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BNP. good or bad ? watch

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  • View Poll Results: what do you think of the BNP?
    good - positive role models for everyone
    14
    8.00%
    ok, but could be better
    18
    10.29%
    bad - wannabee nazis with ****** for leader
    143
    81.71%

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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    Well they are, except for the one location (London), and even there the different "rule" applies to everyone equally.

    Besides, the BNP are quick to tell us they are not allowed to protest etc, but think of Leeds, during the Griffin trial, 150 people(?) all with their BNP banners and placards etc.

    It was allowed, no problems.

    The rules are there, we may or may not agree with them, but they apply to everyone, and are enforced according to guidelines and procedures.
    except,Just as we have noted, not in London. Although, even then, there are probably parts of London where the normal rules do apply - I doubt the BNP would be allowed to rally in Brick Lane - so it's probably just the center which seems to be a bit of free-for-all. Still, however small the area in question, it's an important niggle. When taken in isolation, such inconsistencies seem petty, small and stupid. However, these niggles are the kind of things that, over time, could increase the tension and begin to push people over the edge. That 0.7 may seem like an absolutley minute percentage at the moment, but the problem i see developing is that British politics has no middle ground. Although we have a 3 party system, none of them question whether Britian's approach to multiculturalism is the best way to go. Especially since Cameron is turning the Conservative party into Labour mk II. Consequently, anyone who disagrees with them on this issue is forced to either put up with it or vote BNP. But then, the BNP's answer to the question of multiculturalism comes pre-loaded with a load of nasty crap the average voter probably doesn't want (sorry, i forget...all of that anti-semitic crap and the BNP's friendship with a certain Colnol Gaddaffi is all in the past, eh BNP supporters :rolleyes:). Still, if the voters are pushed hard enough, and the government still insist that everything is fine and that there are no cultural divisions in Britain, i can see many voters crossing the line and that 0.7 percent growing considerably.
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    That should worry you.

    It's an obvious attempt to stop people voting for you, and other minor parties, by ramping up your popularity, and scaring them off making a protest vote (and I'm sure Mrs Hodge is hoping into Labour hands), as is common in such elections.

    You do realise that?

    It's not a statement of facts, it's a scare story playing the race card.
    :eek: good point! It will make more Labour voters go out and actually vote!

    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    Interesting, so your position is almost identical to 1974?

    (ok, slightly above)

    EDIT: Interesting point, at the nadir, 1983, wasn't Griffin in charge then too?
    Griffin took control of the BNP in 1999. But in 1983 Webster left the NF.
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    (Original post by Amon.)
    :eek: good point! It will make more Labour voters go out and actually vote!
    That's the plan.

    If you look at the last round of council votes/euro elections, the biggest losers were Labour, while the small parties, BNP/UKIP, etc. picked up support, if they can scare some of the protest voters into supporting Labour then...

    Labours priority at this election will be to remain vairly stable, and see the Conservatives make no gains, to undermine the new leader, Cameron.

    If the Conservatives make gains people will begin to have faith in the Tories, and that will boost them, and undermine Labour (remember they are the least popular government since year dot) they can't afford an opposition.


    Griffin took control of the BNP in 1999. But in 1983 Webster left the NF.
    Didn't Griffin run the NF after Webster/Tyndall, until the mid 80's?

    His "Gadaffi years"
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    That's the plan.

    If you look at the last round of council votes/euro elections, the biggest losers were Labour, while the small parties, BNP/UKIP, etc. picked up support, if they can scare some of the protest voters into supporting Labour then...

    Labours priority at this election will be to remain vairly stable, and see the Conservatives make no gains, to undermine the new leader, Cameron.

    If the Conservatives make gains people will begin to have faith in the Tories, and that will boost them, and undermine Labour (remember they are the least popular government since year dot) they can't afford an opposition.
    sneaky tactics! :mad:

    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    Didn't Griffin run the NF after Webster/Tyndall, until the mid 80's?

    His "Gadaffi years"
    Griffin was national organizer in 1978 but gave that up in 1983.
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    (Original post by Amon.)
    :eek: good point! It will make more Labour voters go out and actually vote!
    That's why I keep saying that if you didn't exist Labour would invent you.

    You, and every BNP member out there knows you are not on the verge of becoming a mainstream credible force, not right now, some of you honestly believe never, some of you believe in the future, but none of you believe now, so you know this story is bullpop, but to many people the fear is enough to turn them out to vote, or to regain protest votes.

    Labour are probably going to pick up more votes by your existance, than you are.

    Look when they mention you, it's whenever they need to scare the public into bouncing through an unpleasant piece of legislation or something, it's "Oooo you better do what we say or the BNP will get you"

    You've become their bogeyman that they drag out when they need a scare tactic.

    Don't you remember the BNP are coming stories before the general election?

    Estimates of up to 1 million votes, you got a little under 200,000

    At the Euros before that, yes you did well, but the scare stories said you'd pick up an MEP or two, but you got none.

    If you didn't exist...
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    that is a very good point.....:hmmmm:
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    That should worry you.

    It's an obvious attempt to stop people voting for you, and other minor parties, by ramping up your popularity, and scaring them off making a protest vote (and I'm sure Mrs Hodge is hoping into Labour hands), as is common in such elections.

    You do realise that?

    It's not a statement of facts, it's a scare story playing the race card.



    Interesting, so your position is almost identical to 1974?

    (ok, slightly above)

    EDIT: Interesting point, at the nadir, 1983, wasn't Griffin in charge then too?
    Interesting, so your position is almost identical to 1974?

    (ok, slightly above)
    No, in 1974 the NF only stood 34 candidates, in 2005 the BNP stood 120, so we have a slighty higher votes-per-candidate but over a much wider area. If the BNP only stood in it's 34 best wards in 2005 it would show us much higer on the chart.
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    (Original post by Amon.)
    that is a very good point.....:hmmmm:
    That's politics, and love them or hate them, that's what these guys are good at.

    They dance rings around the portly frame of Griffin.

    Here's another one for you.

    Nick Griffins trial.

    How often do you hear BNP members bemoaning the state conspiracy to frame Nick Griffin?

    The BNP bang on about it almost endlessly, but let's be real here.

    The Government didn't make Griffin make that speech, that night, in that pub.

    The government didn't make that reporter film Griffin making that speech, that night, in that pub.

    The government didn't make the CPS prosecute Griffin, because of that film, of film Griffin making that speech, that night, in that pub.

    No conspiracy.

    But whilst the BNP are bemoaning their ill fate, and prattling on about a conspiracy that appears ludicrous to the average man, they are missing the big story.

    Labour tables their religious tolerance legislation to appear in the house, for debate and voting, at the time of the court case of Griffin making that speech, that night, in that pub.

    There's your story, Labour were being naughty, they used you to try and bounce through a peice of unpopular legislation (even Mr Bean was against it!) but the BNP missed it completely.

    They have you watching their right hand, while they jab you with their left.
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    (Original post by happybob)
    No, in 1974 the NF only stood 34 candidates, in 2005 the BNP stood 120, so we have a slighty higher votes-per-candidate but over a much wider area. If the BNP only stood in it's 34 best wards in 2005 it would show us much higer on the chart.
    And if my aunt had a penis she'd be my uncle.

    How do you know what the NF would or would not have got if they had stood in other wards?

    You don't.

    All we have are the facts.

    The facts say you are marginally better than you were 32 years ago.

    You know we could play the what if game the other way, in 1974 in Deptford the NF got 44%, so what if they had stood in more wards, possibly they could have been way better than you are now, as you have never got near 44%! :eek:

    See?

    It's a silly game.
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    I'd say Labour's contribution to the 'success' of the BNP has been very small tbh, theres hundreds of factors to take into account.

    I personally pin their very slight growth to the increase in the size of Government and thus the 'blame culture' that we heard Michael Howard speak of so much in the last election. Some of the working class are starting to blame 'immigrants' for their misfortunes, if you ask me the working class have been creating their own bogeymen for decades... they always have someone else to blame, and they'll always be easily swayed by someone like Nick Griffin and his frightening predictions of the future. It just so happens that immigrants are the easiest target atm, now that the unions are so weak and they can't keep interrogating the upper classes.

    I would also say the huge emphasis on Political Correctness has handed them a few more votes, perhaps as protest votes.

    Oh and their court cases have probably got them some extra votes aswell, the amount of media coverage their court cases get is unbelievable.
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    The bogeyman is certainly an element that people will use to their advantage, but can the support of small parties really be judged by the number of votes in the same way as can the main parties? With the main parties, its simple. If you support them, you vote for them.Although there are areas where you choice will probably have only a small chance of winning, on the whole there's a good chance they'll grab a chunk of power.

    With small parties, on the otherhand, there's only a very small chance of them grabbing any kind of overal share of power. To vote for them is, essentially, to throw your vote away, and this is where the problem lies. Although only the hardcore will vote for them in a general election at the moment, this does not say that many more don't have at least a small degree of sympathy for their policies. This can be observed in the fact that people were willing to vote for them in the Euro election, but simply weren't prepared to waste their vote in the general election.

    I don't think they should be treated so lightly. In all honesty i think to judging their support by the percentage they recieved in the general election may be a tad bit complacent.
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    (Original post by Andronicus Comnenus)
    this does not say that many more don't have at least a small degree of sympathy for their policies. This can be observed in the fact that people were willing to vote for them in the Euro election, but simply weren't prepared to waste their vote in the general election.
    I think way more people have sympathy for some of their positions than vote for them, by a million miles, but I don't see them as being capable of attracting those people to vote without radical changes.
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    (Original post by happybob)
    No, in 1974 the NF only stood 34 candidates, in 2005 the BNP stood 120, so we have a slighty higher votes-per-candidate but over a much wider area.
    BTW NF stood 90 candidates in the October election, so 3/4 of what you did.
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    (Original post by Paul Bedford)
    I think way more people have sympathy for some of their positions than vote for them, by a million miles, but I don't see them as being capable of attracting those people to vote without radical changes.
    I don't see it happening under Griffin, but if he isn't replaced by an obvious nutjob when he stands down, the Lib Dems continue to destroy any credability they've gained and Labour and the Tories continue their conspiracy to be the same party, its possible that it could happen in the future.

    I think this government and the next government should look at, and start addressing, the underlying reasons for the increase in BNP sympathies.
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    (Original post by Andronicus Comnenus)
    I don't see it happening under Griffin, but if he isn't replaced by an obvious nutjob when he stands down, the Lib Dems continue to destroy any credability they've gained and Labour and the Tories continue their conspiracy to be the same party, its possible that it could happen in the future.
    It's certainly possible then, I think the sympathies of people are much stronger than votes indicate, it's the BNP keeping the people from voting, not a rising resentment of immigration etc.

    I think this government and the next government should look at, and start addressing, the underlying reasons for the increase in BNP sympathies.
    I think it's something they need to think about.

    I don't know if you've seen Howards what if thread, (what if you were a BNP co-ordinator, how would you improve the parties fortunes?) but I would be willing to wager a small bet that if ten people from this site got together and turned that what if into a real excersise, formed a party, registered it, ran with it, until the next election and stood one candidate in one seat of their targetting, they could, within the space of those 3 short years, between now and that election, achieve enough to gain 1,500 votes (equivelant to the BNP average) on a similar sort of ticket.

    I think, in all honesty, with a safe pair of hands, and no history, such a ticket could attract more votes in that short a period of time, as the BNP has amassed in 32 years (per candidate ratio), and if they were to continue they could outstrip the BNP in terms of growth.
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    BTW there is a video that has just been put up on channel 4
    http://www.channel4.com/news/special...ge.jsp?id=2187
    it's about the 8 out of 10 voter thing(election tactic by labour:rolleyes: )
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    'Tempted' to vote BNP. I just love the hook word and the timing: 'Temptation'. This Easter the BNP is quite literally the anti-christ, says racially unbiased daughter of ethnic immigrants, NewOldNew Labour employment minister Margaret Hodge.
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    Never believe Official statistics...never shows a complete image....
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    (Original post by Flux)
    I notice the Labout councillor couldn't resist using the words "Nazism" and "fascism" despite the BNP being neither.
    When you have members doing straight arm roman salutes in the scottish highlands (or where ever it was they were filmed recently) it's pretty much to be expected.

    I bet if any other party had members doing the same thing they'd all get tarred with the same brush too.

    I think it's regretable for those that don't subscribe to that sort of ideology, but is it going to change until the party does?
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    (Original post by Flux)
    So by a similar logic Islam is a religion of terrorism?
    No, by a similar logic Islam will be portrayed by some as a religion of terrorism, which it frequently is, and blacks portrayed as muggers, BNP members Nazis, Conservatives as sleazy, football supporters as hooligans, etc, etc.

    It's the way of the world.

    Whilst you have a small residue of people within any group, or organisation, that behave in a certain manner there will be people that portray the whole group, or organisation in such a light.

    This is why it's important to purge yourself of negative members within your group/organisation, or bring them to book for their 'crimes', rather than defending them.
 
 
 
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