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Feeling accepted in Britain (for ethnic minorities) watch
- 10-01-2015 03:35
(Original post by al_94)
- 10-01-2015 03:37
I never said all English people are White supremacists I don't know what you've been smoking. I'll say again how dare you question me and my right to live in my country of birth. You are an ignorant person you need help you can't tell me to leave the UK because I'm not indigenous but say White people can live anywhere because they "conquered" it which is racist in itself because the whites of today never conquered anything so basically you're saying they have a birth right because of their skin colour.
- 10-01-2015 03:39
- 10-01-2015 03:44
(Original post by Foo.mp3)
- 10-01-2015 09:43
More concerned? I’m not sure that would stop xenophobia, or necessarily be less divisive, although I agree that perhaps it should be approached differently..
It’s the later, and it can in the sense that we can put an end to mass immigration, if not the high birth rate among certain immigrant groups We can encourage people to return to lands to which they, their value systems/doctrines/'laws', are 'better suited' however
Yes. The reason inter-civilisational mixing has caused major friction throughout history is identity vs. the reason it has worked out over the very long term in the end, in some cases, is the evolution of identity
It’s not a solution, it’s la mode du jour in many advanced (enlightened/scientific/liberal) societies, ergo, a near inevitability
What I meant is Muslims becoming more moderate, and more concerned with worldly realities e.g. their fellow man (be he a kafir or not). In terms of the literal definition of secularism all this means is the Government not bending over to/for Islam, although I would go further than that personally
I meant that it would make young people from minorities identify more with Britain. I've always learned French history at school and really liked some parts of it like Louis XIV but I never identified with it. The only time you heard about black people was for slavery and decolonisation. And you never hear about arab people. No wonder why some of them don't identify with being French.
I guess you're talking about Somalians in this case. And I do agree with you on this one. But it's not like we can send them back to Somalia since it's war torn and dangerous. We certainly need to find a balance between "their" values etc and that of white British people.
Lol so between minorities or between minorities and white people?
Well you can't blame certain people that feel that their children are losing their identity due to Westernisation.
Like complaining about how Western society privileges white people or how certain women can't wear the niqab (which is forbidden is France now).
I wouldn't say France is more advanced in these matters but Britain is. It recognises communities and communatrism at least.
But most Muslims are actually moderate.
Of course the gov should neutral about religion, neither bending for or being against a religion. The latter of which is happening for Islam in France and in Britain (but at lesser extent). It goes both ways. While England mixes the state and the Anglican church (is that it?), France is supposed to have seperated the Catholic church and the state since the late 19th century. But Christianity is still favorised?
(Original post by ProudEnglishman)
- 10-01-2015 11:35
1) Which bits of what I said are “absolute conjecture” and why?
2) People do indeed travel; however, in the past people did not travel as much and nowhere near as freely. Saying that “something is wrong” with me if I do not wish to miscegenate is complete and utter nonsense! We are naturally attracted to our own kind. I have heard COUNTLESS English females say that, “I'm not racist, but I would never date a black man.” So unless if you intend on screaming “RACIST!” at each of these females, then you are quite simply incorrect in your assertion.
3) Speaking English does not make one English. You purport to be able to speak English better than I, and yet you refer to the English language as “British”. Wow. Thus I find it completely apt that you chose to use the adverb “ostensibly” for you have just demonstrated that you cannot speak English better than I whatsoever. Quod erat demonstrandum.
4) Do tell me what you have contributed to my people's culture, and I shall be the judge of whether it was a good or a bad contribution.
5) I could not care less whether you are going to or at university in this country. Your contribution to it, I assume, will be nothing different than the usual. And would you like a gold medal for paying tax just like everyone else has to? Not to mention that tax is not something I'd be “proud” of having to pay, given that the government has quite the habit of wasting it. So I'm sure you are, for example, glad to know that you are subsiding the mass-slaughter and continual displacement of the Palestinian people from their homeland by Israhell. Well done. A marvellous moral feat. Definitely something to be “proud” of.
6) I do not value egalitarianism any more than I do Christinsanity. And how arrogant are you to claim that Nature is “flawed”? What madman could say that the thing by which and within which we exist is “flawed”? Nature is absolutely opposed to egalitarianism because egalitarianism is completely unnatural. So I think you will find that it is egalitarianism that is “flawed”. O no! Lest we be called a “racist”! You are a fool if you think that such a word has any power over me. Shouting it hither and thither will achieve nought.
1. I can't take the time to go back, as have limited time - but you did make assumptions. But never mind that.
2. No, people are entitled to their preferences, of course. But if you found them attractive and said 'no, I'm not going to dilute the 'gene pool' then that would be weird. There's a big difference.
3. Fair enough, you speak English well, better than you initially did. But English is my first language, and I am culturally as British as anyone else.
4. I actually try to make this country a better place: I fundraise a lot for a lot of charitable organisations, work for a charity organisation, volunteer for the public sector, and training to be within the public sector in a capacity to save lives.
I'm not asking for a medal - I'm asking why you are willing to be 'racist' to good people, just because of the colour of their skin, or differentiation of there genes?
5. Society and Nature (complex animal behavior: human behavior is much much different) are completely separate.
Why is egalitarianism completely un-natural in society???? You don't think that all should be equal?
What made you be so bitter towards foreigners (and those who aren't totally English - so a hell of a lot of people, like myself) so much? You realise one of your children (if you have children, or will do), or their children's children, will end up with someone who isn't English. That is inevitable.
I don't see why you think globalisation as a bad thing. Why on earth would you care about genetic make-up?
If I'm not English, then what am I? You can't go isolating half of the country, telling them they belong nowhere, just because they don't have pure genes. That is ridiculous.
If you have a passport, you are a citizen. You are the same as anyone else.Last edited by hellodave5; 10-01-2015 at 11:37.
- 10-01-2015 11:36
Reading this post has made me a very happy chap.
I have sometimes got insecure due to where I come from.
But after reading some of the stories here, next time I walk in the street, I will heep my head up with pride!!
- 10-01-2015 11:39
- 10-01-2015 11:56
Here's your problem.
Assimilation is key, enforcing cultural values and not appeasing minorities is really what is required to have ethnic groups accepted in a foreign land. The host nation's people will most certainly repel you if you act like an entitled antisocial warrior, not conforming to our rules.
You may see it as oppressive or controlling, but in the real world, community is everything, and when communities split down ideological lines, you end up with a strong division that potentially can lead to civil war.
Just start being a respectable Brit. i.e. not drinking excessively and partying hard.
(Original post by Foo.mp3)
- 10-01-2015 12:20
That wasn’t terribly British of him now was it? Sorry this happened to you OP
These sort of comments that serve as to alienate particular immigrant communities from the rest of the population. If you want to live harmoniously among us, in our land, kindly respect us, our culture and history
*drops mic* Vote UKIP if you want, get "us" kicked out but I am probably more "white" than you.
- 10-01-2015 13:13
- 10-01-2015 13:41
- 10-01-2015 13:43
(Original post by queen-bee)
- 10-01-2015 14:05
I would probably have been a victim of much more violent racial abuse over there than I ever will in the UK
And just for the record, my hatred of benefit scoungers extends to everyone, not just emigrants
it never really works out because of the culture clash
I’m sure your parents would be much more happier if you brought back an English girl home or European rather than this immigrant
there may be things from my culture you will never understand or agree with?
Like when I told you about the circumsicion practice and giving gifts and money,that may have been something completely new to you and weddings aren't conducted in the simple way Brits do it,usually lots of practices are involved,just the whole culture is different...
I do meet the standards for all of them but I still will never feel 100% accepted
I would like to feel 100% British, not just for me but for you too, it's better to be on the same page
(Original post by oxymoronical)
Also, the Coptic faith does not permit one to marry a non-Oriental Orthodox individual :P
Spoiler:ShowBetter luck with your next Coptic conquest
I meant that it would make young people from minorities identify more with Britain
you never hear about arab people. No wonder why some of them don't identify with being French
it's not like we can send them back to Somalia since it's war torn and dangerous
We need to find a balance between "their" values etc and that of white British people
Lol so between minorities or between minorities and white people?
Well you can't blame certain people that feel that their children are losing their identity due to Westernisation
complaining about how Western society privileges white people
how certain women can't wear the niqab (which is forbidden is France now)
I wouldn't say France is more advanced in these matters but Britain is. It recognises communities and communatrism at least
Spoiler:Show(Original post by Foo.mp3)
..it's pretty well known by now among anyone with their eyes open - even in mainstream/traditionally 'liberal' circles - that the melting pot multicultural model / state multiculturalism has failed and that Muslim segregation/concentration and distortion of societal conditions/antisocial/anti-'British way of life' culture/practices are major problems in urban centres up and down the country e.g. off the top of my head:
• Shariah courts supplanting/usurping domestic legal structures/rights
• Abuse, expoitation, and domination of females/homosexuals under particular blends of related retrograde patriarchal mal-culture
• 'Honor' crimes and general lack of engagement with/intolerance regarding other groups in society
• No-go areas for whites/non-Muslims, even the police vs. 'Muslim Police'
• Muslim inmates being 3.25x over-represented in the prison population
• Islamism and insidious attempts to pervert our public services including schools
• Muslim paedophile / rape / assault / murder gangs
• Militant islamism, terrorism and domestic insurgency
most Muslims are actually moderate
The latter of which is happening for Islam in France and in Britain (but at lesser extent)
You are the same as anyone else
(Original post by iamsuperwoman)
Look at this fool. My SJ (Mum) is as white upper middle class as it gets
it is YOU who wants to live harmoniously among us in "our" land
Vote UKIP if you want, get "us" kicked out but I am probably more "white" than youLast edited by Foo.mp3; 10-01-2015 at 14:21.
- 10-01-2015 14:18
(Original post by queen-bee)
- 10-01-2015 14:39
So today,I went out to the pharmacy to get some essentials etc and as I was walking back home I came across two guys who seemed to look normal at first sight. One of them then just suddenly came up to me and started asking questions about where i'm from and then went on to insult my background after I told him I was part middle eastern and part italian. He also blamed 'my people' for the Paris attack today and was rambling on and on,bearing in my mind this was in a shop and everyone could hear and see the harsh racist comments he was making. He said stuff like 'oh you will never be british,no matter what you or you people do to try to fit in'...
so after I left the store and got home, I started thinking further about what he was saying. I mean I may have been born here but I don't even feel british at all! I've never dated a fully british guy for this reason I guess. I mean, I follow a similar culture(drinking,partying,how I dress etc) but will ethnic minorities ever be accepted into british society?! Do those on this forum who were born into ethnic families feel like they are accepted or do you still feel like an outsider?
thinks about my contribution to this society. Further to this, what makes them anymore acceptable than myself and millions of other ethinic minorities? Finally, i am way too good looking to seek someones acceptance= as things stand people seek my acceptance.Last edited by JamesNeedHelp2; 10-01-2015 at 14:41.
- 10-01-2015 14:51
I am an ethnic minority myself and people are not usually racist just for the sake of being racist.
For example, last summer I went to Great Yarmouth, which has been a declining town for a few decades and it is 99% White. I found that people there were quite hostile, and many of those were racist. But people who are racist are usually because they are using other people as a scapegoat for their own failings.
You hear people saying "they took all our jobs" "they are straining services" etc. This is usually said by the white working class. If they are unemployed, they look for someone else to blame rather than seeing that it is their fault they are unskilled or that they are unwilling to work in certain jobs.
Hence why UKIP is doing so well in areas where there is high unemployment and with high economic deprivation, such as Grimsby and Great Yarmouth. People aren't racist for the sake of it, they only do it because they have no one else to blame. If it was a fat person or a gay person who "took their job" then they will probably blame them instead.
People who are well-educated would see the facts that people from Eastern Europe and immigrants etc. contribute more towards the economy than the working class whites who rely on the government for benefits and then blame others but not themselves.
(Original post by Foo.mp3)
- 10-01-2015 15:17
I see the potential gains there as being still more dubious I’m afraid, as a lot of such history is either completely unrelated to the UK, or paints our forbears in a poor light
Not sure e.g. the history of French oppression in Algeria would inspire Arabs to identify more with France
I was referring to people from other civilisations (particularly ones that clash with ours); they shouldn’t really be admitted in the first place unless they are highly skilled/educated individuals we actually need here, their lands are thousands of miles away and there are plenty of more appropriate places for them to go closer to ‘home’. If they were to be deported then if not somewhere like Somalia then to a relatively suitable e.g. nearby state
I’m sorry, ‘we’? I’m not sure why you think you should get to set the agenda for Britain, and I’m pretty sure if anyone should it’s white British people (still forming the majority in our country). We want people who will subscribe to British values first and foremost, we are simply not interested in anyone else settling here, period
I already answered this. Minorities should have equal opportunities e.g. black males in this country currently do not
I’m sorry, can you be more specific?: blame whom, for what?
That’s fine, and a legitimate complaint
I don’t expect everyone to like this, but I would expect them to understand why dressing that way is seen as unacceptable in a modern, civilised, society, and to respect the laws of the land or else to move to a more Islamic country if they want to get big into all that jazz
And what do we have as a result?
On paper, yes
Can you give an example of how the UK Government is demonstrably anti-Islam?
Don't UK pupils learn about the Egyptians in History (serious question since I've done all my education in France )? And you should only be taught the parts of History that paint your ancestors in a good light? That's pretty messed up.
Good point. Classes actually cover this part of history. But maybe if programmes talked about all the Arabs and blacks and asians that fought for France during the the first and second World Wars, it might help. Or dedicating a whole chapter to France's role in the slave trade to pay some respect to the descendants of these slaves that make up the majority of the people that live in the overseas regions like Martinique, Guadeloupe or Guyane.
Could you be more specific? You mean people from Islamic countries? I don't like the idea of "picking and choosing" but I guess it is necessary, especially now.
I really don't understand why you would think I'd be so pompous as to think I'm actually qualified to set such agendas. I'm only 17.
And I actually meant white people, because in the end it's your country, right?
And sorry, I didn't understand your answer so that's I made you repeat. But I agree on equal opportunities 100%.
Let me repeat: Parents from immigrant background are often worried that their kids are losing their identity because of Westernisation. I don't a 100% agree with this stance.
And about all these problems associated with members of the Muslim community, I didn't know that. However the melting pot ideal hasn't totally failed, otherwise there would be so many mixed people like myself and our lovely OP.
I wasn't talking about the British gov's actions (France's Sarkozy gov however...) but of the general sentiment towards Muslims, which I personally don't feel is justified.
- 10-01-2015 15:18
(Original post by ProudEnglishman)
- 10-01-2015 15:30
You misconstrue me then as a “Little Englander”. I have no qualms with fellow Europeans being here so long as they're not here in too great a quantity and undergo assimilation from day one; however, I would not like to see anymore beings move to this country as we're already greatly overpopulated. So no “cognitive dissonance” then.
Your previous statements seemed much more extreme than what you put forward there.
Its interesting how you specifically mention Europeans, though.
I think if you told your friends that have foreign ancestry your opinion that they aren't really 'British', you would have quite the fall out.
Not so much little Englander, as you seem to have a noggin (even though you hold extremely offensive views), but more of a middle class, not all that common, EDL type. Perhaps a man of older adulthood, with very strong views of another time.