The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

This discussion is closed.
JoeL1994
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3521
Report 4 years ago
#3521
(Original post by Aph)
Not really, not without massive reform.

Maybe that it's immoral to make money from vital services.
And if the companies that are now providing healthcare are providing better care than the NHS - what then?
0
McRite
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#3522
Report 4 years ago
#3522
(Original post by That Bearded Man)
Pretty brutal for Milliband, Cameron got off very lightly, didn't really answer any of the questions, but came off quite well and hasn't said anything that has put people off.

Clegg as always came across well, but ultimately, gave no more reassurances about a coalition.

Milliband impressed me again, stood by the unpopular option (EU) - for me, he gets better. He really should have should have said about hindsight regarding spending, but that would always have ended badly. Apparently the blond woman met Osbourne afterwards, audience very vocal against Milliband.
Imo I think it's ridiculous to leave the EU. Don't know if Lib-dems will have any ability to make a coalition.
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3523
Report 4 years ago
#3523
(Original post by JoeL1994)
And if the companies that are now providing healthcare are providing better care than the NHS - what then?
Then we nationalise them... And making profit from others suffering is always wrong.
0
McRite
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#3524
Report 4 years ago
#3524
(Original post by thehistorybore)
Well in the interim, do you accept that capitalism is presently the most viable option?
Never
0
bun
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#3525
Report 4 years ago
#3525
(Original post by Kittiara)
Stop drinking? Nuh uh! *hugs Diet Coke* I may have to drink the stronger stuff soon... full sugar Coke!
I stick to the opinion that the stronger stuff is better for you! I don't really drink either; I really only drink water or beer haha, but I went on a Chemistry 'gifted and talented' school trip to the Coca Cola factory, and the 8 of us who went got a Q&A (free drink for every question asked ) with the boss. My question was very nasty, (considering I was only 14 at the time) and very nearly meant I didn't get my free drink. My teacher looked very worred I asked 'if there's no sugar, no calories, no etc etc etc, what exactly do you put in it to make diet coke taste 'nice', and just how bad is that substance for us"
The answer was a very flustered 'the recipe's a close guarded secret I'm afraid - have a nice free drink'. If I'm honest, I suspect the aspartame is safe, but I've always said if I'm going to get ill, it might as well be by the natural stuff and not worrying. Butter over margarine, sugar over sweetener etc. No chemical rubbish
0
KingStannis
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3526
Report 4 years ago
#3526
(Original post by JoeL1994)
I wouldn't see education as collectivist while there's still private/independent/faith schools.



Some
people care. Unless everybody does, it's irrelevant.

The NHS isn't being sold, parts of it are. As long as it's being sold off to the right people, why not? Healthcare organisations are all subject to the same inspections/regulation.
But if you're saying every collectivised system for services aside from the NHS has failed, then we should get rid of the State system?

In principle, selling off 20% of the nhs to reduce costs sounds like a great idea. However, health care is not an intuitive market and it isn't working. The prices for drugs to treat a person for simple illnesses runs into the thousands; and yet the drugs cost a few pounds. The markets aren't working.
0
JoeL1994
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3527
Report 4 years ago
#3527
(Original post by Aph)
Then we nationalise them... And making profit from others suffering is always wrong.
And if companies do not want to be nationalised? I don't see it as people's suffering, I see it as getting a fair wage for bringing someone back to health.
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3528
Report 4 years ago
#3528
(Original post by JoeL1994)
And if companies do not want to be nationalised? I don't see it as people's suffering, I see it as getting a fair wage for bringing someone back to health.
And the director who doesn't do anything? He just makes obscene money from their suffering?
0
thehistorybore
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#3529
Report 4 years ago
#3529
I'm sorry, Liberals, but your manifesto is a little ugly

Oh and I'm afraid the Socialist costing appears to be complete drivel. I also do not agree that imposing heavy taxes on the rich is the mark of a 'fairer society'.

Kudos to the Greens, that is an attractive manifesto.

To all who have mentioned FPTP compared to PR, PR can be incredibly inefficient if not kept within % representation to qualify limits. Otherwise, decision making becomes inefficient... See Weimar Republic Reichstag.

Well done all, and best of luck, although not too much luck
0
KingStannis
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3530
Report 4 years ago
#3530
(Original post by Aph)
Then we nationalise them... And making profit from others suffering is always wrong.
I simply don't get this argument.

Person A heals person B.

Scenario 1: Person A benefits and person B benefits.

Scenerio 2: Person A does not benefit, and person B benefits.


There are immoral examples of scenerio 1, sure, but not accepting it means that you think it is WRONG that Dr get paid for treating patients. You actually think the idea that clinicians treating patients not getting an income and living on the street is actually a good thing in principle. u mad bro?
0
JoeL1994
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3531
Report 4 years ago
#3531
(Original post by KingStannis)
But if you're saying every collectivised system for services aside from the NHS has failed, then we should get rid of the State system?

In principle, selling off 20% of the nhs to reduce costs sounds like a great idea. However, health care is not an intuitive market and it isn't working. The prices for drugs to treat a person for simple illnesses runs into the thousands; and yet the drugs cost a few pounds. The markets aren't working.
My mistake - I like the education system. I'd like to see a reintroduction of grammar schools but hey ho.

You're right, but a company's moral compass is driven by profit. Besides that, drugs aren't the key part of health care, it's the people.
0
JoeL1994
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3532
Report 4 years ago
#3532
(Original post by Aph)
And the director who doesn't do anything? He just makes obscene money from their suffering?
If ignorance is bliss you must be ecstatic.

Do you not understand what it takes to be the director of a company? Let alone one providing Health/Social care?
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3533
Report 4 years ago
#3533
(Original post by KingStannis)
I simply don't get this argument.

Person A heals person B.

Scenario 1: Person A benefits and person B benefits.

Scenerio 2: Person A does not benefit, and person B benefits.


There are immoral examples of scenerio 1, sure, but not accepting it means that you think it is WRONG that Dr get paid for treating patients. You actually think the idea that clinicians treating patients not getting an income and living on the street is actually a good thing in principle. u mad bro?
I accept that doctors need to get paid, but the rest of them don't.
0
KingStannis
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3534
Report 4 years ago
#3534
(Original post by JoeL1994)
My mistake - I like the education system. I'd like to see a reintroduction of grammar schools but hey ho.

You're right, but a company's moral compass is driven by profit. Besides that, drugs aren't the key part of health care, it's the people.
Fair enough.

I don't have a principled objection to using the profit motive as a tool to improve healthcare, but i just don't think it's doing what we wanted it to do; bring down costs. So we should stop. And also stop with this silly rhetoric of "removing bureaucrats". All that does is make nurses do the management roles move to clinicians who should be focusing on providing care. That's hardly going to increase incentives to get more nurses in the nhs.
0
KingStannis
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3535
Report 4 years ago
#3535
(Original post by Aph)
I accept that doctors need to get paid, but the rest of them don't.
So nurses shouldn't be paid?
0
That Bearded Man
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3536
Report 4 years ago
#3536
(Original post by bun)
Obviously we'll disagree because of the politics, but I thought Clegg came out on top there. Handled himself well, was quite open, honest and made several good points.
Cameron got a fair amount of flak too, but he handled it better than Miliband. That said, I think Cameron was quite weak on the waiting times stuff.

Left wing audience was won over by Cameron somewhat I think, and whilst Miliband improved as he got into it, I think it's telling that a Yorkshire, predominantly left wing audience was quick to criticise him. He's got his work cut out, I think.
The audience was far more vicious, Cameron didn't even answer, say, the food bank question, while Dimbleby allowed them to ask multiple questions, and a question about the EU became something different.

and not a left wing audience, 25% each plus 25% other (probably UKIP)
0
JoeL1994
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3537
Report 4 years ago
#3537
(Original post by KingStannis)
Fair enough.

I don't have a principled objection to using the profit motive as a tool to improve healthcare, but i just don't think it's doing what we wanted it to do; bring down costs. So we should stop. And also stop with this silly rhetoric of "removing bureaucrats". All that does is make nurses do the management roles move to clinicians who should be focusing on providing care. That's hardly going to increase incentives to get more nurses in the nhs.
Nurses increase in autonomy and responsibility means greater job prospects for nurses. I think prospective nurses will relish the chance for this greater scope in making a difference personally, and I think I have a valid opinion on this because...

(Original post by Aph)
I accept that doctors need to get paid, but the rest of them don't.
Wow...I'm going to be a nurse, so are you going to pay my salary?

If I could swear on here, I would.
0
PetrosAC
  • Political Ambassador
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#3538
Report 4 years ago
#3538
(Original post by thehistorybore)
I'm sorry, Liberals, but your manifesto is a little ugly

Oh and I'm afraid the Socialist costing appears to be complete drivel. I also do not agree that imposing heavy taxes on the rich is the mark of a 'fairer society'.

Kudos to the Greens, that is an attractive manifesto.

To all who have mentioned FPTP compared to PR, PR can be incredibly inefficient if not kept within % representation to qualify limits. Otherwise, decision making becomes inefficient... See Weimar Republic Reichstag.

Well done all, and best of luck, although not too much luck
It's not about what it looks like, it's about what it says

To be fair, The Green and Tory manifestos look great visually. Reading them all now.

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
KingStannis
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3539
Report 4 years ago
#3539
(Original post by JoeL1994)
Nurses increase in autonomy and responsibility means greater job prospects for nurses. I think prospective nurses will relish the chance for this greater scope in making a difference personally, and I think I have a valid opinion on this because...



Wow...I'm going to be a nurse, so are you going to pay my salary?

If I could swear on here, I would.
My mum's a nurse. I assure you more work for the same pay doesn't appeal. Managers ARE needed too.
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3540
Report 4 years ago
#3540
(Original post by KingStannis)
So nurses shouldn't be paid?
(Original post by JoeL1994)
Nurses increase in autonomy and responsibility means greater job prospects for nurses. I think prospective nurses will relish the chance for this greater scope in making a difference personally, and I think I have a valid opinion on this because...



Wow...I'm going to be a nurse, so are you going to pay my salary?

If I could swear on here, I would.
What I mean is that someone who isn't directly involved in the process shouldn't be paid, I'd also like to see drug researchers nationalised due to the excessive amounts they charge.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Why wouldn't you turn to teachers if you were being bullied?

They might tell my parents (18)
6.98%
They might tell the bully (26)
10.08%
I don't think they'd understand (42)
16.28%
It might lead to more bullying (93)
36.05%
There's nothing they could do (79)
30.62%

Watched Threads

View All