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Official 2011 Six Nations Thread Watch

  • View Poll Results: Winner of 2011 Nations
    Ireland Title
    3
    2.54%
    Ireland Grand Slam
    9
    7.63%
    England Title
    32
    27.12%
    England Grand Slam
    31
    26.27%
    Wales Title
    6
    5.08%
    Wales Grand Slam
    5
    4.24%
    Scotland Title
    8
    6.78%
    Scotland Grand Slam
    2
    1.69%
    France Title
    11
    9.32%
    France Grand Slam
    4
    3.39%
    Italy Title
    2
    1.69%
    Italy Grand Slam
    5
    4.24%

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    (Original post by nacho_libre)
    Fact is though that the majority of Super 15 teams have fly-halves that are better than the Home Nations starting 10s. Stephen Jones is way past his best (and Hook is a 12 not a 10), Dan Parkes is average (the best Scotland will get) and Toby Flood is far too inconsistent to be a top 10. So yes, Sexton is the best, but hardly an achievement to sing about.

    Mind, at least we aren't as bad off as the Italians. HAH.
    The Italy win over France was the up there in my favourite rugby games I've ever seen. Don't knock them. :yy:
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    (Original post by QwentyJ)
    Um, no. Ruraidh Jackson and Greg Laidlaw. Parks fits a certain gameplan, so he's best for that one gameplan.
    I don't follow Pro12 very much at all so I don't see much of provincial Scottish rugby, but if Ruraidh Jackson is now considered a better starting 10 for Scotland than Parks after a handful caps (compared to Parks' six/seven years of service) then clearly the situation for Scottish fly-halves has been even more dire than I imagined.

    Also Greg who? Has this guy even won a cap yet? Bit desperate that.


    (Original post by Roobsa)
    The Italy win over France was the up there in my favourite rugby games I've ever seen. Don't knock them. :yy:
    I was referring to Italy's situation with regards to their fly-half. Obviously they have a formidable pack, but their backline is shocking for a tier 1 nation, the biggest hole being at fly-half. Italy do have to be commended for that France win, considering they had Orquera at 10 (who is undoubtedly the worst top-level fly half in world rugby today).
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    (Original post by nacho_libre)
    I don't follow Pro12 very much at all so I don't see much of provincial Scottish rugby, but if Ruraidh Jackson is now considered a better starting 10 for Scotland than Parks after a handful caps (compared to Parks' six/seven years of service) then clearly the situation for Scottish fly-halves has been even more dire than I imagined.

    Also Greg who? Has this guy even won a cap yet? Bit desperate that.
    Sure, it's been dire, but it's gotten better. At least we have a choice now. Duncan Weir, Jackson, Laidlaw, Hutton - there are a number of up and coming fly-halfs coming through. You haven't heard of Laidlaw, but he is in the 32 man squad - he can play Scrum half and Fly half.
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    (Original post by nacho_libre)
    Carter? James? Contepomi? Best in the NH yes, but that's just because the other 6N fly-halves are woeful. On a world stage, not even close to the best.
    Carter is off form by his own standards. I'd rate him third now. James isnt top five yet. Contepomi is essentially Sexton. He trained Sexton into the player he is and is without doubt one of the calmest yet creative fly halfs in the game. By that im trying to describe how he plays, his temper isnt always best, especially against eh, munster jerseys.

    He's still a creative genius but i wouldnt class him as being near Sextons standards currently taking both of there current forms into account.

    A great fly half should be able to shoot goals with extremely high accuracy (Check, sexton ended the Heineken cup with 88% shot rate) able to move a backline to superb ability (Check, Leinsters backline has been, as usual, one of the most exciting in Europe and has scored the most trys. The wrap around, although started by Contepomi, has been perfected by Sexton) and should provide the ideal platform for second phase attack (Check, again Leinster have scored the most tries out of any team this year, no doubt due to second phase play) - And theres also the tag of a special player - i.e. a BOD, Carter etc. who can win a game single handedly, which i stated before in my previous comment.
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    (Original post by TheDubs)
    Carter is off form by his own standards. I'd rate him third now. James isnt top five yet. Contepomi is essentially Sexton. He trained Sexton into the player he is and is without doubt one of the calmest yet creative fly halfs in the game. By that im trying to describe how he plays, his temper isnt always best, especially against eh, munster jerseys.

    He's still a creative genius but i wouldnt class him as being near Sextons standards currently taking both of there current forms into account.

    A great fly half should be able to shoot goals with extremely high accuracy (Check, sexton ended the Heineken cup with 88% shot rate) able to move a backline to superb ability (Check, Leinsters backline has been, as usual, one of the most exciting in Europe and has scored the most trys. The wrap around, although started by Contepomi, has been perfected by Sexton) and should provide the ideal platform for second phase attack (Check, again Leinster have scored the most tries out of any team this year, no doubt due to second phase play) - And theres also the tag of a special player - i.e. a BOD, Carter etc. who can win a game single handedly, which i stated before in my previous comment.
    Admittedly Carter is a shadow of his 2005 Lions tour self but he's still easily one of the best in the world and leagues ahead of Sexton. Did you see him against the Boks today? Yes his goal-kicking was poor but his line management, communication and general calm nature in the face of the charging Bok forwards (particularly in the second half with Johnson and Kankowski coming on) was brilliant, his adaptability at 12 when Slade came on is also a point in his favour. Seriously, there's a reason why the ABs go to pot without Carter and McCaw.

    There is no doubt that Sexton is a competent fly-half (easily the leader for 2013 Lions side for the moment) but aside from his goal-kicking he really isn't up there with the best in the world. Hell, the majority of back-up fly-halves for the Tri-Nations sides (okay, maybe not the Boks) are as good if not better than him.
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    Okay, I'm an Ireland fan, but best Fly Half in the world? olol.
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    (Original post by nacho_libre)
    Admittedly Carter is a shadow of his 2005 Lions tour self but he's still easily one of the best in the world and leagues ahead of Sexton. Did you see him against the Boks today? Yes his goal-kicking was poor but his line management, communication and general calm nature in the face of the charging Bok forwards (particularly in the second half with Johnson and Kankowski coming on) was brilliant, his adaptability at 12 when Slade came on is also a point in his favour. Seriously, there's a reason why the ABs go to pot without Carter and McCaw.

    There is no doubt that Sexton is a competent fly-half (easily the leader for 2013 Lions side for the moment) but aside from his goal-kicking he really isn't up there with the best in the world. Hell, the majority of back-up fly-halves for the Tri-Nations sides (okay, maybe not the Boks) are as good if not better than him.
    Sexton is essentially carter in my book. On top form, Carter is better than Sexton. Then again Sextons only been on the block for 2 whole seasons now. He only got a handful of games before that.

    Sextons communication and efficiency in moving a backline is second to none. The magic sexton produces in the Leinster and irish backline is spectacular. The Irish and Leinster backline is great as a unit. But one on one vs the current all black backline and it doesnt match up evenly at all in terms of skill. Perhaps BOD even in his old age might make it, possibly Bowe when he's on form. Sexton doesnt have the luxurys like Carter where he can just fling out the ball knowing the offloading of Nonu, SBW, Jane etc. will continue the movement. Sexton needs to exploit any potential holes with effective communication.

    Sexton and Carter are two of a kind. Coopers the other kind. Everybody else trails in their wake at the moment. I don't rate any other fly halfs currently. Flood as looking good at the start of the season, and Michalak is starting to recapture form. Apart from that, im not rating too many others.
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    Okay, I'm an Ireland fan, but best Fly Half in the world? olol.
    Yep, but its just my opinion. Ive watched rugby straight for the past 9 years now, both hemispheres. If you doubt what i've stated i say check the Heineken cup campaign for Leinster and watch how Sexton essentially won in by himself at times.

    Carter looks good after today, then again he had a superb backline at his disposal, against a second/third string Bok team. Playing in New Zealand. Thats not to rubbish him, he's arguably the best fly half of all time, however welsh fans will have things to say about that. Cooper is a different pedigree altogether and ive said my opinion on him earlier up.

    A test of a great player is form, and Sextons form reads from his last few games winning a Heineken Cup final almost by himself.
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    (Original post by TheDubs)
    Yep, but its just my opinion. Ive watched rugby straight for the past 9 years now, both hemispheres. If you doubt what i've stated i say check the Heineken cup campaign for Leinster and watch how Sexton essentially won in by himself at times.

    Carter looks good after today, then again he had a superb backline at his disposal, against a second/third string Bok team. Playing in New Zealand. Thats not to rubbish him, he's arguably the best fly half of all time, however welsh fans will have things to say about that. Cooper is a different pedigree altogether and ive said my opinion on him earlier up.

    A test of a great player is form, and Sextons form reads from his last few games winning a Heineken Cup final almost by himself.
    COMPLETELY disagree. What you mentioned about Carter having a super backline is pretty much what happened with Leinster. SExton had the people around him to make their gameplan work. The looping moves they do work only because the holding centre runs the right line and the players outside hold their width and run a hard angle after Sexton receives the ball again.

    What I would say is that Sexton has become more and more a pressure kicker, which is fantastic. Although a great pressure kicker does not best fly half in the world make.

    Sexton's defence isn't all that either fyi.

    I'm not dissing your opinion, nor questioning your rugby watching experience (as I have watched rugby permanently and played fly half for a very similar length of time to you).

    Ignoring the last couple of games, the best fly half in the world on his day has to be Matt Giteau imo. Trinh-Duc on a good day, also.
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    COMPLETELY disagree. What you mentioned about Carter having a super backline is pretty much what happened with Leinster. SExton had the people around him to make their gameplan work. The looping moves they do work only because the holding centre runs the right line and the players outside hold their width and run a hard angle after Sexton receives the ball again.

    What I would say is that Sexton has become more and more a pressure kicker, which is fantastic. Although a great pressure kicker does not best fly half in the world make.

    Sexton's defence isn't all that either fyi.

    I'm not dissing your opinion, nor questioning your rugby watching experience (as I have watched rugby permanently and played fly half for a very similar length of time to you).

    Ignoring the last couple of games, the best fly half in the world on his day has to be Matt Giteau imo. Trinh-Duc on a good day, also.

    Guildford, Dagg, Maitland, Fruen > D'arcy, Horgan, Fitz, Nacewa. Nacewa can hold his own however, but the other three on current form. Not a chance.

    Agree with ya about Giteau, used to be my favourite player but ever since that loss to Scotland in 2009 he hasnt seemed the same. It isnt just the kicking, but i think that was the cog that lead to his lack of confidence which seems to have spread to his whole game. Used to love his moments of magic. Bit like Cooper in ways but different still if that makes sense.

    True on the wrap around thing, its partially BOD's creation as well. However that isnt he only facet to Sextons attacking game. One of his best trademarks is the way he holds the ball if you ever notice it. He holds it really low down moving it from side to side just to boggle the minds of the defenders. You can't tell whether he's going to chip it through, do an up and under, pass it or even run at you. I ve only ever seen one other person do that and it was in a game a few years back when i started college. He had our whole team at 6's and 7's not knowing what he was doing. Seemed like a really promising player, really wish i got to know his name.
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    This whole point about Carter only being good when around a quality back line is ridiculous, the man is pure talent through and through. He's getting on a bit but he will definitely remain in the top 3 for a year or two. Also to reply to an earlier point, "off form"? The guy helped the Saders to another S15 final, just narrowly lost on the day. Hardly call that off form?

    New talking point - anyone see Pat Lambie today? Obviously very little chance to attack thanks to the atrocious pack playing ahead of him but he coped tremendously well in defence (soaked up huge hits from Nonu, Smith and Carter). Behind a solid pack I think he is one of SA's leading young talents and could be a world-class 10 in a few seasons time. Opinions?
 
 
 
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