Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
This discussion is closed.
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3381
Report 6 years ago
#3381
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Is Scotland subsidised by England? YES or NO?

What is YOUR opinion, not The Daily Mail's or The Scotsman's.
Who was talking about subsidy?
0
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3382
Report 6 years ago
#3382
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Who owns the nuclear weapons that are currently sited in Scotland:

- the UK?

- the USA?

- NATO?

- anyone else?
The UK. Why do you ask?
0
Maths Tutor
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#3383
Report 6 years ago
#3383
(Original post by Midlander)
The central UK government subsidises all 4 constituent states because they all run at a loss. Scotland loses billions even with the SNP oil claim and so needs subsidising by Westminster.

The same deficit will still be there in Salmondland however the Scottish government are the ones who will have to seek credit to cover it. Choo Choo thinks that whiskey can solve the nation's problems so it's fine.
Who has the BIGGER deficit - Scotland or rUK?

Independent Scotland will not squander money on nuclear weapons and illegal wars among other things, lowering or even eliminating its deficit.

Which independent country in the EU is currently not running on a deficit?

What about the USA?

Why would Scotland not be able to finance a budget deficit? Because it won't have the UK's Triple A rating? Well, that Triple A rating the UK was boasting about DISAPPEARED under Westminster (mis)rule if you didn't know.
0
Maths Tutor
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#3384
Report 6 years ago
#3384
(Original post by Good bloke)
Who was talking about subsidy?
Why are those against Scottish Independence terrified of giving a straight answer to a straight question?

So let me repeat a simple question:

Is Scotland subsidised by England? YES or NO?

What is YOUR opinion, not The Daily Mail's or The Scotsman's.
0
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3385
Report 6 years ago
#3385
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Well, that Triple A rating the UK was boasting about DISAPPEARED under Westminster (mis)rule if you didn't know.
That rather depends on which of the rating agencies you use. The UK is rated AAA by three of the big six agencies. You'll be cherry-picking one of the other three, of course.
0
Maths Tutor
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#3386
Report 6 years ago
#3386
(Original post by Good bloke)
The UK. Why do you ask?
L i b, the arch opponent of Scottish Independence has gone into hiding after posting TOTAL NONSENSE about the status of Scotland between 19th September 2013 and actual independence in 2016 in the event of a YES vote.

According to HIS TOTAL NONSENSE, Scotland will not be a European state until 2016 and so won't be able to enter into any negotiations regarding EU membership between 19th September 2014 and 2016, but somehow the UK can negotiate the membership of a 'foreign' entity which is not even a state.

His other point is that Scotland will be a 'new' state in 2016, which will never have been a member of the EU, UN, NATO and can only knock at their doors in 2016 to become a 'new' member, while not being able to anything between 19th September 2014 and 2016.

So the question is, under "straightforward international law" [L i b],

Will the 'new' state of Scotland have to take up a share of the National Debt of the 'old' state of the UK?

What about the assets?

I ask about nuclear weapons because if it is a UK 'asset' PHYSICALLY SITUATED IN SCOTLAND, under "straightforward international law" [L i b], who will become the owner in 2016?

Scotland or the UK?

Or do they share? On what basis?
0
Maths Tutor
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#3387
Report 6 years ago
#3387
(Original post by Good bloke)
That rather depends on which of the rating agencies you use. The UK is rated AAA by three of the big six agencies. You'll be cherry-picking one of the other three, of course.
And you'll be cherry-picking one of the other three, of course.

The point is, 'Better Together' were BOASTING about the AAA rating, and continued to do so even after it was lost.

Doesn't matter if it is still rated by 3 of the 6 (probably the less credible ones), an AAA rating was LOST under Westminster (mis) rule, NOT by a government in Independent Scotland.

When are you going to answer the 'England subsidises Scotland' question?
0
MatureStudent36
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3388
Report 6 years ago
#3388
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Why are those against Scottish Independence terrified of giving a straight answer to a straight question?

So let me repeat a simple question:

Is Scotland subsidised by England? YES or NO?

What is YOUR opinion, not The Daily Mail's or The Scotsman's.
Nobody is. It's the yeSNP campaign that fail to give straight forward answers. Remember their legal advice on the EU? The one that never existed even though they said it did.
0
MatureStudent36
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3389
Report 6 years ago
#3389
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
And you'll be cherry-picking one of the other three, of course.

The point is, 'Better Together' were BOASTING about the AAA rating, and continued to do so even after it was lost.

Doesn't matter if it is still rated by 3 of the 6 (probably the less credible ones), an AAA rating was LOST under Westminster (mis) rule, NOT by a government in Independent Scotland.

When are you going to answer the 'England subsidises Scotland' question?
At the moment the UK has access to lower interest rates than Norway. The cost of borrowing is a a serious issue for the future that the SNP have failed to acknowledge. Just like the fact that they've failed to, and inane cases gone out of its way to hide the truly damaging impact that their pipe dream will have on our economy.
0
Midlander
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3390
Report 6 years ago
#3390
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Who has the BIGGER deficit - Scotland or rUK?

Independent Scotland will not squander money on nuclear weapons and illegal wars among other things, lowering or even eliminating its deficit.

Which independent country in the EU is currently not running on a deficit?

What about the USA?

Why would Scotland not be able to finance a budget deficit? Because it won't have the UK's Triple A rating? Well, that Triple A rating the UK was boasting about DISAPPEARED under Westminster (mis)rule if you didn't know.
Scotland's population makes up less than 10% of the UK population so the total deficit is obviously smaller. What remains is that according to the SNP's own figures the country loses billions even with its oil claim.

That deficit won't go away.


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
Midlander
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3391
Report 6 years ago
#3391
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Midlander heard it from his girlfriend who had heard it from a reliable drunk in the pub, so it must be absolutely true.

Seriously, Midlander doesn't give a damn about Scotland.

Regarding Wales, this is what he has said:

"If it were severed from Britain I wouldn't bat an eyelid"

If he has a shred of honesty, he should admit that he is against Scottish Independence because he believes that England would be worse off if it happened.

That would be a perfectly understandable viewpoint from someone who hates being in Scotland (said it himself on this thread) and seems to hate the Scots ("Angophobia is rife in Scotland").

Again if he said Anglophobia exists in Scotland, that wouldn't be challenged, but RIFE?.

EVERYONE (in Wales) hates England with a burning passion???
How many times have the SNP complained about being governed by a party which Scots didn't vote for? He may not explicitly have said 'nobody in Scotland votes Tory' however he insinuates it so closely in his rhetoric he might as well.

Back to the Greens-do they support Scotland whoring out to oil companies for cash?


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
FinalMH
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#3392
Report 6 years ago
#3392
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
L i b, the arch opponent of Scottish Independence has gone into hiding after posting TOTAL NONSENSE about the status of Scotland between 19th September 2013 and actual independence in 2016 in the event of a YES vote.

According to HIS TOTAL NONSENSE, Scotland will not be a European state until 2016. True. Scotland will still be apart of the United Kingdom until the Independence day, therefore the United Kingdom is the European State.

and so won't be able to enter into any negotiations regarding EU membership between 19th September 2014 and 2016, but somehow the UK can negotiate the membership of a 'foreign' entity which is not even a state. Are you being serious? The United Kingdom is a member of the European Union not England, Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland. Matters which involve the European Union are constitutional matters thus are not devolved. Once Scotland is an Independent state it can decide matters for itself at both a domestic and international level. If the United Kingdom government doesn't want to have discussions before the date of independence then there is nothing you can do about it. (Other words deal with it)

His other point is that Scotland will be a 'new' state in 2016, which will never have been a member of the EU, UN, NATO and can only knock at their doors in 2016 to become a 'new' member, while not being able to anything between 19th September 2014 and 2016. I very much doubt LIB is suggesting this. Scotland will remain part of the Union until the date of independence.


Will the 'new' state of Scotland have to take up a share of the National Debt of the 'old' state of the UK?

Well for one thing, there will be no old state. The only new state will be Scotland. I don't understand why Scotland believe it can revamp the whole of the United Kingdom with only a portion of the United Kingdom voting. Let's be honest if the UK was to become a new state don't you think the RUK would have a say in the matter?

What about the assets?

I ask about nuclear weapons because if it is a UK 'asset' PHYSICALLY SITUATED IN SCOTLAND, under "straightforward international law" [L i b], who will become the owner in 2016?

:rolleyes: Yeah absolutely, with the majority of the crew being British. I am always amused when Scottish people believe they can dictate the UK's nuclear weapons policy.



Or
Above.
0
Midlander
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3393
Report 6 years ago
#3393
(Original post by Choo.choo)
And if the document is unbiased, you don't think that Scotland should stop spending money it does not have?
The point about the articles and fiscal deficits/surpluses was to point out that one says one thing and the other the opposite....how to lie with statistics to suit your purpose.
Of course, we should balance revenues and expenditures so choices will have to be made....just as you and I make choices about how we spend our limited incomes.

As for Faslane and defence jobs, some jobs will be lost if nuclear subs are banned from Faslane for example...but some would argue that it is a price worth paying. It would be foolish for anyone to suggest that all defence jobs will go. We will have our own defence forces paid from our taxation revenues.

Why did the SNP gain a majority vote in the last election if people are 'so' against independence?
Do you not think it is telling you something that the SNP are winning more votes?

The debate will 'rage' for the next year.
People can vote for a party without advocating all of its policies. The billions of pounds in losses are the SNP's own figures and there is nothing independence can do to plug that gap.

Indeed it will only exacerbate matters as credit will be harder to come by for a fledgling country and if Salmond wants in the EU he is going to have to give English students free education. How will he wriggle out of that?


Posted from TSR Mobile
0
FinalMH
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#3394
Report 6 years ago
#3394
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Why are those against Scottish Independence terrified of giving a straight answer to a straight question?

So let me repeat a simple question:

Is Scotland subsidised by England? YES or NO? .
The question isn't a simple NO or Yes answer. It requires more information. Are you talking about an average since the start of the union? Are you talking about in the last 10 years? or are you implying the cherry picked data by the SNP?
0
Choo.choo
Badges: 8
Rep:
?
#3395
Report 6 years ago
#3395
(Original post by Midlander)
People can vote for a party without advocating all of its policies. The billions of pounds in losses are the SNP's own figures and there is nothing independence can do to plug that gap.

Indeed it will only exacerbate matters as credit will be harder to come by for a fledgling country and if Salmond wants in the EU he is going to have to give English students free education. How will he wriggle out of that?


Posted from TSR Mobile
No disrespect, but what you have said is just nonsense.
I have already presented my arguments - read back a few pages of this thread to find my counter argument.
0
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3396
Report 6 years ago
#3396
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
L i b, the arch opponent of Scottish Independence has gone into hiding after posting TOTAL NONSENSE about the status of Scotland between 19th September 2013 and actual independence in 2016 in the event of a YES vote.
Scotland will remain part of the UK from the referendum until independence.

According to HIS TOTAL NONSENSE, Scotland will not be a European state until 2016 and so won't be able to enter into any negotiations regarding EU membership between 19th September 2014 and 2016,
I believe this is true. Only independent states can do so.


but somehow the UK can negotiate the membership of a 'foreign' entity which is not even a state.
I don't see why the UK would wish to do this, nor why Scotland would want it, and can't see how it would work, so I disagree with that.

His other point is that Scotland will be a 'new' state in 2016, which will never have been a member of the EU, UN, NATO and can only knock at their doors in 2016 to become a 'new' member, while not being able to anything between 19th September 2014 and 2016.
Yes, I can't see why it would be anything different. Only independent states can do that. I'm sure Scottish politicians could establish contact with a view to entering negotiations quickly, but these things appear to take a long time.


Will the 'new' state of Scotland have to take up a share of the National Debt of the 'old' state of the UK?
I'm unclear why you put new in inverted commas; there is no doubt Scotland will be a new state. And you mean the continuing state of the UK, of course. But, yes. You are the only person arguing otherwise. Even Salmond accepts this. Scotland won't get its independence unless it does so.

What about the assets?
Obviously, Scotland will take rather a lot of assets.

I ask about nuclear weapons because if it is a UK 'asset' PHYSICALLY SITUATED IN SCOTLAND, under "straightforward international law" [L i b], who will become the owner in 2016?

Scotland or the UK?
UK. It can't be Scotland as the UK is a party to the test ban treaty and cannot pass such weapons on.


Or do they share? On what basis?
No they won't share, but Scotland doesn't appear to want them anyway.
0
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3397
Report 6 years ago
#3397
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Why are those against Scottish Independence terrified of giving a straight answer to a straight question?

So let me repeat a simple question:

Is Scotland subsidised by England? YES or NO?

What is YOUR opinion, not The Daily Mail's or The Scotsman's.
This, for me, isn't an issue on which independence should be based, and is irrelevant, but since you seem to be fixated on it I'll answer you. I don't care what newspapers I don't even read may say.

Whether Scotland is subsidised by the rest of the UK changes over time and according to the definition you use. It probably isn't at the moment by most definitions. However, independence is very much a long term business and what the details are at this point in time is completely and utterly irrelevant; fifty years and 100 ago things were different and they will be again. The south-east of England is always going to subsidise everyone else though, yet is never going to seek independence.

(Original post by Maths Tutor)
Doesn't matter if it is still rated by 3 of the 6 (probably the less credible ones)
:toofunny: Less credible ones? They are all perfectly credible and reputable. Unless you have enormous economic expertise, beyond that of national banking institutions, that allows you to judge that Fitch is more reputable than Standard & poor's, or that Moody's methodology is somehow intrinsically better than that of JCR, of course. Do you?
0
Aj12
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#3398
Report 6 years ago
#3398
Surely the subsidy question is quite a complex one? How much of Scotland's economic growth and tax revenues are based on factors that are directly or indirectly caused by UK government policy? For example Scotland's ship building industry, a large chunk of that will be because of BAE shipyards in Scotland that get contracts from the Royal Navy, these will stop if Scotland gains independence so a revenue source will be removed once it gains independence.
0
Good bloke
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3399
Report 6 years ago
#3399
(Original post by Aj12)
Surely the subsidy question is quite a complex one? How much of Scotland's economic growth and tax revenues are based on factors that are directly or indirectly caused by UK government policy? For example Scotland's ship building industry, a large chunk of that will be because of BAE shipyards in Scotland that get contracts from the Royal Navy, these will stop if Scotland gains independence so a revenue source will be removed once it gains independence.
Quite! That is, in fact, a hidden subsidy as Scotland is currently virtually guaranteed about a third of the Royal Navy's shipbuilding, maintenance and repair work (along with Plymouth and Portsmouth, in rotation) plus all its nuclear submarine work. It would be folly (and unacceptable to English defence workers) for the UK to send this work abroad to an independent Scotland and I'd expect it all to be shared by the English yards, or possibly a new one based at, say, Pembroke (if Trident has to move), in future.
0
Gordon1985
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#3400
Report 6 years ago
#3400
(Original post by Midlander)
Scotland's population makes up less than 10% of the UK population so the total deficit is obviously smaller.
Well it's obviously %age deficits that matter, isn't it. Scotland's %age defiicit is continually lower than the UK average.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Have you made up your mind on your five uni choices?

Yes I know where I'm applying (144)
60.25%
No I haven't decided yet (54)
22.59%
Yes but I might change my mind (41)
17.15%

Watched Threads

View All