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    It's all very well that Western leaders are queuing up to defend freedom of speech, but they've been destroying it for years now - funny how they're only willing to defend it in the face of a terrorist attack.

    The French police have a case to answer here too. Specific threats were made against the magazine a few days ago, yet the police failed to commit any additional resources to defending them.

    The UK's response to terrorism receives a lot of criticism and usually rightly so, but I can guarantee that if, say, Private Eye were threatened with violence some form of armed guard would be deployed to protect them ASAP.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Rubbish. Drawing pictures of anything is within freedom of speech and it's time muslims sucked it up and learnt to deal with criticism like mature adults instead of throwing tantrums.
    I think that it is our moral duty to insist in criticising and making fun of what deserves being criticised and made fun of : and this includes Muhammad

    satire of powerful figures is sacrosanct and healthy, and should be protected at all costs
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    (Original post by NameerK)
    Well, if you look at my full post, that is exactly what I said.
    Sorry, I was confused by you saying
    I don't believe if a religion orders you to kill people not similar to you, we should respect it and be tolerant towards it. The thing is, that Islam DOES NOT order you to do it, rather it's a sin. But there is a sect, that is only growing, that does order you to do this. It's the sect of the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and ISIS. I don't know what this sect is called, and as a Muslims I know that this goes against Islam
    And no, I don't know of any single MAINSTREAM tafsir that would provide justification.
    Ibn Kathir is about as mainstream as you can get!

    "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be killed" - 5:33

    "`Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief," - Ibn Kathir
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    The French police have a case to answer here too. Specific threats were made against the magazine a few days ago, yet the police failed to commit any additional resources to defending them.
    The newspaper received threats almost constantly and is under police protection, apparently two of the victims are police officers, one was specifically tasked to protect one of the cartoonists who was killed too.

    They took it pretty seriously, but when three guys with apparently high professionalism and assault rifles surprise you, even dedicated police protection can't ensure absolute safety. To prevent what happened you would probably have needed a dozen officers with bullet proof vests and heavy weapons on site at any time.
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    I think that it is our moral duty to insist in criticising and making fun of what deserves being criticised and made fun of : and this includes Muhammad

    satire of powerful figures is sacrosanct and healthy, and should be protected at all costs
    Totally agree, the worst we could do would be to tiptoe round muslims and criticism of Islam just because to do so may trigger a violent response.
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    (Original post by #Ridwan)
    It's all very well that Western leaders are queuing up to defend freedom of speech, but they've been destroying it for years now - funny how they're only willing to defend it in the face of a terrorist attack.

    The French police have a case to answer here too. Specific threats were made against the magazine a few days ago, yet the police failed to commit any additional resources to defending them.

    The UK's response to terrorism receives a lot of criticism and usually rightly so, but I can guarantee that if, say, Private Eye were threatened with violence some form of armed guard would be deployed to protect them ASAP.
    I don't think the French police should be shown in a negative light, according to reports quoting senior politicians in France there have been numerous potential terrorist attacks prevented in the last few weeks (although I'm not sure if they increased their terror alert until today). Whilst you could say Charlie Hebdo was an obvious target due to its' content and recent threat, there are potentially many other equally likely targets that we don't know about purely because they weren't attacked
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    Just read this on Twitter

    "I don't care if you think 2+2 doesn't equal 4. If you have the truth on your side, you don't have to shoot anyone. #JeSuisCharlie"

    Sums Islamic extremists up.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Sorry, I was confused by you saying

    Ibn Kathir is about as mainstream as you can get!

    "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be killed" - 5:33

    "`Wage war' mentioned here means, oppose and contradict, and it includes disbelief," - Ibn Kathir
    why you still saying this when Zamestaneh set you str8? i see you had no reply huh

    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    Actually, our answers are quite clear, you just seem to reject them because they don't fit in with your view that Islam is bad, therefore you will not stop spreading misinformation until the Muslims themselves believe in the extreme narrative that you propose.

    That verse does not justify today's attack. These people were not at war with Muslims.

    Your Ibn Kathir quote lists 3 conditions. To 'oppose and contradict' is to fight against Muslims (due to them following Islam) and to contradict the law in clear rebellion - this fulfils 2 of the conditions. The third condition is that whilst physically fighting against Muslims and rebelling, the person doing so is in a state of disbelief. Once all 3 of these conditions are met, then the person has 'waged war' and thus this ayah comes into effect.
    Oppose means to physuically fight againt Muslims
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    Freedom of speech is a myth we don't have that anyway. The money they're taking from the people to find so called "terrorists" is used to suppress our right to speak the truth.
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    (Original post by al_94)
    Freedom of speech is a myth we don't have that anyway. The money they're taking from the people to find so called "terrorists" is used to suppress our right to speak the truth.
    What is the truth then?
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    (Original post by mariachi)
    a perfect slave mentality

    congrats
    why am i a slave?
    as far as im concerned your all as bad as eachother
    the nutjob terrorists and people like youself who dont leave thrm alone
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    (Original post by Marco1)
    No. This is what happens when you lampoon Islam. Nothing at all to do with 'troubling people'.
    both you lot are as bad as eachother
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    What is the truth then?
    Well that's the point if you say the truth you can expect the police to turn up at your door.
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    (Original post by L'Evil Fish)
    But the only intention of satirical cartoons of the prophet and other religious personas are to piss off the followers, and give off the whole 'I can do what I want.'
    That's not the intention. Your understanding of satire seems not just misguided but somewhat paranoid. Satirical cartoons are an accepted form of media humour to entertain and to give imaginative expression to the thoughts of questioning minds. It is tolerated in the West as a positive manifestation of a healthy intelligent society. No public or religious figure is above criticism.
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    (Original post by al_94)
    Well that's the point if you say the truth you can expect the police to turn up at your door.
    There are very few things I cannot say due to the law. The truth is not one of them.
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    (Original post by matthewduncan)
    both you lot are as bad as eachother
    Eh? Who is 'you lot'?
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    A few more of these barbaric senseless attacks in Europe and ****s gonna hit the fan. Worries me

    RIP to all those killed today.
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    (Original post by kushmakush)
    why you still saying this when Zamestaneh set you str8? i see you had no reply huh
    Didn't see this. Thanks for pointing it out. I will go and address it and then copy a reply to you.
    (He has basically ignored what Ibn Kathir said and used his own interpretation, which is fine, but Ibn Kathirs is still legitimate and therefore a valid scriptural justification. The problem is that many Islamopologists on here seem to think that whatever interpretation they favour is the only one that is allowed. Unfortunately, Islam is not like that, as we all know.)
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    There are very few things I cannot say due to the law. The truth is not one of them.
    If the truth goes against the government agenda then they will arrest you illegally you can't do anything about it. People need to research these terror attacks and actually understand what's going on here.
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    (Original post by nebelbon)
    As soon as i heard about the attack i didn't even have to ask who the perpetrators were...

    The decent Muslims, of which the vast majority are, need to stop radical fascist terrorists from doing these things.
    For somebody that appears to have the basic knowledge/ education to understand how to use the internet, I'm suprised that you just typed a statement that lacked so much sense. Asking 'decent' muslims to apologise on behalf of a few members of their group is very foolish. The 'decent Muslims' did nothing wrong than following their religion peacefully. Next time a European commits a crime, I am expecting an apology from every single European thanks Tell a white person about slavery and the repercussions of their ancestors actions they're quick to do 'That wasn't me you can't blame me'.
 
 
 
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