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what would happen if people had a white or caucasian society at a university watch

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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Not just a characteristic though is it Lawz? Its everything. As you just said, its a "white culture, built around white cultures". So why the need for a white society? We are dominated by the white society, as you have just made VERY plain.
    I've already answered this - over and over and over again. Either deal with my points or dont - but please dont just continue asking the question.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    No, i'm not putting words into your mouth. I'm saying i thinkhaving a white society at Norwich would be silly. As would a black society in a small town nigerian university. And do you agree or disagree with that?
    You said I was implying that "there should be white societies all over the country"

    I said no such thing. Stop putting those words into my mouth.

    Do I agree? No. Not really, in the same way I dont think that having a Christian society is a big deal, or having something to celebrate "Nigerian history" in Nigeria would be silly... so what if you are hite, in a white society - there are certainly aspects of your culture that you dnt know about, arent exposed to enough, or at the very least would like to expose others to.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)

    Why not have a "jerk chicken and beef society" why not have a "RNB" society, why not have an "African history society"? Why not subdivide every aspect of "black culture" into smaller tidbits?

    There is nothing wrong with grouping together these things under the label "black", but there is when it is white?

    What makes you think "black" is not an exclusive word? Oh right , you seem to think it has some special meaning in this case outside of racial connotations.



    Rock has black influence to be sure. However the notion that deicide are inspired by black artists is a very tenuous link indeed.
    I'm not debating that with you. I think the use of the word black is weird too. But it is easier to lump in a lot of these things together for a "black" society, because blacks are a minority. There would be so tiny a proportion of people able to join a "jerk chicken abd beef" society, it would be pointless. Just putting basic things together and saying they're from black culture is just how it is, because of the way people use black, and because blacks in general are minorities.

    Do i have to say what i think about the meanings of "black" and "white" in mainstream society are AGAIN? i think white is more specialised than black, because black tends to be used to cover a wider range of meanings when used- encompassing culture and skin colour white tends to describe skin colour only, when talking about white people. Whether this is right or wrong, as i say, isn't relly the point right now. But its still commonly accepted.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    And by the same principle I do not understand how living in an area where there is a large percentage of ethnic minorities makes you unable to read Shakespeare or listen to rock music? If you do not think day-to-day life and walking your local streets are a faucet of cultural experience then how does living among ethnic minorities change your cultural experience? Mainstream society is still British culture- access to media, education, literature - all based around white values. The only thing changed by living in an area with more ethnic minorities is that in itself. There won't be as many white people.

    I feel you are misinterpreting the actual 'black' socieities in question. They don't celebrate every variety of international 'black' culture. They are clearly there to cater to that specific culture unique to western blacks or to cater to a more specific national culture. Therefore the comparison to a 'white' society celebrating a variety of different white cultures is not quite right.

    Yep. I said this a while back too. The socieites labelled "black" usually cater to westernised blacks who are here, or have lived here a long time.
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    (Original post by Laika)
    And by the same principle I do not understand how living in an area where there is a large percentage of ethnic minorities makes you unable to read Shakespeare or listen to rock music?
    And how does living in a white area mean you cant enjoy black culture?

    (Original post by Laika)
    If you do not think day-to-day life and walking your local streets are a faucet of cultural experience then how does living among ethnic minorities change your cultural experience?
    It doesnt. The requrirement that you be in a minority to form a society was yours; not mine.

    (Original post by Laika)
    Mainstream society is still British culture- access to media, education, literature - all based around white values. The only thing changed by living in an area with more ethnic minorities is that in itself. There won't be as many white people.
    So? Again - as I have said, would an American society at a US society be problemtic? Would a "french culture society" in France be "silly"? I hardly think so. Perhaps you think it redundant, but I might disagree entirely.

    (Original post by Laika)
    I feel you are misinterpreting the actual 'black' socieities in question. They don't celebrate every variety of international 'black' culture. They are clearly there to cater to that specific culture unique to western blacks or to cater to a more specific national culture. Therefore the comparison to a 'white' society celebrating a variety of different white cultures is not quite right.
    a) That is not exclusively the case
    b) So you would be ok with a "White Society" that limited itself to certain facets of white culure?
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Yep. I said this a while back too. The socieites labelled "black" usually cater to westernised blacks who are here, or have lived here a long time.
    yup
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    And how does living in a white area mean you cant enjoy black culture?



    It doesnt. The requrirement that you be in a minority to form a society was yours; not mine.



    So? Again - as I have said, would an American society at a US society be problemtic? Would a "french culture society" in France be "silly"? I hardly think so. Perhaps you think it redundant, but I might disagree entirely.



    a) That is not exclusively the case
    b) So you would be ok with a "White Society" that limited itself to certain facets of white culure?
    We've both stated that we would be okay with a "British culture" scoiety in Britain.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    I'm not debating that with you. I think the use of the word black is weird too. But it is easier to lump in a lot of these things together for a "black" society, because blacks are a minority.
    Again that makes no sense whatsoever. The fact that they are a minority in no way means they are more homogenous.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    There would be so tiny a proportion of people able to join a "jerk chicken abd beef" society, it would be pointless. Just putting basic things together and saying they're from black culture is just how it is, because of the way people use black, and because blacks in general are minorities.
    Then they are inexact and imprecise. Regardless that is the way SOME use it. not all.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Do i have to say what i think about the meanings of "black" and "white" in mainstream society are AGAIN?

    Oh god please - dont. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    We've both stated that we would be okay with a "British culture" scoiety in Britain.
    But I thought that there was no point in starting a society if you are surrounded by a majority of people who share that characteristic?

    Why is it ok to have British Society in Britain, but not a White society in a predominantly white country?

    That is entirely inconsistent.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    But I thought that there was no point in starting a society if you are surrounded by a majority of people who share that characteristic?

    Why is it ok to have British Society in Britain, but not a White society in a predominantly white country?

    That is entirely inconsistent.
    Because race is irrelevant in terms of white British culture, not so with black culture. Now I remember how we ended up where we are. This debate is so circular surely it's far past its sell by date by now?
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    I go to a london university with many different races

    universitys in london or bradford or luton sometimes have a majority of students who are non white.

    I believe lakia your argument assumes theirs nothing to be proud of if your right, yet black and asian societys
    do have a culture to celebrate.

    I believe everyone has a identity to be proud of while embracing other cultures.

    why shouldnt a white british society exist then at university
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    (Original post by Laika)
    Because race is irrelevant in terms of white British culture, not so with black culture.
    Care to expand on that - I can't bgin to see how that is true.

    Your argument against a white society is that this country is a white one - that the majority ARE white.

    However, you would be ok with a "Christian socitiey" in a country that is predominantly christian?

    That the term used is a racial one is neither here nor there in your argument. You point out that because whites are a majority then there is no need to have a society - that it would be pointless. But why doesnt that apply to the above example? Or to a "French culture society" in France?
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    exactly.

    whats wrong with celebrating white culutre just as people celebrate black and asian culture..

    I embrace all cultures, but british people of white origin shouldnt be ashamed of their identity or their culture, but they are made to feel that way because of far right associations which is simpley unfair.
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    (Original post by Cluedo89)
    exactly.

    whats wrong with celebrating white culutre just as people celebrate black and asian culture..
    The answers I have got seem to be a variety or combintion of the following:

    1. White culture is too broad
    2. Black culture doesnt really mean clack culture, it means "Westernised british black culture"
    3. Whites are not a minority - therefore there is no purpose for such a society.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Care to expand on that - I can't bgin to see how that is true.

    Your argument against a white society is that this country is a white one - that the majority ARE white.

    However, you would be ok with a "Christian socitiey" in a country that is predominantly christian?

    That the term used is a racial one is neither here nor there in your argument. You point out that because whites are a majority then there is no need to have a society - that it would be pointless. But why doesnt that apply to the above example? Or to a "French culture society" in France?
    What do you mean care to expand? You said "please dont:rolleyes: " when i asked whether you wanted the explanation again. You've shirked it so often that we started from the beginning, and it went circular. It is true because of the wya black is used, and the way white is used. Black denotes skin colour AND CULTURE. White denotes just skin colour. That is how this society, and lots of societies actually, use those terms.

    A christian society is okay because it is a very specific group- it literally celebrates Christianity. Now yes, we are a "Christian" country, by rote. But how many people practice Christianity? Not many at all in comparison to the population size. How many STUDENTS practice Christianity? I reckon once you exclude the old biddies who were brught up to be very religious, you really don't have many true Christians left. I would be classed as Christian. The last time i went to church was for a funeral. Aside from events that happen to happen in churches- weddings, funerals, christenings, i don't ever go. And so having a Christian society i fine at university. Because ot isn't as wide-spread as you make it out to be. Noone could ever tell me, ever, that this country is a predominant PRACTISING Christian country, and therefore, a group for PRACTISING Christians at uni- and i truly think only PRACTISING christians would join one- is fine, and can't be compared to the need for a white society.
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    (Original post by Cluedo89)
    exactly.

    whats wrong with celebrating white culutre just as people celebrate black and asian culture..

    I embrace all cultures, but british people of white origin shouldnt be ashamed of their identity or their culture, but they are made to feel that way because of far right associations which is simpley unfair.
    Cluedo, have you read any of the posts yet? Care to give a few examples of this "british people of white origin" culture, please? People aren't ashamed of their identities, and if they are, its their own fault, not societies. I have always been taught to be very proud of who i am, and what i am made of. If soemone is ashamed of themselves, they've either done something to be ashamed of, or they have a complex that can't really be attributed to society. Unless they're very weak people. Noone could EVER make me feel ashamed of myself and what i am. Though many have tried.
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    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    What do you mean care to expand? You said "please dont:rolleyes: "
    I didn't ask YOU to expand on anything.

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    Black denotes skin colour AND CULTURE. White denotes just skin colour.
    I disagree. Ask a BNP supporter if they think there is a WHITE CULTURE...

    (Original post by cottonmouth)
    A christian society is okay because it is a very specific group- it literally celebrates Christianity. Now yes, we are a "Christian" country, by rote. But how many people practice Christianity?Not many at all in comparison to the population size. How many STUDENTS practice Christianity? I reckon once you exclude the old biddies who were brught up to be very religious, you really don't have many true Christians left. I would be classed as Christian. The last time i went to church was for a funeral. Aside from events that happen to happen in churches- weddings, funerals, christenings, i don't ever go. And so having a Christian society i fine at university. Because ot isn't as wide-spread as you make it out to be. Noone could ever tell me, ever, that this country is a predominant PRACTISING Christian country, and therefore, a group for PRACTISING Christians at uni- and i truly think only PRACTISING christians would join one- is fine, and can't be compared to the need for a white society.
    So an Islamic society in a Pakistani University then? A 'French culture" society in France?
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    well heres a few examples brunel, winston churchill,shakespeare,dickens, oliver cromwell for starters.

    I'm completly proud of who I am and I'm proud we have a society that embraces all cultures and races but why should that be exclusive to certain groups.

    and on the subject of white culture being to broad, well isnt black culture broad and asian cultures broad as well people arrived from uganda as well as south asia for example, its all complex.

    personally I am against societys at university that at least give that impression to people looking in from the outside of being exclusive.
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    (Original post by Cluedo89)
    and on the subject of white culture being to broad, well isnt black culture broad and asian cultures broad as well people arrived from uganda as well as south asia for example, its all complex.
    Apparently not. Apparently black means something much more specific. Despite the fact that some of them include people of asian origin and people from Guyana to the Eastern Horn of Africa :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    I didn't ask YOU to expand on anything.



    I disagree. Ask a BNP supporter if they think there is a WHITE CULTURE...



    So an Islamic society in a Pakistani University then? A 'French culture" society in France?
    You are patheitc. Me and Laika were making the same point about the use of the words "white" and "black". You just won't respond directly to it, which is very very telling. Answer it, just answer it.

    Yes, some people do believe there is a white culture. And your point? I stated plainly that this society, and many others, USE THE TERMS in those ways. I didn't say that there isn't a white culture, or that people don't believe there is one. So you disagree with something i didnt say, so far.

    Do you disagree with my assertions about how the words" white" and "black" are used by society in general? Not the BNP, who are a fringe of society, and don't represent the wider societies wishes.


    An Islamic society in a pakistani university, if there was an overwhelming number of practising Muslims, would be stupid, in my opinion. No need for it. They would already be immersed in their religion, at uni, and out of it. Christians here are not.

    A french culture society in France would be fine. As would a British culture society her. Said it again.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Apparently not. Apparently black means something much more specific. Despite the fact that some of them include people of asian origin and people from Guyana to the Eastern Horn of Africa :rolleyes:
    Lawz, stop being silly. I'm sure you don't want yet another explanation of what we meant by black culture- black culture in Britain is what is centred on in those societies- as Laika, who is at uni, and so is as qualified to comment as you are, even if i'm not- and if it gets more specific- it branches out. In general. Not always, as you have pointed out. But then, they are minorities in a dominantly white country. But lets NOT be circular.
 
 
 
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