D&D Religion's "Ask About Sikhism" Thread Watch

USingh
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#321
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#321
(Original post by meenu89)
can't eat beef, can't eat halal meat
Sorry I think you have been told the wrong information. The majority of Amritdhari Sikhs you will meet believe meat should not be eaten, there are a very small number who say it only applies to ritually slaughtered meat such as Halal and Kosher (as the Guru has condemned this in Gurbani), in any case, no distinction is made between types of meat, eg. eating beef is the same as chicken or any other animal. One thing that is definite regarding the meat debate is removal of hypocracy, judging by the rest of Sikh philosophy if meat is not allowed then all meat is not allowed, if meat is allowed then all meat is allowed and no rituals or differentiation is needed.
However, to me and most amritdhari sikhs and the various old institutions within Sikhism meat is not to be consumed. This is because meat is simply not meant for humans to eat and its just cruel to kill something defenceless, just as it would be to kill any innocent person. Having said that Sikhs do not prescribe to pacifism and say for example if an animal is attacking you its fine to attack it back.
Also, Guru Nanak Dev Ji has criticised those who argue over meat, saying that simply by being a vegetarian does not make you a good person, plus don't go looking down on others for not eating it, etc. Its just about being merciful.
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Suave
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#322
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(Original post by USingh)
Sorry I think you have been told the wrong information. The majority of Amritdhari Sikhs you will meet believe meat should not be eaten, there are a very small number who say it only applies to ritually slaughtered meat such as Halal and Kosher (as the Guru has condemned this in Gurbani), in any case, no distinction is made between types of meat, eg. eating beef is the same as chicken or any other animal. One thing that is definite regarding the meat debate is removal of hypocracy, judging by the rest of Sikh philosophy if meat is not allowed then all meat is not allowed, if meat is allowed then all meat is allowed and no rituals or differentiation is needed.
However, to me and most amritdhari sikhs and the various old institutions within Sikhism meat is not to be consumed. This is because meat is simply not meant for humans to eat and its just cruel to kill something defenceless, just as it would be to kill any innocent person. Having said that Sikhs do not prescribe to pacifism and say for example if an animal is attacking you its fine to attack it back.
Also, Guru Nanak Dev Ji has criticised those who argue over meat, saying that simply by being a vegetarian does not make you a good person, plus don't go looking down on others for not eating it, etc. Its just about being merciful.
This hasn't left a concrete answer. You say "meat is not to be consumed" and yet Guru Nanak ate meat...is there not an official Sikh belief?
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_H_
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(Original post by Suave)
This hasn't left a concrete answer. You say "meat is not to be consumed" and yet Guru Nanak ate meat...is there not an official Sikh belief?
here we gooooo lol
Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not eat meat. you cannot prove that they did (because they didnt) so lets just leave that discussion alone, as it is causing unnecessary offence which im sure is not ur intention :rolleyes:

sikhs are not allowed to eat meat. is that concrete enough for you?
the 'official' belief which is not necessairily correct, says that ritually slaughtered meat or meat which has not been killed using jhatka is not fit for consumption.
our Guru tells us that only fools argue over eating meat, so if you have any sort of respect for our beliefs or even an ounce of decency in your body you will drop this subject.

thankyouverymuch. next question.
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Suave
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#324
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(Original post by _H_)
here we gooooo lol
Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not eat meat. you cannot prove that they did (because they didnt) so lets just leave that discussion alone, as it is causing unnecessary offence which im sure is not ur intention :rolleyes:

sikhs are not allowed to eat meat. is that concrete enough for you?
the 'official' belief which is not necessairily correct, says that ritually slaughtered meat or meat which has not been killed using jhatka is not fit for consumption.
our Guru tells us that only fools argue over eating meat, so if you have any sort of respect for our beliefs or even an ounce of decency in your body you will drop this subject.

thankyouverymuch. next question.
Calm down eh? You say he didn't yet I read:

(Original post by Sandeep Singh Brar)
When the Guru visited Kurukshetra in Haryana, a big fair was being held at the holy tank to celebrate the solar eclipse. There were a large number of pilgrims all over the country. On his arrival at the fair, Guru Nanak had Mardana cook them a meat dish of a deer presented to them by one of his followers
(Original post by Sandeep Singh Brar)
Nanak cooked meat at an important Hindu festival in Kurukshetra. Having cooked it he certainly did not waste it, but probably served it to his followers and ate himself.
Do you have any evidence (i.e. from the Sahib etc) to show that "Sikhs are not allowed to eat meat"?
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_H_
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#325
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(Original post by Suave)
Calm down eh? You say he didn't yet I read:

Do you have any evidence (i.e. from the Sahib etc) to show that "Sikhs are not allowed to eat meat"?
forgive me, it seems i have misjudged you..you dont have any respect for sikh beliefs, and you do intend to cause unnecessary offence. glad we cleared that up.

obviously you are a man of discerning intellect as you believe (pretty much) everything you read on the internet. has it even occurred to you that some websites are misinformed or sometimes full of complete rubbish? did you even stop to think 'is this actually true'

i am going to provide a link to a RELIABLE article in which you will find the 'evidence' you are looking for:
http://manvirsingh.blogspot.com/2008...t-sharaab.html
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Suave
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(Original post by _H_)
forgive me, it seems i have misjudged you..you dont have any respect for sikh beliefs, and you do intend to cause unnecessary offence. glad we cleared that up.
How on Earth did you come to that conclusion?

obviously you are a man of discerning intellect as you believe (pretty much) everything you read on the internet. has it even occurred to you that some websites are misinformed or sometimes full of complete rubbish? did you even stop to think 'is this actually true'

i am going to provide a link to a RELIABLE article in which you will find the 'evidence' you are looking for:
http://manvirsingh.blogspot.com/2008...t-sharaab.html
You've given me a link to a blog as "RELIABLE" evidence? Is this not more of a mockery in judging Sikh beliefs? Hypocritical as I got my information from http://www.sikhs.org/ which is "The Sikhism Homepage". Now stop vicitimising yourself just because I'm debating with you; I haven't insulted you nor have I made unfounded claims. Wise up.
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_H_
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#327
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#327
(Original post by Suave)
You've given me a link to a blog as "RELIABLE" evidence? Is this not more of a mockery in judging Sikh beliefs? Hypocritical as I got my information from http://www.sikhs.org/ which is "The Sikhism Homepage".
the article on this blog contains SOURCES and REFERENCES which are RELIABLE which, in turn, is what you ASKED FOR.
just because an article is published on a blog, that doesn't mean it is less credible.

(Original post by Suave)
I haven't insulted you
you havent insulted me, to your knowledge.
(Original post by Suave)
and yet Guru Nanak ate meat
that is insulting. i believe im quite within my human rights to feel insulted with good reason.

im not going to discuss this whole meat issue any further.
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Suave
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#328
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#328
(Original post by _H_)
the article on this blog contains SOURCES and REFERENCES which are RELIABLE which, in turn, is what you ASKED FOR.
just because an article is published on a blog, that doesn't mean it is less credible.


you havent insulted me, to your knowledge.

that is insulting. i believe im quite within my human rights to feel insulted with good reason.

im not going to discuss this whole meat issue any further.
You are right. If you get insulted just by that then debating really isn't for you.
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CHAMON
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#329
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#329
(Original post by BSJ)
hindus are muslims.
Other way round they say. Apparently The Kaaba was the house of Shiva before the Arabs took it over, and the moon crest is the symbol of that Shiva has upon his head (also on the Islamic flags)

Go figure. :rolleyes:
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SolInvictus
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#330
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#330
Lets just get back to the basic definitions of Sikhism and Hinduism:

"You have pug on man, it make a sikh. You have cup on saucer, it make cup of tea."

"Don't eat beef"

Both: "And that thing you do with your hands.... very, very bad"
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Suave
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#331
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#331
(Original post by SolInvictus)
Lets just get back to the basic definitions of Sikhism and Hinduism:

"You have pug on man, it make a sikh. You have cup on saucer, it make cup of tea."

"Don't eat beef"

Both: "And that thing you do with your hands.... very, very bad"
LOL, you just can't beat Kulvinder Ghir.
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USingh
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#332
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(Original post by Suave)
Calm down eh? You say he didn't yet I read:





Do you have any evidence (i.e. from the Sahib etc) to show that "Sikhs are not allowed to eat meat"?
Just because a site claims to be the Sikhism homepage doesn't mean it is. Anyway I did say that there are some who say yes meat is ok, others who don't. But the large majority of sikh orgs and respected saints and scholars don't.
Firstly, it should be made clear that Gurbani is not to be used as a rule book, but as what teaches you to reach God.
The blog link provided covers most arguments, I don't know why you consider a website made by one man to be more credible over a blog on Sikhism made by a one man,
Infact when you search sikhs.org on google it says "Sandeep Singh Brar's view on the philosophy, development and way of life of Sikhism." If you believe things from one source the first time you read them its not very good research now is it?
Anyway, if you had had a look at the blog you would see that he has backed up by using Gurbani. Though, the Guru Nanak Dev Ji eating meat incident is not in Gurbani.
You raised the question, is there an official view? Well, off course whatever Guru Ji said is the official view, its just between sikhs about what that is. Though it is a VERY small minority who believe in meat eating, usually those who are not even Amritdhari.
Anwyay this article covers the view that Guru Sahib said not to eat meat
http://sikhism101.com/node/77
it is fully backed up with Gurbani, it also counters some arguments made by the minority pro-meat sikhs, which you may not understand because I'm not sure if you know the points made by the pro-meaters in the first place. Basically the whole problem came up with the word used in relation to meat, Kuttha, most believe that it means all meat (as covered in the article), while those few who do believe meat is ok think that the term only refers to ritually slaughtered meat.

But it also should be noted that in Sikhism not eating meat certainly does not make you a good person automatically and doesn't mean you are spiritual just for not eating it, its a very very minor part of life, as in general sikhs are told to live a simple lifestyle. Its just having mercy for something that can't defend itself.
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Suave
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#333
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#333
(Original post by USingh)
Just because a site claims to be the Sikhism homepage doesn't mean it is. Anyway I did say that there are some who say yes meat is ok, others who don't. But the large majority of sikh orgs and respected saints and scholars don't.
Firstly, it should be made clear that Gurbani is not to be used as a rule book, but as what teaches you to reach God.
The blog link provided covers most arguments, I don't know why you consider a website made by one man to be more credible over a blog on Sikhism made by a one man,
Infact when you search sikhs.org on google it says "Sandeep Singh Brar's view on the philosophy, development and way of life of Sikhism." If you believe things from one source the first time you read them its not very good research now is it?
Anyway, if you had had a look at the blog you would see that he has backed up by using Gurbani. Though, the Guru Nanak Dev Ji eating meat incident is not in Gurbani.
You raised the question, is there an official view? Well, off course whatever Guru Ji said is the official view, its just between sikhs about what that is. Though it is a VERY small minority who believe in meat eating, usually those who are not even Amritdhari.
Anwyay this article covers the view that Guru Sahib said not to eat meat
http://sikhism101.com/node/77
it is fully backed up with Gurbani, it also counters some arguments made by the minority pro-meat sikhs, which you may not understand because I'm not sure if you know the points made by the pro-meaters in the first place. Basically the whole problem came up with the word used in relation to meat, Kuttha, most believe that it means all meat (as covered in the article), while those few who do believe meat is ok think that the term only refers to ritually slaughtered meat.

But it also should be noted that in Sikhism not eating meat certainly does not make you a good person automatically and doesn't mean you are spiritual just for not eating it, its a very very minor part of life, as in general sikhs are told to live a simple lifestyle. Its just having mercy for something that can't defend itself.
Right so I read the blog link. So according to that it says you shouldn't eat meat. Also, are you saying that Sandeep Singh Brar is lying about the incident at Kurukshetra?
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USingh
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#334
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(Original post by Suave)
Right so I read the blog link. So according to that it says you shouldn't eat meat. Also, are you saying that Sandeep Singh Brar is lying about the incident at Kurukshetra?
I did not say anywhere that I think he is lying lol. The article itself shows his reference. Now, for Sikhs the only infallible truth is Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the book of the Tenth Guru and one or two other scriptures. Historical accounts are not the word of God nor are they divinely inspired, therefore it is possible for them to be tampered with or even false, so for Sikhs all such accounts must be tested against Gurbani.
Having that in mind, it is important to note all details. Notice how the source does not say Guru Nanak actually ate it, some raw meat was offered to him and the account says that Guru Ji asked Bhai Mardana to cook it, it is pure speculation on the website author's part to assume that Guru Nanak ate it.

"...On his arrival at the fair, Guru Nanak had Mardana cook them a meat dish of a deer presented to them by one of his followers. Upon finding that meat was being cooked on the holy premises, a large angry crowd gathered in anger to attack the Guru for what they thought amounted to sacrilege."

As you can see, as soon as it started to be cooked people gathered round out of anger to stop its cooking. It is paramount to note how Guru Nanak Dev Ji responded to this, the website did provide part of that shabad with which Guru Nanak Dev Ji responded, but the translation was off.

Read it here:
http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4678

Common misconceptions regarding the shabad that they allow the eating of meat, however they are simply against the hyprocracy and ego and the attitudes displayed by those who used religion a money making business. The way in which fake religious people would show off being religious and show off that they abstain from such and such actions, but inside they are still filled with anger and pride. Definetly a lesson that helps all of us in even our day to day lives.
The main message is that one is only a truly religious person if they instruct their own mind first and foremost.
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CHAMON
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#335
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#335
In the Bani it states

''Maas Maas Kar Murakh Chagere'' Only the fools quarrel over what is flesh.

So, this leaves it open (which some abuse) that weshould not fight over eating meat, (as Suave is doing so) eat itif you want, but it's not recommended as many Verses state those that do eat it ''Kabir Phang Machlee Sura Paan Jo Prani Kiae'' Kabeer, those that eat fish, smoke intoxicants, won't reach God) - Not eating beef was out of respect for hindu beliefs and muslims don't eat pork, sikhs would not eat that either (before the partion, all lived and repected each religion)
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USingh
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#336
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(Original post by CHAMON)
In the Bani it states

''Maas Maas Kar Murakh Chagere'' Only the fools quarrel over what is flesh.

So, this leaves it open (which some abuse) that weshould not fight over eating meat, (as Suave is doing so) eat itif you want, but it's not recommended as many Verses state those that do eat it ''Kabir Phang Machlee Sura Paan Jo Prani Kiae'' Kabeer, those that eat fish, smoke intoxicants, won't reach God) - Not eating beef was out of respect for hindu beliefs and muslims don't eat pork, sikhs would not eat that either (before the partion, all lived and repected each religion)
http://sikhism101.com/node/219 have a read through this
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Lebanese Blonde
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#337
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#337
hi
I used to go with a sikh guy i just want to know is it cultural or religious to not marry a person who is not from that religion.

Thankyou
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_H_
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#338
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#338
(Original post by Lebanese Blonde)
hi
I used to go with a sikh guy i just want to know is it cultural or religious to not marry a person who is not from that religion.

Thankyou
hello its a religious requirement. a sikh should marry a sikh, so that they can help each other progress spiritually and also raise their children as sikhs. culturally, it is frowned upon.
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Lebanese Blonde
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#339
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#339
(Original post by _H_)
hello its a religious requirement. a sikh should marry a sikh, so that they can help each other progress spiritually and also raise their children as sikhs. culturally, it is frowned upon.

Thankyou.

So I would have had to have become a sikh tomarry a sikh? Thern whats the position of caste system would I become a caste member say a jutt sikh, thats what he was.
Arent they supposd to be high up in the order of things.

if sikhism breaks away from ancient indian traditions why is caste involved?

So my kids would be become jutts? :p:
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-WhySoSerious?
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#340
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#340
(Original post by SolInvictus)
I think there is some funny video clip of a chav harassing a little old sikh lady, who scares the **** out of him when she takes out her Kirpan, brandishing it while cursing at him in Punjabi.

Anyone know about it?
Heheheh, I remember seeing that in a film aaaaaaaaaaages ago. , brilliant scene.

(Original post by _H_)
hello its a religious requirement. a sikh should marry a sikh, so that they can help each other progress spiritually and also raise their children as sikhs. culturally, it is frowned upon.
Yes, it is frowned upon, but I didn't think that it is a religious requirement? I know many sikhs that have wives that not sikh. Granted, I doubt any of them have taken Amrit, many of them still go to the Gurdwara with their wives and children, with all making an effort to learn and speak punjabi, etc.

(Original post by Lebanese Blonde)
Thankyou.

So I would have had to have become a sikh tomarry a sikh? Thern whats the position of caste system would I become a caste member say a jutt sikh, thats what he was.
Arent they supposd to be high up in the order of things.

if sikhism breaks away from ancient indian traditions why is caste involved?

So my kids would be become jutts? :p:
If you're not living in India/pak, it really shouldn't matter what caste he is, or you are. That is a cultural flaw that shouldn't be around at all now, although it has been ingrained in to society for many hundreds of years.
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