yet you have contributed SO MANY hours of your life to bashing Islam. Why are you so obsessed?
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    .
    Ah, you are back. Perhaps you'll now explain those verses for me? Or explain what was hateful about my first post?
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    (Original post by Good bloke;[url="tel:64704257")
    64704257[/url]]Ah, you are back. Perhaps you'll now explain those verses for me? Or explain what was hateful about my first post?
    Yeah I didn't speak to QE2 for a while and I missed him/her. I was speaking to you all day though and I got bored. If you're THAT interested in what I think of the verses, then PM me. Simple. I'm getting too many notifs anyways so can't reply to all of them.

    Fyi; I really don't see what kinda point you're trying to raise with the verses?
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    'Moslem' is simply a variation of the word 'Muslim', for example the Koran or the Qu'ran
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    (Original post by Butternuts96)
    Yeah I didn't speak to QE2 for a while and I missed him/her. I was speaking to you all day though and I got bored. If you're THAT interested in what I think of the verses, then PM me. Simple. I'm getting too many notifs anyways so can't reply to all of them.

    Fyi; I really don't see what kinda point you're trying to raise with the verses?
    I have PM'd, and await your answer.
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    (Original post by lNurl)
    Hydeman, jealous? *joking*

    Yes of course you can marry, I can have 4 brain wives yes?? but you will be my first one!!
    I feel honoured - can I play with your other brain wives too?
 
 
 
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