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    (Original post by nutcase13)
    except in this case someone did
    Yeah one person others could have prevented this death may it lie on their souls and burden them till the day they die
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    (Original post by otester)
    He said he loves his country.
    That doesn't make him a nationalist. To give you a point of reference, Adolf Hitler, Donald Trump and Nick Griffin are generally considered to be nationalists. A less extreme example would be Alex Salmond, but Corbyn doesn't align with him either.
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    (Original post by neal95)
    There is no sense of duty in Britain anymore. People don't jump in to help people. It's the same with that Muslim nutter in Leytonstone tube station. People would rather film **** with their phones
    I'm sure you would have leapt valiantly to this MP's defence, grabbed the gun out of the nutter's hand, executed a sweet kick to his chest, knocked him to the floor, and saved the day.

    Oh if only you had been there.
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Sky news interviewed a guy who said he did not hear that shouted..

    One witness said the man attacked a 76 year old man of which Jo tried to intervene and was murdered...

    Do you see the problem here? We have conflicting stories of what happened and what was said

    Of course this is me professing my love for murderous terrorists
    So far on this thread we've had posters claiming this was a conspiracy by the remain camp, others saying that PC culture was to blame and now you claiming he was 'mentally ill'.

    This place makes me despair, anything to avoid recognising the problem with far right extremists.

    A beautiful women and a wonderful mother had her life taken, perhaps show some sympathy rather than seeking to do all you can to defend the far right.
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    (Original post by EuanF)
    Wasn't the only one.
    Aamir Tahir admits he wasn't present.
    I'm correcting what you said. You claimed Hicham was the one who asserted the attacker shouted "Britain first". You claimed, essentially, that this had been withdrawn. You were either lying, or you were unaware of that. Either way, you should edit your post to reflect that.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I'm sure you would have leapt valiantly to this MP's defence, grabbed the gun out of the nutter's hand, executed a sweet kick to his chest, knocked him to the floor, and saved the day.

    Oh if only you had been there.
    keyboard warrior probably would have probably **** himself
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    Sorry but 'Aamir Tahir of The Dry Clean Centre', the messenger of a 'lady he works with', is not a very reliable source. I think I'll wait for more information before I come to the conclusion the shooter is affiliated with Britain First.
    it's an eye-witness account, moron. what other sources would possibly exist?
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    I was thinking the very same, I don't see the same public outcry when your average joe gets shot. You certainly don't get the Arch Bishop tweeting about you.
    Because, simply, she was doing a job as a representative of the people.

    Although I think if an "average Joe" was attacked and killed in the same manner there would also be somewhat of an "outcry".

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    (Original post by jneill)
    Although I think if an "average Joe" was attacked and killed in the same manner there would also be somewhat of an "outcry".

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I believe there was when Lee Rigby was murdered no?
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    I'm a leave voter but frankly it is pissing me off to see how desperately Breitbart-type people are playing down the political/ideological angle while playing up the mental illness one.

    That is pretty much in direct contradiction of everything they said in the immediate aftermath of the Orlando attack
    Agreed. Both sides of the argument are frequently guilty of lying through omission, when it suits them. I'm sure that most public representatives who like to deal in absolutes are aware that it's never as binary as they make it out to be, but they gamble on it because they know that even if they are questioned, they most likely will come out of it with a net gain in support for their agenda.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    it's an eye-witness account, moron. what other sources would possibly exist?
    You completely missed my point.
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    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    I'm a leave voter but frankly it is pissing me off to see how desperately Breitbart-type people are playing down the political/ideological angle while playing up the mental illness one.

    That is pretty much in direct contradiction of everything they said in the immediate aftermath of the Orlando attack
    I don't get why everyone has to be so simplistic about everything.

    (1) The guy probably was mentally ill.

    (2) That doesn't mean that he wasn't motivated by politics.

    (3) Even if he was, he cannot unilaterally make a particular group guilty by association just by shouting its name.

    (4) It is still legitimate to enquire as to whether that group's rhetoric is particularly liable to motivate people to extreme action like this.

    (5) None of this is sufficiently captured by choosing to apply, or not to apply, the term 'terrorism' to this attack.

    (6) None of this is a reason in itself to alter your wider political views. It is, ultimately, an act of a lone gunman.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    Source?
    are you worried that it's possible you share the same political ideologies of a murderer? is this why you're so vehemently denying that this had something to do with right-wing extremism?
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I don't get why everyone has to be so simplistic about everything.

    (1) The guy probably was mentally ill.

    (2) That doesn't mean that he wasn't motivated by politics.

    (3) Even if he was, he cannot unilaterally make a particular group guilty by association just by shouting its name.

    (4) It is still legitimate to enquire as to whether that group's rhetoric is particularly liable to motivate people to extreme action like this.

    (5) None of this is sufficiently captured by choosing to apply, or not to apply, the term 'terrorism' to this attack.

    (6) None of this is a reason in itself to alter your wider political views. It is, ultimately, an act of a lone gunman.
    I agree with all of that. Good post.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    it's an eye-witness account, moron. what other sources would possibly exist?
    It's not an eyewitness account, it's hearsay.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    You completely missed my point.
    The point being that eyewitness accounts are only valid if they agree with your preconceived notions? Because I think we can be damn sure if the same eyewitness had said they'd shouted Allah Akbar you'd not be saying they're not reliable.
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    are you worried that it's possible you share the same political ideologies of a murderer? is this why you're so vehemently denying that this had something to do with right-wing extremism?
    At this point I'd really like to hear any information you have that links him to right-wing extremism. I haven't seen it reported anywhere, other than the "Britain first" thing which is itself highly contested.

    If you have more information...
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I don't get why everyone has to be so simplistic about everything.

    (1) The guy probably was mentally ill.

    (2) That doesn't mean that he wasn't motivated by politics.

    (3) Even if he was, he cannot unilaterally make a particular group guilty by association just by shouting its name.

    (4) It is still legitimate to enquire as to whether that group's rhetoric is particularly liable to motivate people to extreme action like this.

    (5) None of this is sufficiently captured by choosing to apply, or not to apply, the term 'terrorism' to this attack.

    (6) None of this is a reason in itself to alter your wider political views. It is, ultimately, an act of a lone gunman.
    This might be a good template to apply to the majority of shootings we've seen in the past few years....
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    it's an eye-witness account, moron. what other sources would possibly exist?
    The only account of this happening came from a man called Aamir Tahir. He said something along the lines of "Apparently he shouted "Britain First". He specifically qualified it with "apparently".

    I have not heard any further reports or statements from witnesses on that subject
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    (Original post by tanyapotter)
    are you worried that it's possible you share the same political ideologies of a murderer? is this why you're so vehemently denying that this had something to do with right-wing extremism?
    How would I know if I share the same political ideologies of the murderer when we pretty much have no idea what his political ideologies actually are?

    But, no... I'm not worried. Right wing extremism isn't exactly a prevalent issue.
 
 
 
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