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Palestine or Israel Watch

  • View Poll Results: Palestine or Israel ?
    Palestine
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    Israel
    55
    27.09%
    I don't know
    12
    5.91%

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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    The darn, small minded, right wing
    1) In what sense are right-wingers e.g. traditionalists, inherently hateful?

    2) Do you not see how exhibiting (arbitrary) hostility towards traditionalists reveals (prejudicial) small mindedness, within thyself?
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    True haha. The darn, small minded, right wing
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    Israel heading even further right with Yisrael Beiteinu joining the government and Avigdor Lieberman as Defence Minister.

    Personally, I think we're going to hit a break point soon. Increasingly, it's only Netanyahu which is keeping Israel nominally tied to the peace process - his cabinet and party are increasingly packed with people who are explicitly against it. If Israel's next PM explicitly comes out against continuing the peace process, what will the Americans do?
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    If Israel's next PM explicitly comes out against continuing the peace process, what will the Americans do?
    Nothing, as per usual. It's political suicide in America to even mildly criticise Israel, though I imagine some empty platitudes will not go undeployed.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Israel heading even further right with Yisrael Beiteinu joining the government and Avigdor Lieberman as Defence Minister.

    Personally, I think we're going to hit a break point soon. Increasingly, it's only Netanyahu which is keeping Israel nominally tied to the peace process - his cabinet and party are increasingly packed with people who are explicitly against it. If Israel's next PM explicitly comes out against continuing the peace process, what will the Americans do?
    Clinton has said she won't do anything. Trump has said he wanted to stop spending so much money on foreign states, so theoretically he could cut the military aid to Israel, but I doubt it.

    Israel is looking more and more isolated, depending almost completely on the USA.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Nothing, as per usual. It's political suicide in America to even mildly criticise Israel, though I imagine some empty platitudes will not go undeployed.
    There's a difference between strongly siding with Israel and giving it unconditional support in everything it does, regardless of consequences. With the exception of hard-right Republicans, US politics does the former. It's hardly a secret that the Obama administration is pretty annoyed and frustrated with Netanyahu. They see him as too much of a loose cannon.

    The US favours the peace process because it keeps things quiet and keeps US allies in the region like Jordan, Egypt, and most crucially of all Saudi Arabia, content. Plus it would be an international embarassment for the US, who have committed themselves to the peace process at least nominally, if Israel explicitly rejected and terminated it and got away with it.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    There's a difference between strongly siding with Israel and giving it unconditional support in everything it does, regardless of consequences. With the exception of hard-right Republicans, US politics does the former. It's hardly a secret that the Obama administration is pretty annoyed and frustrated with Netanyahu. They see him as too much of a loose cannon.

    The US favours the peace process because it keeps things quiet and keeps US allies in the region like Jordan, Egypt, and most crucially of all Saudi Arabia, content. Plus it would be an international embarassment for the US, who have committed themselves to the peace process at least nominally, if Israel explicitly rejected and terminated it and got away with it.
    It's no secret, but it is the case that the Obama administration has been mauled by the Republicans (and right-leaning sections of the media and electorate) for even that.

    I do understand the difference; I just don't think that either position has dissimilar outcomes in practice. International embarrassment or not, no U.S. politician hoping to be re-elected will publicly profess anything less than near-unconditional support for Israel, whatever their private reservations.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    Clinton has said she won't do anything. Trump has said he wanted to stop spending so much money on foreign states, so theoretically he could cut the military aid to Israel, but I doubt it.

    Israel is looking more and more isolated, depending almost completely on the USA.
    I genuinely think the US is getting more reluctant though. I don't expect it to suddenly change sides or stop defending Israel at the UN, but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes more half-hearted and passive rather than active support.

    Also, increasingly there's a shift going on among pro-Israel constituencies in the US. Traditionally the most pro-Israel segment of American society was, unsurprisingly, the American Jewish community, who, generally speaking are moderates who vote Democrat. While they still support Israel, increasingly they're becoming less vocal and enthusiastic about it - enthusiastic pro-Israel activism is becoming more and more the domain of the evangelicals and other hard-right conservative groups.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    I genuinely think the US is getting more reluctant though. I don't expect it to suddenly change sides or stop defending Israel at the UN, but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes more half-hearted and passive rather than active support.
    It won't change anything concretely as long as the military aid keeps arriving.
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    (Original post by Josb)
    It won't change anything concretely as long as the military aid keeps arriving.
    Israel doesn't particularly need military aid, just as South Africa didn't. It has a more powerful army than it needs already. Its primary need from the US is diplomatic protection, including the US keeping the other Arab states quiet. To a lesser extent it benefits from US intelligence support, and economic relations could potentially become an issue further down the line but they're not really a problem now.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Israel doesn't particularly need military aid, just as South Africa didn't. It has a more powerful army than it needs already. Its primary need from the US is diplomatic protection, including the US keeping the other Arab states quiet. To a lesser extent it benefits from US intelligence support, and economic relations could potentially become an issue further down the line but they're not really a problem now.
    They need the American aid if they want to start an offensive, like against Gaza. They have more than enough planes and tanks, but they don't have that much ammo and fuel.

    The situation will however remain very calm for them for the next years as: (a) Saudi Arabia has started a disastrous war in Yemen (b) Syria, Hezbollah and Iran are kept busy in Syria (c) Egypt is now firmly following the USA since Sisi's coup (d) the USA are in presidential campaign atm, and the next president will be less critical of Israel than Obama.

    Israeli are taking advantage of this situation to completely bury the peace process by filling the West Bank with settlements. They will never say it of course, but this is their plan since at least a decade.

    The return of Lieberman is bad news, it means that a new massive plan of settlements is on the way.
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    Israel is a genocidal rogue state, what more can be said?
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    (Original post by EricPiphany)
    Oh my i love this so much😂 what's this guy called?
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    (Original post by Nayzar)
    Oh my i love this so much😂 what's this guy called?
    Who got this thread going again...

    The guy's called Tim Minchin.
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    Might is right. Israelis can do whatever they want and convince the rest of world and even themselves that they are the victims.

    https://youtu.be/eBc6WT1SIPk
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    The future of Israel and Palestine can only be solved by class vs class, not Arab vs Jew.
 
 
 
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