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    late night rablings..

    With it being election day, I think my prefered choice is to stay with the same - con+lib coalition.

    The alternatives just worry me..

    I really dont like the snp, and quite frankly think it would be utterly ridiculous that 1 year after trying to leave the uk, they could now be in power over it..

    and labour well, I dont blame them for the reccession in the same way that many people do. I mean I understand that it wasnt all their fault, and that it was a global recession - but I also feel like they could have dealt with it better, and I really do not like the uncertainty of them at the moment..

    I mean, things are pretty good from my (maybe selfish) angle.. economy is ok, finances of the country seem seccure.. employment is up.. tax rate for top earners is down.. etc. - I am pretty happy with things.

    The idea of now swapping to a complete new team, headed by people who were involved in browns goverement, just seems to risky and full of unknowns for me.

    that coupled with edd.. I mean, the guy is great - geuinly, I think I would get on well with him, and have a laugh with him as a mate... but.. as a leader? not a chance - I am pretty sure in a random situation I could out manuver him to be in charge, let alone for the whole country. I have 0 faith in him for this role.. and whilst cameron does have his problems, he does come accross well as a leader.

    Sometimes it annoys me when people hold their background against them.. the whole 'oh but they went to eton + oxbridge + grew up in a posh family' .. personally for me that misses the point.. ok, if they use that background to give money to their mates + favour the elite, that can be critised (as it rightly should)

    But that background in itself should not be seen as a bad thing for a leader.. I mean what else do we want from our leader other then someone who has came through the best educational system we have to offer, and has been bassically trained their entire life for power.
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    I remember reading about a study conducted on soilders.. where they wanted to see who would cope well under pressure better.. soilders who came from poor backgrounds, who had struggled to get where they are.. or soilders from rich backgrounds who had never struggled.. Everyone expected the result to favour the harsher background, but in reality, those who coped best with harsh conditions and problems put in infront of them, were the well educated posh soilders.
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    (Original post by difeo)
    Are you claiming that the Conservatives haven't made £20bn in welfare cuts and that there isn't 500,000 people using food banks, or just that it doesn't matter?
    The welfare bill needed to be cut, it was simply unsustainable. I would still support further cuts providing they come in the right areas (e.g scrap child benefit for more than 2 children, raising claiming age to 21, working for dole etc).

    The one thing I'd change is the incredibly harsh sanctions system, which seems to be a ploy to get unemployment figures down.

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    The Independent candidate I was expecting to run and vote for wasn't on the ballot paper so I had to settle for the best of a bad bunch.

    There was a guy with the name Frank Underwood, ala House of Cards, who I was so tempted to vote for, but this was one of his parties candidates on TV recently
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    Just voted Labour, u mad
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    ****ing hell.

    There are roughly 800 million whatsapp users.

    With all paying 69p a year, that's £552m just from that..

    Not sure how else they make their money, but to think that it went from being just an app to this is pretty staggering.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    I mean what else do we want from our leader other then someone who has came through the best educational system we have to offer, and has been bassically trained their entire life for power.
    Somebody who understands the working man and woman, and their life in England.

    Having been a housemate of someone from a similar background, and having been to the public school's gentlemen's clubs on numerous occasions, having networked with them, been on nights out and generally lived life with them, I can tell you for fact that they don't have a ****ing clue what life is like for normal people. I don't know if Ed actually is better in this regard or not, but the Labour party as a whole definitely is.
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    (Original post by SA-1)
    ****ing hell.

    There are roughly 800 million whatsapp users.

    With all paying 69p a year, that's £552m just from that..

    Not sure how else they make their money, but to think that it went from being just an app to this is pretty staggering.
    I don't think most people do pay 69 a year. And there must be more revenue streams, I remember reading something about database management ages ago but can't find a link now.

    The amazing thing though is that when Facebook bought it for 19bn dollars, they were running with only 55 employees. It's incredible to think what a small, streamlined operation it is, and how big it's got. I think there's 1 million new users per day, and quite amazingly, something like 75% of registered users use it every day.

    If they want to monetise it properly at some point in the future, through the usual 'stickers' and 'addons' type bull****, they'll make so much. But that'd be complicating something that has made it's name through simplicity and a clutter-free approach, so we'll see. I'm not sure Facebook will go down that route; a merger of facebook chat and whatsapp at some point is a mouthwatering possibility for them, I'd guess.
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    Cameron as next Prime Minister has moved in at the bookies recently. Ominous.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Somebody who understands the working man and woman, and their life in England.

    Having been a housemate of someone from a similar background, and having been to the public school's gentlemen's clubs on numerous occasions, having networked with them, been on nights out and generally lived life with them, I can tell you for fact that they don't have a ****ing clue what life is like for normal people. I don't know if Ed actually is better in this regard or not, but the Labour party as a whole definitely is.
    I never like the phrase 'dont have a clue what life is like for normal people'

    Ofcourse they do..

    They have not done it themselves, no, but its silly to suggest that the only way you can understand something is to experience it first hand.

    Just like I can conceive what life is like for a guy in a rich family.. I have known some, spoken to some, seen where they grew up, scene their schools.. read about it - I can have a very good understanding about what it s like to grow up in a wealthy environment.. even though I did not myself.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    I never like the phrase 'dont have a clue what life is like for normal people'

    Ofcourse they do..

    They have not done it themselves, no, but its silly to suggest that the only way you can understand something is to experience it first hand.

    Just like I can conceive what life is like for a guy in a rich family.. I have known some, spoken to some, seen where they grew up, scene their schools.. read about it - I can have a very good understanding about what it s like to grow up in a wealthy environment.. even though I did not myself.
    They don't know the struggle. Nobody truly understands it until they've been through it. To think you know it as well as people going through it (ie as well as is necessary) is presumptuous and short-sighted. To think that Cameron a) knows it, b) understands it, and c) is willing to do anything about it, is silly, because it's quite evident that he's not.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    They don't know the struggle. Nobody truly understands it until they've been through it. To think you know it as well as people going through it (ie as well as is necessary) is presumptuous and short-sighted. To think that Cameron a) knows it, b) understands it, and c) is willing to do anything about it, is silly, because it's quite evident that he's not.
    How many MP's have experienced poverty, from any party? At best most senior figures are heavily middle class.


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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    How many MP's have experienced poverty, from any party? At best most senior figures are heavily middle class.
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    No doubt and I gave a similar disclaimer earlier, about Miliband's background. But from my personal experience, Labour candidates are more in tune with, and more empathetic of the average household, and there's less cliquey circles too.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    No doubt and I gave a similar disclaimer earlier, about Miliband's background. But from my personal experience, Labour candidates are more in tune with, and more empathetic of the average household, and there's less cliquey circles too.
    I think that's the point acorns was making. You either have to live it or you don't. If you need to experience poverty to understand it most MP's will fail that test. If it's about being in touch and such then it depends, candidate to candidate.

    My constituency is home and dry Tory, but if you took our MP away and tried to swap him out it wouldn't be at all. Guy goes hard for local people, pushed spending and infrastructure and went to bat for us against a massive corp with backing from Westminster, and won most recently. His background would not suggest that, nor would his party rep.




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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    They don't know the struggle. Nobody truly understands it until they've been through it. To think you know it as well as people going through it (ie as well as is necessary) is presumptuous and short-sighted. To think that Cameron a) knows it, b) understands it, and c) is willing to do anything about it, is silly, because it's quite evident that he's not.
    I fundimentally diagree - ofcourse you can never have the same experiance as someone who has been through it, but I do fully believe that you can understand it to a level that is acceptable for polticians,

    I would put it to you though, that having a leader who has been through a very impoverished background would be even less representative, then one who has lead a comfortable life. - after all, the vast majority of people in the uk grow up in comfortable enviroments and have not experianced true struggle in their lives.

    But again, you dont need to have actually experianced it, to empathise, understand and support - there have been many great politicans from well-off backgrounds who have helped the countries poorest and most in need... Equally there have been many terrible politicians from well-off backgrounds who have dicked over the poor. Its not the background that causes this, its their personality/outlook.
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    I fundimentally diagree - ofcourse you can never have the same experiance as someone who has been through it, but I do fully believe that you can understand it to a level that is acceptable for polticians,

    I would put it to you though, that having a leader who has been through a very impoverished background would be even less representative, then one who has lead a comfortable life. - after all, the vast majority of people in the uk grow up in comfortable enviroments and have not experianced true struggle in their lives.

    But again, you dont need to have actually experianced it, to empathise, understand and support - there have been many great politicans from well-off backgrounds who have helped the countries poorest and most in need... Equally there have been many terrible politicians from well-off backgrounds who have dicked over the poor. Its not the background that causes this, its their personality/outlook.
    It's not an acceptable level. I know these people. I know them as human beings. I know young men who will be the next leaders of this country, who will be part of future cabinets and government ministries. Maybe they have maturing still to do but I'd bet all my savings that they don't. They do not have an acceptable level of understanding as to the 'struggles' of the common man and woman. And the reason they don't is because of their upbringing, and their influences within their party.

    Do you really believe that someone from a working class family (nowhere did I ever mention poverty) is less representative of this nation than someone educated at Eton? Are you hearing yourself?

    Are you trying to play off the role of education and upbringing in determining one's personality and outlook?

    Ultimately this discussion is going nowhere. I'm telling you with certainty that these men do not understand or empathise with the average man and woman. You can debate to me whether that's important or not, whether Labour would be better or not, but you can't really debate that fact. It is fact, and unarguable.
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    I think that's the point acorns was making. You either have to live it or you don't. If you need to experience poverty to understand it most MP's will fail that test. If it's about being in touch and such then it depends, candidate to candidate.

    My constituency is home and dry Tory, but if you took our MP away and tried to swap him out it wouldn't be at all. Guy goes hard for local people, pushed spending and infrastructure and went to bat for us against a massive corp with backing from Westminster, and won most recently. His background would not suggest that, nor would his party rep.
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    Experience poverty? No. But understand it better than they do? Yes. And whether Labour would be better or not, I can only tell you that from their policies, and the make-up of their candidates, it seems that they probably will.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    Experience poverty? No. But understand it better than they do? Yes. And whether Labour would be better or not, I can only tell you that from their policies, and the make-up of their candidates, it seems that they probably will.
    There's a clear difference between the ability to be empathetic and the ability to implement competent policies that tackle the issues we face.
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    What are your lots constituencies like? Mine is a Lib Dem stronghold.
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    (Original post by Pimped Butterfly)
    It's not an acceptable level. I know these people. I know them as human beings. I know young men who will be the next leaders of this country, who will be part of future cabinets and government ministries. Maybe they have maturing still to do but I'd bet all my savings that they don't. They do not have an acceptable level of understanding as to the 'struggles' of the common man and woman. And the reason they don't is because of their upbringing, and their influences within their party.

    Do you really believe that someone from a working class family (nowhere did I ever mention poverty) is less representative of this nation than someone educated at Eton? Are you hearing yourself?

    Are you trying to play off the role of education and upbringing in determining one's personality and outlook?

    Ultimately this discussion is going nowhere. I'm telling you with certainty that these men do not understand or empathise with the average man and woman. You can debate to me whether that's important or not, whether Labour would be better or not, but you can't really debate that fact. It is fact, and unarguable.
    Hold on, a post back you said 'true struggle' - now you are saying working class..

    There is a big difference between facing true struggle and being working class.

    + Fact? Your telling me I cant debate against it, because you know some posh guys who you met, and did not come across well?

    Since when has knowing some people been 'fact' - because you know, most people would define that as anecdotal evidence, rather then a 'fact'

    It holds no more weight then me saying:

    "It's an acceptable level. I know these people. I know them as human beings. I know young men who will be the next leaders of this country, who will be part of future cabinets and government ministries. Maybe they have maturing still to do but I'd bet all my savings that they don't. They do have an acceptable level of understanding as to the 'struggles' of the common man and woman. And the reason they do is because of their education and upbringing, and their influences outside of their party."


    See that? thats why your evidence is not 'fact' - there is no more proof that my statement is more truth then yours, as it is all based on people we supposedly know and experience we supposedly have had.

    So here is some reasoning for you, instead of just your claims of who you know:

    - Labour the 'pary of the people' at its highest levels is also made up largely of people from rich backgrounds.. yet they can apparently represent the people to a good degree..
    - Conserative 'kick the poor in the nuts' party, at hits highest level is also made up of largely people from rich backgrounds - yet apparently they can not represent the people to a good degree..

    So what is it? well.. maybe its not their background which decides whether they can understand and empathise with the people.. maybe its either ideology/outlook, which comes from sources external to just their wealth.
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    (Original post by Depleted)
    What are your lots constituencies like? Mine is a Lib Dem stronghold.
    conservative strong-hold..

    Problem is our MP is Dr. liam fox.

    Who is an absolute c u u nt .

    met him quite a few times, and he comes across as the most slimey and sleezy guy ever. - yet he will get in every year, because people vote for the party not the person down here.
 
 
 
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