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    (Original post by Gray Wolf)
    What you mean the 1% of abortion cases? You do know laws can be passed for the 7% (that is rape and health problems included) legitimate cases. We don't just do blanket laws you know...

    But the other 93% must be tackled and that is a definite.
    Hmm. So you agree that in some cases abortion is the moral decision?

    But if you truly believe that embryos are human lives, how can you justify that viewpoint? If I told you that killing a random human being would somehow, somewhere, prevent a rape from occurring you wouldn't murder anyone, and rightly so. Because, as terrible as rape is, you couldn't justify using murder to prevent it -- you might, however, consider stealing a chocolate bar from Tesco's if that would somehow prevent it.

    That's because in society's hierarchy of crimes, rape is considered more serious than petty theft but still not quite up there with the murder of an innocent.

    But where does your view fit into this? If we accept the premise that abortion = murder, then how can you justify that exception?

    The only thing I'm able to take away from your statement is 'abortions are sometimes okay, but I know better than a woman whether or not one makes sense in any given situation.'

    Please correct me if you are somehow able to logically reconcile your opposition to abortion with your support of abortion in cases of rape.
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    "If you don't want a baby don't have sex".

    I see this comment aimed at women all the time. However, there are plenty of men who never wish to have children. Do you suggest THEY abstain from sex for the rest of their lives? Or is it only the woman's responsibility to take precautions?

    My partner and I have sex. We use condoms as I can't go on hormonal contraception (I am a sufferer of migraines with aura, and hormonal contraception puts me at risk o having a stroke). We can't afford to bring up a baby and if we had one, and couldn't provide it with the upbringing it would deserve - so if I fell pregnan we would have an abortion. We have discussed it and agreed on this, and we feel it is the most sensible decision.

    Why is bringing a child into a life where it struggles to have enough to wear, can never go on school trips or days out, is always cold and hungry because we cant afford food or heating any more, better than an abortion? I lived a childhood where my parents couldn't afford to provide school trips and days out, decent clothes and food, for me and I would never wish it on my potential future children.

    Having said that, I have come to the conclusion that I never want to have children. Should my partner and I never have sex again?
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    If anything I would encourage even more abortion worldwide... this planet is having a population crisis. 44m aborted unwanted kids he's 44m less mouths to feed.
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    (Original post by Gray Wolf)
    So abortion occurs after fusion, my point still stands. Change conception to moment of abortion, our discussion didn't really change anything...
    It matters because firstly you don't seem to know what you're talking about, and secondly because most pregnancies end in miscarriage anyway.

    Most pregnancies will not become a child
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    what is horrid? may you please be specific? are you describing everything: from the rape, to the abortion, and there after?
    Pretty much, none of it was a walk in the park (by the way, I find your sentence pretty rude. If you think being raped isn't horrid, or having an abortion isn't horrid, clearly you have never experienced either, and so perhaps you should shut up and stop passing judgement on something you clearly don't understand?)

    What was most upsetting was the people who insisted it was MY fault for being promiscuous and "if you have sex you should live with the consequences" without knowing anything about how I had become pregnant. They behaved like I had no idea what an abortion was, like I was being frivolous and silly throwing away a "potential life" without giving any kind of emotional support or showing any empathy towards me in the situation.

    I'm at university, I'm certainly not stupid, and I thought long and hard about what I would do. Women don't go getting abortions at the drop of a hat, it can be an extremely traumatising time and to be demonised by complete strangers who care more about the wellbeing of a bundle of cells than a living breathing moving adult human is foul. There is a special circle in hell for those people. They are malicious, spiteful, cruel and vindictive, they know exactly what they are doing, they are not "speaking for the unborn foetus" they are silencing the women who desperately need and want to end their pregnancies without being physically and verbally bullied through the process.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    the only acceptable sex is between two individuals that accept their responsibility for what to occur there after and accept that sex is to procreate a child (though that may not need to be the end goal). otherwise, if you do not accept this and take an immature stance in which sex is purely for your amusement - then yes. that is abusive and a misuse.

    to keep this on tract.
    the "larger part of the population who have sex for pleasure" does not make abortion okay/moral.
    well, populating an already overpopulated world, ruining 2 peoples lives and giving a baby a bad life is a lot more abusive than getting rid of an almost baby.

    The only two people who are affected when an embryo is aborted are the mother and father. No one else. Do I care if an unborn child that no one has any affection for is aborted, no, not one bit. Do I care when an unwanted child is born into a broken home? No, not really. But it's not my choice and me caring or not should have no impact on the choice the people who are actually impacted make.

    and hey! if you're into the whole god thing, isn't the ultimate goal to die and go hang out in heaven the whole point of life anyway?
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    (Original post by Gray Wolf)
    What you mean the 1% of abortion cases? You do know laws can be passed for the 7% (that is rape and health problems included) legitimate cases. We don't just do blanket laws you know...

    But the other 93% must be tackled and that is a definite.
    1% is not true.. may I add that some women don't admit to being raped? I sure as hell wouldn't.

    And if they make abortion illegal people will abort their babies in other manners, e.g. sticking a coat hanger up there.. it's just not safe!
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    (Original post by Ghostly.)
    If it was genuine, I could literally only save one no matter what, there's no "oh well I wouldn't be in that situation". If it were between a psychopath who had killed my family and others and told me he is going to kill me too etc etc, against my best friend, I'll obviously save my best friend because I would value his life over the psychopaths. The decision would be easy (not to mention he'd kill me if I didn't)

    If it were against my parents, or two people who are genuinely equal to me, I would find it really difficult to make a decision as I love them both equally.

    Let me make this clear... My point wasn't that you're all liars as such, my point was you can't say you find them equal if you would go for the baby instantly. I'm not saying you all would either. If you would find it as difficult as me choosing between my parents then you have a strong view about abortion and I respect that you are allowed that view. My point was just saying you can't say both

    I don't mean an offence or anything
    then...
    I think the question should just be...
    do you view an infant (a baby who has been born) as equally as you view a fetus (a baby that has not been born)? unlike the what if scenarios, there is an absolute. it still covers your point as well, correct?


    in which I must answer, yes (as I stated w/ the scenarios). there is no difference between a fetus, a teen, an infant, or an adult in terms of equality. they are all human.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    the only acceptable sex is between two individuals that accept their responsibility for what to occur there after and accept that sex is to procreate a child (though that may not need to be the end goal). otherwise, if you do not accept this and take an immature stance in which sex is purely for your amusement - then yes. that is abusive and a misuse.

    to keep this on tract.
    the "larger part of the population who have sex for pleasure" does not make abortion okay/moral.
    What? So you expect people to never have sex unless they are prepared for a child? Srsly TSR? Like, srsly?! :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by Ghostly.)
    1% is not true.. may I add that some women don't admit to being raped? I sure as hell wouldn't.

    And if they make abortion illegal people will abort their babies in other manners, e.g. sticking a coat hanger up there.. it's just not safe!
    here is another perspective on the issue
    http://prolifeaction.org/hotline/2011/coathanger/

    lets generalise it, however, and state self-abortion.
    in order to address the issue, we must ask, why would someone do a self-abortion. then we could address what will happen after abortion is illegal accurately.

    many problems faced by many women who had self-abortions were self-acceptance, societal acceptance, self-respect, and deprivation (both emotional and material) to name the least. these issues still exist today in which drive abortions both legal and illegal. if these issues were solved - as they are in an attempt of doing or have already been - then there would not be (self) abortions.

    the movement to end abortion includes the removal or solutions to these issues.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    What? So you expect people to never have sex unless they are prepared for a child? Srsly TSR? Like, srsly?!
    I did not say I expect people to do anything. I merely stated my position. if it were to be followed, std's would become a rarity if existing at all. rape, by golly, might not exist (since no one would have the desire to force the act). unwanted pregnancies would decrease. population may decrease. poverty may decrease.

    however, the issue is in the following. so the ideal in full 100% existence is a utopia of sorts.

    this is all I may discuss on the topic within this thread.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    I did not say I expect people to do anything. I merely stated my position. if it were to be followed, std's would become a rarity if existing at all. rape, by golly, might not exist (since no one would have the desire to force the act). unwanted pregnancies would decrease. population may decrease. poverty may decrease.

    however, the issue is in the following. so the ideal in full 100% existence is a utopia of sorts.

    this is all I may discuss on the topic within this thread.
    Rape wouldn't exist in a more modest society. In places where an emphasis is put on chastity, rape still exists. So you wouldn't stop rape. Education about contaception and confidence would have the same result. Trying to encourage people to not have sex never works
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    (Original post by skumgummi)
    well, populating an already overpopulated world, ruining 2 peoples lives and giving a baby a bad life is a lot more abusive than getting rid of an almost baby.
    the world is not overpopulated. many scientists/mathmatitions don't even think that we are near the tip of the population curve.

    The only two people who are affected when an embryo is aborted are the mother and father. No one else.
    and the child
    Do I care if an unborn child that no one has any affection for is aborted, no,
    of course you don't. this has nothing to do with affection, but ignorance.
    like many germans during the holocaust...who cares. its not you.

    Do I care when an unwanted child is born into a broken home?
    why should you? you follow the above mentality...or do you?

    But it's not my choice and me caring or not should have no impact on the choice the people who are actually impacted make.
    may affect them in an indirect way.

    and hey! if you're into the whole god thing, isn't the ultimate goal to die and go hang out in heaven the whole point of life anyway?
    I never mentioned God. the only way you could have guessed my following of any god was to check my profile or assume there is a connection between anti-abortion and religion. there is not. this is a human issue much like the holocaust. to cover your question, however.

    the whole goal is to live. "go forth and multiply", "thou shall not kill", etc. etc.
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    (Original post by Tyrion_Lannister)
    Rape wouldn't exist in a more modest society. In places where an emphasis is put on chastity, rape still exists. So you wouldn't stop rape. Education about contaception and confidence would have the same result. Trying to encourage people to not have sex never works
    a soceity that follows chasity is a modest soceity.
    contraception has not brought out the same result for close to a century now.
    proper education would present the fact that many of the contraceptives don't do what people think they do or have a lower percentage of effectiveness.

    many people have already, not have sex, based on their principal and based on the desire to have a chaste life...which involves more than "no sex".
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    a soceity that follows chasity is a modest soceity.
    contraception has not brought out the same result for close to a century now.
    proper education would present the fact that many of the contraceptives don't do what people think they do or have a lower percentage of effectiveness.

    many people have already, not have sex, based on their principal and based on the desire to have a chaste life...which involves more than "no sex".
    And they still have rapes. Because people don't know how to use it or what's available. My sex education consisted mainly of condoms and the pill. Luckily I know about other stuff, but loads of people don't. People just rely on the two most obvious ones without looking into the other options and how to do it properly. You can get contraceptives that have a failure rate as low as less than 0.1%.

    Condoms with typical use fail a lot.
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    (Original post by edithwashere)
    Pretty much, none of it was a walk in the park (by the way, I find your sentence pretty rude. If you think being raped isn't horrid, or having an abortion isn't horrid, clearly you have never experienced either, and so perhaps you should shut up and stop passing judgement on something you clearly don't understand?)
    I already know about rape and its damages. my question was to gather your perspective, which may be different to another person. especially on the statement that you do belief that abortion is horrid. sentence in italics

    What was most upsetting was the people who insisted it was MY fault for being promiscuous and "if you have sex you should live with the consequences" without knowing anything about how I had become pregnant. They behaved like I had no idea what an abortion was, like I was being frivolous and silly throwing away a "potential life" without giving any kind of emotional support or showing any empathy towards me in the situation.
    the manner in which a person may act does not mean all do. I am sorry for what you have gone through.

    I'm at university, I'm certainly not stupid, and I thought long and hard about what I would do. Women don't go getting abortions at the drop of a hat, it can be an extremely traumatising time and to be demonised by complete strangers who care more about the wellbeing of a bundle of cells than a living breathing moving adult human is foul. There is a special circle in hell for those people. They are malicious, spiteful, cruel and vindictive, they know exactly what they are doing, they are not "speaking for the unborn foetus" they are silencing the women who desperately need and want to end their pregnancies without being physically and verbally bullied through the process.
    Having a general concern for the two victims of a rape resulting in pregnancy is not a bully mentality. however, if someone is immature and irresponsible in the manner they act, then yes: they should stop.

    here is another perspective:
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/rap...e-stereotypes/

    did anyone discuss the issue with you to having an abortion?

    I am serious in this discussion and do not wish to push your limits. you may have a disconsern with having to delve into this situation again and again. especially by the likes of me. If you wish you may not answer, or respond with a pm.

    I wish and hope you the best, have a nice day.
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    (Original post by snowyowl)
    "If you don't want a baby don't have sex".

    I see this comment aimed at women all the time. However, there are plenty of men who never wish to have children. Do you suggest THEY abstain from sex for the rest of their lives? Or is it only the woman's responsibility to take precautions?
    men are included in the dsicusion of abstinence.

    My partner and I have sex. We use condoms as I can't go on hormonal contraception (I am a sufferer of migraines with aura, and hormonal contraception puts me at risk o having a stroke). We can't afford to bring up a baby and if we had one, and couldn't provide it with the upbringing it would deserve - so if I fell pregnant we would have an abortion. We have discussed it and agreed on this, and we feel it is the most sensible decision.
    how is killing a human sensable?

    Why is bringing a child into a life where it struggles to have enough to wear, can never go on school trips or days out, is always cold and hungry because we cant afford food or heating any more, better than an abortion?
    much like me. that child can live.

    I lived a childhood where my parents couldn't afford to provide school trips and days out, decent clothes and food, for me and I would never wish it on my potential future children.
    as most do, they work hard to accomindate what they can. your livelihood and happiness is not based on what is around, but who is around you.

    Having said that, I have come to the conclusion that I never want to have children. Should my partner and I never have sex again?
    what is the point of answering a question with whom answered it for themselves?
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    The world is already overpopulated, add those figures you've said every year and we'd have big problems in a few decades
    Posted from TSR Mobile
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    If I was pregnant, I would definitely get an abortion, sorry.
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    (Original post by da_nolo)
    men are included in the dsicusion of abstinence.
    Well that's something at least.

    how is killing a human sensable?
    We don't believe that abortion is "killing a human".


    much like me. that child can live.

    as most do, they work hard to accomindate what they can. your livelihood and happiness is not based on what is around, but who is around you.
    There's a difference between living and having a life. Isn't it natural to want to provide the best for any future children?

    By your logic, why bother trying to help people out of poverty? After all, they "can live", and I'm sure they have family around them.

    what is the point of answering a question with whom answered it for themselves?
    1. I may not want children but condoms can fail.
    2. Your sentence didn't even make sense!
 
 
 
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