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Doctor Who - Discussion Thread III (no untagged future spoilers) Watch

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    (Original post by boba)
    probably ye she should of, she knew she should of. But no sympathy for a child expected to sacrifice herself is kinda heartless
    I thought she was being a bit selfish tbh, and she could've saved Clara's leaf

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    I liked that leaf .
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    (Original post by Arkay)
    I thought she was being a bit selfish tbh, and she could've saved Clara's leaf

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    I liked that leaf .
    well I liked the little girls cool costume and I wouldn't want it to be ruined by her death. leaves are stupid
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    (Original post by rainbow drops)
    ^^ Yeah, I stopped watching fairly early in the Amy/Rory era but I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt tonight, and all this episode did was remind me of why I gave up on DH in the first place. That was so bad in so many ways.
    From one of the 'die hard fans', I can honestly say you chose the wrong night to give it the benefit of the doubt. This was by all accounts the worst episode of the series thus far, but equally there were worse episodes in the RTD era (Ecclestone/Tennant), which I assume is the stuff you liked. It doesn't help that you've come to the new companion's storyline about 3 episodes too late so, without wanting to sound condescending, that aspect of the plot is probably lost on you.

    However.

    If you haven't already, go back to last week's episode and give that a go - it's the most RTD-ish episode for a while. Similarly, next week's episode seems to use the classic format of 'base-under-siege' and so that would be a good option to watch. But if you are going to do that, you may want to go back to 'Asylum of the Daleks' from the first half of the current run to see the introduction (of sorts) of the current companion. It depends on your opinion on Rory and Amy, but they aren't really key to that episode's plot. Then watch the Christmas special 'The Snowmen' to continue with the new companion - for right now, watching the other 4 eps from Series 7 Part 1 aren't really necessary.

    So in conclusion:

    -Your opinion on this episode is fair enough
    -It's unlucky for you you chose this episode to jump back in
    -If you can, watch 'Asylum'>'Snowmen'>'The Bells of Saint John'
    -Try and get back in to it
    -I hope you can enjoy them. I'm sure you want to like it - there's nothing wrong with having something else in your life to enjoy.
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    (Original post by Care-Free)
    Maybe im being really dense here but
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    wasn't Oswin in asylum of the darleks? is that what the Dr's realised?
    You must have missed the Christmas episode. Oswin also featured in that, but as the doctor never saw her face in asylum wasn't aware it was the same person, the Doctor sort of fell in love with her but she ended up dying, at this point the Doctor found out who she was so he started wondering how she could have died twice, that's why he's acting so stalkerish with Oswin's life because he's found a third reincarnation of her, and he wants to find out who or what keeps reincarnating her, and how it's happening. Obviously she has no memory of her past lives so the Doctor is keeping it quiet.
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    (Original post by j1mthefish)
    x
    My problems with the Matt Smith era aren't really to do with individual episodes being bad; they're bigger issues that tend to negatively affect every single episode. The writing and characterisation are the most glaring problems.

    I think the dialogue is forced and awkward (I'm talking about all the ridiculously irritating in-jokes, banter and ~super quirky witty cutesy phrases~) and that's consistent in every single episode. It's so prevalent that it damages my perceptions of the characters. I could never bring myself to care about Rory and Amy because their dialogue was so cartoonish and convoluted that it made them seem less 'real' compared to more believable companions like Rose and Martha. River is the most extreme example of this; she's like a walking, talking, cliched phrasebook. It's SO irritating to watch. I know Doctor Who is fantastical as a concept but it definitely doesn't mean that the characters' personalities have to be, and the show suffers massively as a result, in my opinion.

    I also really dislike the way in which Moffat writes women, which tends to be a very common complaint that reviewers etc have about this era of the show. I was hoping he would change his predictable writing up a bit and make Clara less of a quirky, excitable, flirtsy, mysterious Doctor groupie, but she seems exactly like Amy so far in that respect, which is really disappointing. Female companions do not have to be that way. People loved Donna so much precisely because she wasn't, IMO. I know River isn't a companion, but she's written terribly, and is easily the most irritating character I've ever seen on a TV show.

    So yeah, if my issues were more to do with plot, I'd probably carry on watching, because it's always been the case that some Doctor Who storylines/monsters/etc are weaker than others. I think the plots have definitely been weaker of late, but it's the general tone that's my biggest issue, and because it's so present in every single episode, I don't like the show any more. I've given it so many chances, but I simply don't like it. I feel pretty sad and frustrated about it because I used to love it, but it's obvious that Moffat won't change his direction any time soon, so never mind!

    Thanks for your post you raised some interesting points.
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    (Original post by boba)
    well I liked the little girls cool costume and I wouldn't want it to be ruined by her death. leaves are stupid
    But leaves help to provide us with oxygen...


    (Original post by rainbow drops)
    So yeah, if my issues were more to do with plot, I'd probably carry on watching, because it's always been the case that some Doctor Who storylines/monsters/etc are weaker than others. I think the plots have definitely been weaker of late, but it's the general tone that's my biggest issue, and because it's so present in every single episode, I don't like the show any more. I've given it so many chances, but I simply don't like it. I feel pretty sad and frustrated about it because I used to love it, but it's obvious that Moffat won't change his direction any time soon, so never mind!
    This is exactly how I feel about Moffat's Who. The only thing keeping me watching is that it was a huge part of my childhood, and it would be a shame to stop watching because of bad writing. It's like Moffat thinks he doesn't need to develop any of the characters as long as they have some mysterious, over-arching storyline. I'm still hoping Clara surprises us, and turns out to be different in terms of character (not storyline).
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    (Original post by Arkay)
    But leaves help to provide us with oxygen...




    This is exactly how I feel about Moffat's Who. The only thing keeping me watching is that it was a huge part of my childhood, and it would be a shame to stop watching because of bad writing. It's like Moffat thinks he doesn't need to develop any of the characters as long as they have some mysterious, over-arching storyline. I'm still hoping Clara surprises us, and turns out to be different in terms of character (not storyline).
    only ones that are alive and still attached to plants. really by preserving the leaf instead of letting it decompose and become a fertilizer like leaves are meant to when they fall off she is selfishly depriving the world of potential new living leave that provide oxygen.
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    (Original post by Arkay)
    This is exactly how I feel about Moffat's Who. The only thing keeping me watching is that it was a huge part of my childhood, and it would be a shame to stop watching because of bad writing. It's like Moffat thinks he doesn't need to develop any of the characters as long as they have some mysterious, over-arching storyline. I'm still hoping Clara surprises us, and turns out to be different in terms of character (not storyline).
    Yeah, exactly. I'm also very convinced that he prizes his own ideas of what makes a good character (namely that they should constantly make jokes and be witty, flirty, excitable, mysterious, sexy, etc) and imposes said ideas onto every single character he writes, even if he has to force it to the point that it seems completely unnatural. As you said, it's bad writing. He doesn't seem to compromise on anything for the sake of the show.
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    (Original post by rainbow drops)
    My problems with the Matt Smith era aren't really to do with individual episodes being bad; they're bigger issues that tend to negatively affect every single episode. The writing and characterisation are the most glaring problems.

    I think the dialogue is forced and awkward (I'm talking about all the ridiculously irritating in-jokes, banter and ~super quirky witty cutesy phrases~) and that's consistent in every single episode. It's so prevalent that it damages my perceptions of the characters. I could never bring myself to care about Rory and Amy because their dialogue was so cartoonish and convoluted that it made them seem less 'real' compared to more believable companions like Rose and Martha. River is the most extreme example of this; she's like a walking, talking, cliched phrasebook. It's SO irritating to watch. I know Doctor Who is fantastical as a concept but it definitely doesn't mean that the characters' personalities have to be, and the show suffers massively as a result, in my opinion.

    I also really dislike the way in which Moffat writes women, which tends to be a very common complaint that reviewers etc have about this era of the show. I was hoping he would change his predictable writing up a bit and make Clara less of a quirky, excitable, flirtsy, mysterious Doctor groupie, but she seems exactly like Amy so far in that respect, which is really disappointing. Female companions do not have to be that way. People loved Donna so much precisely because she wasn't, IMO. I know River isn't a companion, but she's written terribly, and is easily the most irritating character I've ever seen on a TV show.

    So yeah, if my issues were more to do with plot, I'd probably carry on watching, because it's always been the case that some Doctor Who storylines/monsters/etc are weaker than others. I think the plots have definitely been weaker of late, but it's the general tone that's my biggest issue, and because it's so present in every single episode, I don't like the show any more. I've given it so many chances, but I simply don't like it. I feel pretty sad and frustrated about it because I used to love it, but it's obvious that Moffat won't change his direction any time soon, so never mind!

    Thanks for your post you raised some interesting points.


    You just summed up there my biggest issue with the last 3 series of Dr.Who. Add in that Matt Smith tries the "zany wacky" Dr, too much. The silly stuff to do with food he plays up is just childish such as the custard fish fingers and even tonight his obsession with glowing fruit.
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    Also just to add there seems to be an obsession under Moffet of bleeding most of the budget on CGI. Personally I think CGI in big budget holywood movies ruins some of the immersion, but DR.Who isnt even ever going to be able to emulate those CGI effects and it tends to look amateurish (take the space bike scene tonight). However Moffet is obsessed with using it and highlighting to the audience how "amazing" it is with clues to us as he spends 30 seconds having the characters gawping at it. Would rather some of that money went on getting great actors to the show such as John Simm (best performance in New Who IMO).
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    (Original post by Dbx125)
    Also just to add there seems to be an obsession under Moffet of bleeding most of the budget on CGI. Personally I think CGI in big budget holywood movies ruins some of the immersion, but DR.Who isnt even ever going to be able to emulate those CGI effects and it tends to look amateurish (take the space bike scene tonight). However Moffet is obsessed with using it and highlighting to the audience how "amazing" it is with clues to us as he spends 30 seconds having the characters gawping at it. Would rather some of that money went on getting great actors to the show such as John Simm (best performance in New Who IMO).
    New who has been pretty consistent with the use of CGI and I personally greatly dislike CGI. While CGI can at times look good it quickly becomes dated looking.

    The current series vs previous series of new who have all fallen into this trap of big CGI rather than practical effects which would require a scaling down in some ideas.

    Simply put the new 'The thing' was a CGI mess while I the original is amazing.
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    (Original post by Ape Gone Insane)
    The Doctor casts more spells with his Sonic Screwdriver than Harry Potter ever does throughout 7 books.
    Yeh that scene tonight with him deflecting those 3 guys blasts back was like literally straight out of one of the potter movies.
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    (Original post by Ape Gone Insane)
    The Doctor casts more spells with his Sonic Screwdriver than Harry Potter ever does throughout 7 books.
    Yep this has been a pretty constant issue throughout new who which is why the stupid dead lock seal idea was added.

    I wish the sonic screwdriver would just go back to being a handy get out a jail free card rather than a magic wand.

    I feel the format change has resulted in continued use of the sonic screw driver. Instead of having a standard 1 hour 20 mins to establish a story the 45 mins results in them having to keep the plot going at full speed.
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    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    Agreed, but I don't mind its plethora of uses - I'd expect that from such sophisticated technology, but it's the fact that it's now even used as a weapon that bothers me.



    I actually felt the opposite way; I felt the start was the most 'meaty' part in terms of making the episode meaningful. Lots of character development and 'bonding' going on in there. I thought it was pretty vital for getting me, as the audience, to care about Mary - and to get to know Clara and empathise with her.

    As for the Doctor's "we never walk away" and "unless we have something precious then we run", it was nice to hear that to sort of cement in his revert to the ol' "save the world" Doctor instead of the depressed "I don't do that anymore" forced apathy.



    I liked the speech. :yes:
    I agree with you! I disliked the episode as a whole, but the bits you said, I liked too

    Plus, though the singing thing was a crappy plot, Merry did have a beautiful voice. So there was that I guess.

    All in all, I just keep re-watching RTD's era and wishing what he had, comes back!
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    Well that episode was a great load of ****.

    As I said last week Smith is great at fun and quirky but he is terrible when it comes to expressing any sort of range, especially sadness and anger. His speech at the end really did show up the difference between him and Tennant purely as actors.

    The story was utter *******s, the dialogoue was *******s, the resolution was *******s, it was just complete and utter ****.

    I suppose 'kill everyone with resolution' is now standard for this half season?

    Leaf - Holds the memories/sentimental value of Clara's parents and Clara herself + supposedly the infinite possibilities of their future.
    One single person - exactly the ****ing same
    One Doctor - exactly the ****ing same but with more memories.

    If the planet was full off one stupid leaf then how the hell was it meant to eat 7 worlds, it wouldn't even be able to eat a ****ing maccies.

    Moped, in space, without oxygen :facepalm2:

    Complete and utter crap.
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    (Original post by Mess.)


    Well that episode was a great load of ****.

    As I said last week Smith is great at fun and quirky but he is terrible when it comes to expressing any sort of range, especially sadness and anger. His speech at the end really did show up the difference between him and Tennant purely as actors.

    The story was utter *******s, the dialogoue was *******s, the resolution was *******s, it was just complete and utter ****.

    I suppose 'kill everyone with resolution' is now standard for this half season?

    Leaf - Holds the memories/sentimental value of Clara's parents and Clara herself + supposedly the infinite possibilities of their future.
    One single person - exactly the ****ing same
    One Doctor - exactly the ****ing same but with more memories.

    If the planet was full off one stupid leaf then how the hell was it meant to eat 7 worlds, it wouldn't even be able to eat a ****ing maccies.

    Moped, in space, without oxygen :facepalm2:

    Complete and utter crap.
    Maybe it had a protective bubble like the TARDIS does?
    Remember when The Doctor has opened the TARDIS doors many times before in space?
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    My major bugbear is the fact that the Doctor had to translate everything - what the hell happened to the TARDIS translation matrix? The one that gets inside your head the moment you step inside? And that's without even getting started that they blew up a sun; what the hell is going to happen to the people that live on those 7 planets?
    Stefan Moffat wrote the Empty Child for God's sake, so he definitely CAN write... Jesus, Moffat, get it together. (I know this wasn't his, but he's head writer, it's his lookout)

    I don't mind Oswin (I'm not crazy for her either), but I'd like this version of her to get killed off as well, just to spice things up. Then the Doctor can go back to having someone ordinary as his companion... It always feels better that way

    Gotta love Matt Smith though
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    (Original post by Kings0)
    My major bugbear is the fact that the Doctor had to translate everything - what the hell happened to the TARDIS translation matrix? The one that gets inside your head the moment you step inside? And that's without even getting started that they blew up a sun; what the hell is going to happen to the people that live on those 7 planets?
    Stefan Moffat wrote the Empty Child for God's sake, so he definitely CAN write... Jesus, Moffat, get it together. (I know this wasn't his, but he's head writer, it's his lookout)

    I don't mind Oswin (I'm not crazy for her either), but I'd like this version of her to get killed off as well, just to spice things up. Then the Doctor can go back to having someone ordinary as his companion... It always feels better that way

    Gotta love Matt Smith though
    I thought the exact same thing with the translation. Ridiculous.
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    David Tennant & Russell T. Davies in Doctor Who = Intense, clever episodes

    Matt Smith & Stephen Moffat = Cheesy dialogue and story
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    (Original post by justanotherposter)
    You must have missed the Christmas episode. Oswin also featured in that, but as the doctor never saw her face in asylum wasn't aware it was the same person, the Doctor sort of fell in love with her but she ended up dying, at this point the Doctor found out who she was so he started wondering how she could have died twice, that's why he's acting so stalkerish with Oswin's life because he's found a third reincarnation of her, and he wants to find out who or what keeps reincarnating her, and how it's happening. Obviously she has no memory of her past lives so the Doctor is keeping it quiet.
    Ooh i did miss the christmas one yes...i should go watch it thankyouuu
 
 
 
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