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Should the Death Penalty be reintroduced for convicted paedophiles? Watch

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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    So you admit that the trials are happening regardless.

    An appeal over a death sentence does not need to be more expensive than that of a regular appeal.

    The death sentence can save a huge amount of money, for that reason, it is worth doing alone, never mind the other reasons.
    I said murder trials are already expensive but when you increase the stakes the cost of trials goes up massively, the US is a perfect example. There is literally no evidence that capital punishment would save money, the only comparable sources that exist suggest it would cost more money.

    What other reasons are there?


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The fact that there are people out there who support the death penalty at all is quite disturbing but the fact that there are people who advocate it's use for crimes other than murder just shows how barbaric and primitive some people are.

    Also there is absolutely no reason to suggest that it would be cheaper to execute people, if anything it would be capital punishment that would be 'wasting resources'
    So explain to me your alternative for someone who clearly shows they cannot be rehabilitated and revels in the pain/suffering of their victims. The only reason capital punishment costs so much in the US is because you're on "death row" for decades using state resources to make endless appeals and stays of execution.

    I assume by wasting resources you mean the resource that is the "human being" who has been convicted of multiple heinous crimes? I mean if you mean their labour I suppose hard labour camps might be an alternative, though I assume that's far too barbaric and primitive.

    Ah we have quite a relevant situation...

    https://www.rt.com/news/345467-isis-...kurdish-women/

    So these gentlemen, if they face a court, should be given what sentence? Now I'll say some of the men might have just joined the crowd but you'll have the hardliners who took gratification out of the act...good luck with making them see the error of their ways. But I'm sure they'll become functional members of society in due course, in fact iron constructions and fire...they could become welders!
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I said murder trials are already expensive but when you increase the stakes the cost of trials goes up massively, the US is a perfect example. There is literally no evidence that capital punishment would save money, the only comparable sources that exist suggest it would cost more money.

    What other reasons are there?


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    Why are you using the US as your base example? They probably have the most costly death penalty system in the world, people even have to wait decades before they are finally killed. I already gave figures in this thread about how the death penalty would save money.

    As I said, a death penalty appeal does not need to cost more than a regular prison sentence appeal.
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    (Original post by joey11223)
    So explain to me your alternative for someone who clearly shows they cannot be rehabilitated and revels in the pain/suffering of their victims. The only reason capital punishment costs so much in the US is because you're on "death row" for decades using state resources to make endless appeals and stays of execution.
    The alternative is putting someone in prison until you can be satisfied they no longer pose a danger to the public. So someone shouldn't be entitled to appeals where their life is on the line? The appeal system is the US is particularly important seeing as you can be convicted of murder on nothing but the testimony of an eight year old child. Even if you removed the appeal process death penalty trials would still be more costly. More time goes into preparing them which means legal fees go up, court fees go, more expert witnesses will be called etc.

    The simple fact is we have a respect for human rights in this country meaning that even if the death penalty was brought back (which would perhaps mean we no longer care about human rights) there would need to be safeguards, these safeguards will take the form of a lengthy appeals process. The American system is expensive but they don't have the appeals system simply for the fun of it, if Texas could satisfy its bloodlust for less money it would do so.

    (Original post by joey11223)
    I assume by wasting resources you mean the resource that is the "human being" who has been convicted of multiple heinous crimes? I mean if you mean their labour I suppose hard labour camps might be an alternative, though I assume that's far too barbaric and primitive.
    No I mean wasted resources as in wasted money seeking the death penalty.

    (Original post by joey11223)
    Ah we have quite a relevant situation...https://www.rt.com/news/345467-isis-...rdish-women/So these gentlemen, if they face a court, should be given what sentence? Now I'll say some of the men might have just joined the crowd but you'll have the hardliners who took gratification out of the act...good luck with making them see the error of their ways. But I'm sure they'll become functional members of society in due course, in fact iron constructions and fire...they could become welders!
    If they never change then you imprison for the rest of their lives. What do you achieve by executing them?

    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Why are you using the US as your base example? They probably have the most costly death penalty system in the world, people even have to wait decades before they are finally killed. I already gave figures in this thread about how the death penalty would save money.

    As I said, a death penalty appeal does not need to cost more than a regular prison sentence appeal.
    You give figures? Your figure was that rope costs £5...

    It does have to cost more because the trial and all subsequent appeals will go on for longer.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The alternative is putting someone in prison until you can be satisfied they no longer pose a danger to the public. So someone shouldn't be entitled to appeals where their life is on the line? The appeal system is the US is particularly important seeing as you can be convicted of murder on nothing but the testimony of an eight year old child. Even if you removed the appeal process death penalty trials would still be more costly. More time goes into preparing them which means legal fees go up, court fees go, more expert witnesses will be called etc.

    The simple fact is we have a respect for human rights in this country meaning that even if the death penalty was brought back (which would perhaps mean we no longer care about human rights) there would need to be safeguards, these safeguards will take the form of a lengthy appeals process. The American system is expensive but they don't have the appeals system simply for the fun of it, if Texas could satisfy its bloodlust for less money it would do so.



    No I mean wasted resources as in wasted money seeking the death penalty.



    If they never change then you imprison for the rest of their lives. What do you achieve by executing them?



    You give figures? Your figure was that rope costs £5...

    It does have to cost more because the trial and all subsequent appeals will go on for longer.
    No, my £40,000 a year figure.

    That is my point, the appeal costs are the same, so your point is not valid. I would have a system where all money saved from the death penalty would be invested into healthcare, therefor savings lives.

    Take a life to save a life.

    Perhaps I care more about saving the lives of innocent people than you, I don't know.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    No, my £40,000 a year figure.

    That is my point, the appeal costs are the same, so your point is not valid. I would have a system where all money saved from the death penalty would be invested into healthcare, therefor savings lives.

    Take a life to save a life.

    Perhaps I care more about saving the lives of innocent people than you, I don't know.
    There would be more appeals and each would be costlier than trials that weren't for capital murder. When put into a realistic scenario there is no evidence to suggest that capital punishment would save money. The US is the most comparable country to the UK in terms of legal systems and it costs them billions more to kill people. Does that not sound ridiculous to you? A developed country pays BILLIONS of dollars in order to kill its own people.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    There would be more appeals and each would be costlier than trials that weren't for capital murder. When put into a realistic scenario there is no evidence to suggest that capital punishment would save money. The US is the most comparable country to the UK in terms of legal systems and it costs them billions more to kill people. Does that not sound ridiculous to you? A developed country pays BILLIONS of dollars in order to kill its own people.


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    As I have said, there is no need to have more appeals than a regular sentence, so your point is void, therefore money would be saved and there would be no chance of wrongful deaths under certain circumstances..
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I don't support the death penalty for any crime, there are literally no positives to it


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    Less prison cells... I think that's a positive. Cheaper depending on method of capital punishment, and there are plenty ways of executing someone without spending big money. Well, no one said the death penalty is a happy day or positive. Imprisonment and death penalty has their ups and their downs.
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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    The US is the most comparable country to the UK in terms of legal systems and it costs them billions more to kill people. Does that not sound ridiculous to you? A developed country pays BILLIONS of dollars in order to kill its own people.


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    No offense but what are you taking about the USA or any developed country paying billions to kills its own people? Do you classified rapists, cannibals, and/or murders as part of the UK community? If not, neither does the the USA of their community. If you think of criminals who kill the members of the human species part of your people please do. Do you think the USA just uses death penalty for the fun of it? If you want to consider the serial killer who might be next to you as "your people" you're free to. In the USA depending on the state, that serial killer might be sentenced to lethal injection instead of prison time. BTW, the USA spends more money on military than anything else. I would love to know the UK spends billions on. It may not be capital punishment or the death penalty but I'm sure its not going to on "world peace and harmony".
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    (Original post by SmileyVibe)
    No offense but what are you taking about the USA or any developed country paying billions to kills its own people? Do you classified rapists, cannibals, and/or murders as part of the UK community? If not, neither does the the USA of their community. If you think of criminals who kill the members of the human species part of your people please do. Do you think the USA just uses death penalty for the fun of it? If you want to consider the serial killer who might be next to you as "your people" you're free to. In the USA depending on the state, that serial killer might be sentenced to lethal injection instead of prison time. BTW, the USA spends more money on military than anything else. I would love to know the UK spends billions on. It may not be capital punishment or the death penalty but I'm sure its not going to on "world peace and harmony".
    I classify them as humans and thus part of that governments 'people'. I think the USA uses it because it's become so entrenched in their judicial system that way too many people would not be happy to see it gone. It's the same as the right to own a gun, it serves no practical purpose and just causes more harm but it's so normal that people wouldn't want to lose that right.

    I don't really get what point you're trying to make. The US may spend more on their military than anything else but the fact remains they cost themselves billions of dollars by killing their own citizens.

    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    As I have said, there is no need to have more appeals than a regular sentence, so your point is void, therefore money would be saved and there would be no chance of wrongful deaths under certain circumstances..
    As I've explained multiple times, 1) there is a need for more appeals, the sentence is more severe and definitive and 2) even if there was only one trial that would still cost us more.

    There will always be wrongful deaths, I'd love to know your circumstances that would prevent them?

    (Original post by SmileyVibe)
    Less prison cells... I think that's a positive. Cheaper depending on method of capital punishment, and there are plenty ways of executing someone without spending big money. Well, no one said the death penalty is a happy day or positive. Imprisonment and death penalty has their ups and their downs.
    Well there wouldn't be less cells because the cells have already been built. Well like I said there is no evidence that capital punishment would save the UK a penny, all of the evidence points toward it costing us money. Yes a bullet may only cost 50p but you're ignorant to reality if you think it's realistic to just shoot someone behind the courthouse after their convicted.


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    (Original post by Underscore__)
    I classify them as humans and thus part of that governments 'people'. I think the USA uses it because it's become so entrenched in their judicial system that way too many people would not be happy to see it gone. It's the same as the right to own a gun, it serves no practical purpose and just causes more harm but it's so normal that people wouldn't want to lose that right.

    I don't really get what point you're trying to make. The US may spend more on their military than anything else but the fact remains they cost themselves billions of dollars by killing their own citizens.



    As I've explained multiple times, 1) there is a need for more appeals, the sentence is more severe and definitive and 2) even if there was only one trial that would still cost us more.

    There will always be wrongful deaths, I'd love to know your circumstances that would prevent them?



    Well there wouldn't be less cells because the cells have already been built. Well like I said there is no evidence that capital punishment would save the UK a penny, all of the evidence points toward it costing us money. Yes a bullet may only cost 50p but you're ignorant to reality if you think it's realistic to just shoot someone behind the courthouse after their convicted.


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    They already have appeals. Please tell me how exactly the cost of an appeal over a death sentence costs more than that of a life sentence, provide some actual figures showing the differences.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    They already have appeals. Please tell me how exactly the cost of an appeal over a death sentence costs more than that of a life sentence, provide some actual figures showing the differences.
    Just read up on the death penalty. It is widely known that the death penalty is more expensive than life imprisonment. This is due to a combination of factors, one of which being the lengthy legal process for giving the death penalty and the other being the price of the drugs, which companies are constantly changing to prevent being used for the lethal injection.

    Also, there are plenty of cases where new evidence has come to light years later causing someone to be released, if you gave them the death penalty there is no coming back from that.
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    (Original post by JakeClark1999)
    You are a stupid cnut you should go and fcuk yourself what if it was you that was raped ?hmmmm...
    :mad:that is harsh mate:mad:
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Just read up on the death penalty. It is widely known that the death penalty is more expensive than life imprisonment. This is due to a combination of factors, one of which being the lengthy legal process for giving the death penalty and the other being the price of the drugs, which companies are constantly changing to prevent being used for the lethal injection.

    Also, there are plenty of cases where new evidence has come to light years later causing someone to be released, if you gave them the death penalty there is no coming back from that.
    Who mentioned drugs?

    Drugs don't need to be used, look at Saudi Arabia, they just use a sword, or traditionally we used hanging, both methods don't cost anything.

    The whole "what if he is innocent" issue is not really relevant, I'm working on the belief that the person actually did commit the crime.
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    (Original post by JakeClark1999)
    You are a stupid cnut you should go and fcuk yourself what if it was you that was raped ?hmmmm...
    So what if it was me? Name:  1918059_1000202066733201_3589450683749621953_n.jpg
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    Who mentioned drugs?

    Drugs don't need to be used, look at Saudi Arabia, they just use a sword, or traditionally we used hanging, both methods don't cost anything.

    The whole "what if he is innocent" issue is not really relevant, I'm working on the belief that the person actually did commit the crime.
    Drugs are one component, you are correct that we could go for other options. I don't see hanging and beheading catching the popular vote though. It also doesn't remove the non-drug costs. Incidentally, I imagine employing an executioner would cost a modest amount, but likely not enough to be worth mentioning in the grand scheme of thing.

    Your "belief" is ridiculous and irrelevant. "Believing" someone committed a crime and executing them is a horrible idea. If you want to execute someone then you need to be able to prove without a shadow of doubt that they did it, hence why prosecutions are so expensive.

    For life imprisonment you have to decide on balance of probabilities that they likely did it and if new evidence comes to light then they can be released and compensated.

    Your belief works on the principal that the justice system is right 100% of the time, which is very much isn't.
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    Absolutely not ! Nobody is justified in taking another persons life, even if they took somebody else's, also they never really get any punishment or have to pay for their crime. And I think the most common reason is that they could be wrong and end killing an innocent human being. However I do sometimes understand that there are some who are so evil and dangerous that their existence alone is dangerous to a load of people. But still if you make a properly secured institution to hold them and keep them completely isolated, along with training guards on how to deal with these dangerous people, then it should be fine without needing to kill them.

    Edit : Now currently on jury duty though, I do see why some people see it as a better option. To keep trailing somebody you know is guilty, committing crimes and harming others, because one idiot on the jury didn't think so. Wasting taxpayers hard earned money !
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    God said 'Love thy Neighbour as yourself' so no
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    (Original post by Elivercury)
    Drugs are one component, you are correct that we could go for other options. I don't see hanging and beheading catching the popular vote though. It also doesn't remove the non-drug costs. Incidentally, I imagine employing an executioner would cost a modest amount, but likely not enough to be worth mentioning in the grand scheme of thing.

    Your "belief" is ridiculous and irrelevant. "Believing" someone committed a crime and executing them is a horrible idea. If you want to execute someone then you need to be able to prove without a shadow of doubt that they did it, hence why prosecutions are so expensive.

    For life imprisonment you have to decide on balance of probabilities that they likely did it and if new evidence comes to light then they can be released and compensated.

    Your belief works on the principal that the justice system is right 100% of the time, which is very much isn't.
    In my examples, the person is 100% guilty and is never found to be innocent, I am talking about this scenario, in this scenario, I support the death penalty.
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    (Original post by The_Opinion)
    In my examples, the person is 100% guilty and is never found to be innocent, I am talking about this scenario, in this scenario, I support the death penalty.
    Okay, but this discussion was started with a petition to make this a reality in place. Sure, support it in principal under ideal circumstances, but the discussion was really about whether this would work in real life. And I think the answer is no.

    I mean if we're going to create ideal scenarios then we can also assume there are no barriers and expenses associated with convicting the (known) guilty party, so the death penalty is a fine option.

    Incidentally I still feel the death penalty is disproportionate for paedophile charges unless they are serving life.
 
 
 
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