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    (Original post by Yanyar)
    the Ottomans saved Jewish people from genocide in Europe by sending in fleets of ships and taking in all of the Jewish people and throughout history Jewish people have lived in Muslim communities and nations without any genocide or hatred occurring..
    Hence why they sided with the Nazis.
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    (Original post by pane123)
    It's 14 years old. Look, I can copy and paste from Wikipedia, too:

    "However many remain sceptical of Hamas's new stance, and view it as a ploy to hide its true agenda."
    Well we can debate about Hamas's true intentions for days and pretend we have the faintest clue what their plans are, but neither of us have a ****ing clue. What we do know though are the simple facts - Israel has been oppressing the Palestinian people for decades and continues to break countless international laws to this day; they have been the aggressor throughout the conflict and despite some heavy backing from the US, control of American media, and attempts to spin the story into looking like the innocent helpless victims, they remain the obvious cause of this war. Hamas, whilst guilty of several things themselves, are a natural and expected response to years of such treatment. And the only ones destroying whole city blocks full of civilians are Israel, and the argument that it's their "only option" wore thin years ago. So let's cut the bull**** now, it's getting old
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    I'd like to see how this stat was compiled because over 40% of Gaza has been invaded by Israelis, so the Gazans are crammed in to the remaining portion. 'Officially' and reality are two different things when it comes to Gaza and where the borders lie
    I don't think a temporary ground invasion counts as 40% being taken up.

    Facts are facts kid.

    When the BBC tell you it's the most densely or one of the most densely populated places - you'll now know they're talking bull
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    (Original post by Pinzgauer)
    I don't think a temporary ground invasion counts as 40% being taken up.

    Facts are facts kid.

    When the BBC tell you it's the most densely or one of the most densely populated places - you'll now know they're talking bull
    Settlements aren't temporary

    How can you deny the death toll? Over 1300 vs 58. That paints a picture of what's actually happening, with the majority being women and children. Israel is directly killing civilians whether you like to admit it or not. Facts are facts
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    (Original post by Sic semper erat)
    French is not merely a nationality. The Frankish people have a long history, way before Charlemagne even. They are a people.
    Before Charlemagne (who arguably was more a German than French figure), what is now France had been controlled by the Roman Empire for 500 years.

    France, like most other countries in Europe, was for most of post-Roman history a complex patchwork of various feudal polities. It wasn't until the 17th Century that it became anything like a united state, and right up until 1789 there was no uniformity of law, language, or culture. As with most of the world in the age of nation-states, the idea of there being a distinct French 'nation' or 'people' is largely recent nationalist pseudohistory.


    You know what confuses me the most? its the fact that on the one hand, you recognize the Palestinians as a separate people who deserve a state of their own - while at the same time, you act as if they live in Israel (which they dont) and are their responsibility, ignoring that the Palestinians have not only one but two governments (the PA and Hamas) that have full civil control over them. Which is it? is Gaza Israeli territory or not? make up your mind. You cant have it both ways.
    The Palestinian territories are not part of Israel proper, but are nevertheless occupied and controlled by it. Until the occupation is ended and sovereignty established in the territories, Israel has certain obligations as an occupying power towards its occupied population.

    To put your question another way, is the West Bank Israeli territory? If not, then why is it occupied by Israel? Why has it been settled with 375,000 Israelis?

    Britain and France also created 22 Arab states that never in history had existed. You act as if Israel is the only country that was created. When was Jordan created? 1946. When was Syria created? 1943. When was Qatar created? 1972.
    The difference is that these were not transplanted states. States like Syria and Iraq were the result of the previous ruler, the Ottoman Empire, losing control over the region and new states formed to replace it, governing the already-present population. Israel, by contrast, was a state formed to govern a mostly new population recently arrived there precisely for that purpose.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Hamas are the aggressors. "Palestine" has been offered the two state agreement on numerous occasions, once with 94% of their demands and they rejected for war on Israel, so who are the terrorists?

    When 3 nations gang up on you like 1967 and talk about destroying Israel, we clearly know who the aggressors are. I wish the Israeli's well and no loss of innocent human life.
    Bill_Gates you just said that they were going to destroy "Israel", well if they never took over Palestine in 1948 then there wouldn't need to "gang up" on israel. Why would you want to a state where the majority of people were muslims?
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    that dude in the video has a really weak argument tbh


    "What would you do, if you were the Israeli prime minister? How would you deal with people who want you and your entire population dead?"

    Well for starters, I would get out of their homeland.
    And I wouldn't cut down food, electricity, medicine supplies and the basic human rights of the original people who used to live where I do. 
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Every one of the myths Israel is using to justify its continued apartheid and genocide has been very effectively debunked below:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehd...b_5624401.html

    What's more if you examine these Hamas-Israel conflicts over the past ten or so years, you will find that it is Israel which has broken ceasefires almost every time without any kind of provocation from the other side.

    Let's face it- anyone who is anti-Palestine is using a pro-Israeli facade as a cover for their hatred for ordinary Muslims (incidentally Christians also suffer and are humiliated by the Israelis).
    In the same way that someone who says they despise Zionists are using the term as a way to comfortably mask their hatred of Jews.
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    (Original post by TheMoho)
    that dude in the video has a really weak argument tbh


    "What would you do, if you were the Israeli prime minister? How would you deal with people who want you and your entire population dead?"

    Well for starters, I would get out of their homeland.
    And I wouldn't cut down food, electricity, medicine supplies and the basic human rights of the original people who used to live where I do. 
    Get out of their homeland and go where exactly?
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    So the oppressed should run away and hand over their homes and land. Are you serious? They have centuries of history.

    Since when was it acceptable to support ethnic cleansing (that is what it is), annihilation of an indigenous people by force and genocide?

    Hamas and religious extremism are red herrings. Israel are the state terrorists. Israel are oppressing people, stealing their land, massacring them in the streets, cutting off food and water supplies. When people are desperate, they tend to fight back with any means possible (Hamas). Do you seriously expect Arabs to live on less than 20% of the land, and in terms of Gaza the Palestinians have already lost over 40% of the land. If you can't see that Israel's aim is total capture of Gaza and the West Bank then you are incredibly naive at best. Israel is why there is no peace. They want to wipe Palestine off the map.

    Does it not strike you why America allows Israel free reign to do as it pleases-- not only allows it, but arms it to it's teeth with the most advanced weaponry on the planet? Why Israel is allowed to break countless UN resolutions (Iran breaking one will be all out war, to put it in to perspective) and flout international law? Why is Israel above the law? Why does Europe not condemn them? Why aren't there sanctions on Israel? Why is there utter inaction against them? Why are there double standards?

    Do you not believe in the existence of religious extremism? or just that Hamas is involved in it? I will assume by the lack of answer that you are anti-semitic due to your own religious beliefs... next thing you'll be spouting is how the holocaust "didn't happen" that was actual ethnic cleansing.

    This is returning a people to their homeland... and considering their religion - and therefore their existence - started before 600AD, you know, since the world had been around a lot longer than that, it is merely reclaiming what was taken from them.... the indigenous people... and if you wanna get nitpicky, then the Vatican can lay claim to Jesus' homeland and can pay off either side and we'll have a Vatican Strip between Egypt and Israel and be done with the warmongering - cos nobody messes with the POPE!

    Well done, you have alienated another person by your own religious extremism and converted me from not caring to becoming pro-Israel... your argument is flawed to the point of delusion and good luck to you in your quest.
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    Which side are you on?! Do people realise how complex this issue is?


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    Israel wouldn't need to exist if it humanity could be trusted not to attempt genocide.
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    Why is it that everyone is so anti-Israel when it is Palestine who started the conflict, Palestine who attacked Israel despite being given the Gaza strip as a sign of peace and Palestine who wants to eradicate Israel? What am I missing here? :confused:
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    (Original post by Samia95)
    Maybe another reason why I am for the Palestinians is because innocent people are being massacred while the world looks idly on? How many Israeli civilians have been killed?? Please don't try to act as if conflict is balanced when it's far from it. You only just have to see the death toll to know that it clearly isn't.
    I abhor the events that have occurred over the last few weeks in Palestine, and the deaths of civilians. But what you said went a bit further than that - you said that no self-identifying Muslim could support Israel on the basis that the Palestinian civilians are Muslims. It was an appeal to Muslim community, not humanity.

    You can't just backpaddle on the above, and straw-manning me won't help either.
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    (Original post by EL704)
    Do you not believe in the existence of religious extremism? or just that Hamas is involved in it? I will assume by the lack of answer that you are anti-semitic due to your own religious beliefs... next thing you'll be spouting is how the holocaust "didn't happen" that was actual ethnic cleansing.

    This is returning a people to their homeland... and considering their religion - and therefore their existence - started before 600AD, you know, since the world had been around a lot longer than that, it is merely reclaiming what was taken from them.... the indigenous people... and if you wanna get nitpicky, then the Vatican can lay claim to Jesus' homeland and can pay off either side and we'll have a Vatican Strip between Egypt and Israel and be done with the warmongering - cos nobody messes with the POPE!

    Well done, you have alienated another person by your own religious extremism and converted me from not caring to becoming pro-Israel... your argument is flawed to the point of delusion and good luck to you in your quest.
    Where do you get all of these assumptions. I think you are the most deluded person on this thread. Please pinpoint my extremist views before retorting in a baseless manner like a child.

    Hamas have NOTHING to do with religious extremism. Don't make me laugh. They are borne out of desperation of the oppressed Palestinian people. They are fighting for their homeland, not a religion. Israeli 'extremism' is rather evident if you want to go down that route. Claiming that it is their homeland, based on a fictional character called King David? In this secular world, how does that hold up? There is no such evidence of a person existing. In any case, the Palestinians (Muslims, Christians and Jews) have lived here far longer than the current Zionist regime. It is their homeland.

    Since when does objecting to ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Christians (Arabs) in the region make someone an anti-semite? Are Zionists allowed to kill people using the Holocaust card?

    Maybe an Israeli Jew can convince you:

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    how can u be a muslim and support israel, excuse me i fink there sumfink wrong with that brain of yours sorry to say. you do knw something as a muslim u should always always support our muslims brothers and sister no matter if there are not blood family.
    I SAY IM AM A PROUD MUSLIMS AND SUPPORT THE PALESTINIANS!!!
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    (Original post by H0PEL3SS)
    I support Palestine because there is a blockade preventing them from living their lives in a normal way. Hamas is an issue that needs to be dealt with later, because the most pressing one is the Israeli oppression.
    Secondly, I don't hate jews. I hate the Israelis who watch shells fall on Palestine and eat popcorn whilst doing so. Hating Israel is distinctly different to hating jews, in the same way that hating Christians is different to hating Americans, for example. Playing the anti-Semitism card doesn't work when I have said nothing against jews. You have said much against Islam, so there is a clear illogical reason for you to support Israel. Point out a post where I have said something that is clearly anti-Semitic.
    Israel sees Gaza as something that needs regular maintenance and that in itself is enough for me to support Palestine. The UN gave details of the most recently bombed shelter, yet sleeping civilians were killed by Israel. If you condone that, you're obviously too blinded by hatred to see reason.
    Ideally, I'd like to see the 2 state resolution. But that won't happen as long as Israel generates hatred among Palestinians which gives Hamas power. Many Palestinians do not support Hamas. It would be similar to living under Boko Haram, but between the person bombing your home and your enemy who is against said person, you only have one logical choice.
    1. The blockade- the blockade is a direct result of attacks by Hamas on Israel.
    In 2005 (despite threats from anti-Semitic Hamas) Israel signed an agreement with the PA that gave Palestine COMPLETE control over it's own exports/imports. Israel also paid 100 million dollars in aid to Palestine.

    In 2007 Hamas staged a violent coup, removing the current government (who had the agreement with Israel) slaughtered many of their own beloved Palestinians which included throwing people form roof tops and shooting in cold blood the already wounded. They then declared themselves the new government and declared there war on Israel. Hamas are a terrorist organisation.
    Israel then set up an entirely LEGAL blockade which is wholly sanctioned by the UN to prevent Hamas (terrorist organisation) from importing arms that could be used against Israel.

    2. You hate the Jews who watch the bombs drop while while eating popcorn. Therefore I assume you must equally hate the people of Palestine who openly celebrated in the streets at the death of innocent civilians in the terrorist attack of 9/11.

    3. The people who oppose Hamas are the ones I truly feel for and I sympathise with them a great deal because they are dying for a cause that have no say in, unfortunately this is an all to common story and is the same with every conflict in history, it's the innocent who suffer.
    Hamas have made it quite clear that they will not be happy until Israel is eradicated entirely. There is no room for compromise, that was the intention of Hamas before they even took power. Hamas cannot however defeat Israel with mere rockets as long as the iron dome exists. Therefore Hamas will actively continue to cause civilian deaths which they can use as propaganda to stir up anti-semitism in West in the hope the west will take military action action Israel or open the blockade to allow them access to more advanced weaponry.
    Hamas couldn't care less about civilians whether Israeli or Palestinian. The deliberately stash weapons, hide themselves and fire weapons in civilian only zones because they know exactly what the result will be.
    The fact that Hamas would deliberately set up civilians to be murdered so they can be used as propaganda should tell you exactly what sort if organisation they are. This is exactly why Hamas should never be given the upper hand and precisely why Israel is being rather relentless if you look at things from their perspective, if Hamas would do such a thing to their own people what would they do the the Israelis.
    I do believe however Israel is being rather excessive despite that I can see their reasons for doing so.
    In conclusion, there will be no peace and no negotiation as long as Hamas is in power.





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    (Original post by bertstare)
    Well we can debate about Hamas's true intentions for days and pretend we have the faintest clue what their plans are, but neither of us have a ****ing clue. What we do know though are the simple facts - Israel has been oppressing the Palestinian people for decades and continues to break countless international laws to this day; they have been the aggressor throughout the conflict and despite some heavy backing from the US, control of American media, and attempts to spin the story into looking like the innocent helpless victims, they remain the obvious cause of this war. Hamas, whilst guilty of several things themselves, are a natural and expected response to years of such treatment. And the only ones destroying whole city blocks full of civilians are Israel, and the argument that it's their "only option" wore thin years ago. So let's cut the bull**** now, it's getting old
    Whether they claim it's relevant or not, that charter was written by Hamas and shows its opinion on the Jewish people. The same leader who cosigned the charter to history has said recently that he will not live side-by-side with Israel. There is no question that Israel is in just about the worst place it could be, but the fact is that it exists and isn't going anywhere. So, back to my original question, which was, "do you honestly think Israel would be left in peace if it were to disarm?" The answer to this is an emphatic "NO".

    As I've said, I do not approve with the actions of Israel, but what is it meant to do when Hamas refuses to acknowledge or accept its existence, whether it is oppressing Palestinians or not?
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    (Original post by Brann)
    At the core I support Israel because I understand the need for a Jewish state, I'm confident that their can be a peaceful outcome and I recognise the great things that Israel has to offer e.g. great stem cell advances, its domesticly very progressive and it is democratic. However I disagree with Benjamin Netanyahu's agenda because it clearly does not prioritise peace.
    Why does the world need a jewish state anymore than a buddhist or mormon state.
    Your confident of a future outcome when 100s are dying everyday guess thats a price worth paying
    Stem Cell advances can come from anywhere
    israel is not progressive its parliament resembles something like greece

    Netyahu is elected by the people and represents them
 
 
 
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