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Oxford PAT 2016 Watch

1. (Original post by suhaylpatel786)
Hi guys,
Im thinking of applying to Oxford for engineering. I got 4As at AS this year, in Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chem.
Ive not started any prep for the PAT.
What Maths modules should i cover?
A checklist of somesort with mlst of the things i need to do to be prepared would be great.
Thanks very much
Hey, at this point probably look at C4, especially the integration, and also S1 since probability questions do come up (memorised the probability formula).

As for the checklist....
C4
S1
Mental Arithmetics
MAT/STEP
BPHO
IPHO

Hope this helps!
2. (Original post by lawlieto)
1) you use difference of two squares, these "tricks" come automatically after having spent your life with maths.
(2023-2022)*(2023+2022) looks easier, right?

2) C1/C2. These questions are awfully common in the core modules, given that you had an A* in maths, this should be fine? If not, you could do some C1/C2 Solomon papers, they are supposed to be more challenging than past papers.

3) C2, same argument as above

4) C2/C3 same argument as above above
.
.
.
11) Average S1/S2 question
15) Curve sketching is my hobby You just have to practice them really. C3 curve sketching is not going to be enough here, the one in edexcel FP2 should be more help, and of course, you should do your own practice from PAT past papers.

I think these shouldn't mean any problem to you with an A* in maths and A in further maths. If you don't feel secure enough, practice using Solomon papers or more advanced A level questions (there should be threads on it but I've been sitting on a bus for 18 hours and I'm even too tired to go to the toilet but I can help you find them later)
Maths is all about practice and a bit of knowledge.
Thank you so much.
Solomon papers sounds interesting. I will certainly practice questions I need from them. So I decided to practice this in two parts: Physics and Maths.

After looking at the solutions, I now am able to solve the problems that I stumbled in the first place. There are few papers in which I was able to complete maths section without any problem but there are also the one where I had 4 problems. The fact that I stumbled in the first place worries me the most. I want to make it to 90+ in PAT. So far in my mock tests, my highest score is 82 which was 2015 (The papers I used for mock tests were new specimen, 2014 and 2015).
3. (Original post by Ipsooo)
Hey, for PAT last year, I mainly used the STEP papers (1&2) and the MAT for algebra, trigs, graphs etc. Step questions usually have a neat trick hidden away and it might be useful to learn how to spot these.

Also 'Advanced problems in Mathematics' and 'Core problems in Mathematics' by Siklos are well worth a read.
Thank you for the tips. I can solve half of the MAT papers but can't solve STEP papers. I hope Advanced problems in Mathematics would help me here. Not sure how long would it take for me to complete the book. :P
4. (Original post by Ipsooo)
Hey, at this point probably look at C4, especially the integration, and also S1 since probability questions do come up (memorised the probability formula).

As for the checklist....
C4
S1
Mental Arithmetics
MAT/STEP
BPHO
IPHO

Hope this helps!
Ipho is kind of mega overkill... I would suggest to stop at about Bpho round 2 ( max )
anw, were u able to tackle most of the Bpho P3 questions? I'm trying those and i get stuck quite a lot and theres no solution online, would you be able to help with that ?
5. (Original post by rohan.nuck)
what college was that. ? ( those questions are nothing like what I got asked)
St Hugh's and Univ. Interview questions can vary a lot because they're done by the tutors.
6. (Original post by rohan.nuck)
Ipho is kind of mega overkill... I would suggest to stop at about Bpho round 2 ( max )
anw, were u able to tackle most of the Bpho P3 questions? I'm trying those and i get stuck quite a lot and theres no solution online, would you be able to help with that ?
Would you mind posting some of the questions you are stuck on?
7. Guys I'm getting on with the math section and I am getting better after seeing a lot of the papers

But I really need help in the physics section, I haven't done muh work there I know as and capcitence and a some circular motion and geavity between bodies, (not confident in these ones yet) I really think the syllabus is so vague so I reallt want to know what to cover and where to cover it from, I feel like the physics action gives me a much harder time then the maths part it's hard for me to spot the tricks sometimes

I am kinda getting worried and I hope soemone can lend me some advice
8. (Original post by tangotangopapa2)
Would you mind posting some of the questions you are stuck on?
Question 2 Part (c) i don't get how the pressure is related to L. I can derive something in terms of x but it doesn't seem right
Question 3 part b(iii) am i just supposed to replace Mp by Mp+Mass of neutron ?
Part (c) ii) beats me
Question 4 b) ii) i'm not exactly sure about how to relate y to the intensity. I tried considering a small thickness delta y but it gets complex really fast
EDIT: I think i was just being dumb on 4 b) ii), I think i should just be able to consider a differential element dx and use 4 a) to solve the differential equation i get and 4b) i) for the limits of the differential equation. I'm assuming that the question wants me to find the intensity only at a height y and not the intensity from 0 to y.

If anyone looks at this and gets scared of pat for some reason : This is way harder than the Pat don't worry
9. (Original post by rohan.nuck)
Ipho is kind of mega overkill... I would suggest to stop at about Bpho round 2 ( max )
anw, were u able to tackle most of the Bpho P3 questions? I'm trying those and i get stuck quite a lot and theres no solution online, would you be able to help with that ?
I'm confused... Thought you've already taken the PAT?

And I agree the Ipho is too much for PAT prep but they do offer some interesting scenarios to think about.
10. (Original post by Ipsooo)
I'm confused... Thought you've already taken the PAT?
Yeah i have already taken the Pat. But i got a bit rusty and and i wanted to get back to a good level before doing my vacation work and before going to mansfield

Yep, the scenarios might be gr8 for the interviews too
11. (Original post by rohan.nuck)
Yeah i have already taken the Pat. But i got a bit rusty and and i wanted to get back to a good level before doing my vacation work and before going to mansfield
Oh congrats!! Probably see you around...
And regarding the bpho... you're probably significantly more competent than me, haven't looked at it since december.
12. (Original post by Ipsooo)
Oh congrats!! Probably see you around...
And regarding the bpho... you're probably significantly more competent than me, haven't looked at it since december.
Thanks ! Congrats to you too !
haha okay
Do you happen to know the Cut off for Bpho paper 3 to make it to the camp/ipho or something ? ( i'm an international student so i didn't actually participate but i have always wanted to know how well students actually do on these )
13. (Original post by rohan.nuck)
Thanks ! Congrats to you too !
haha okay
Do you happen to know the Cut off for Bpho paper 3 to make it to the camp/ipho or something ? ( i'm an international student so i didn't actually participate but i have always wanted to know how well students actually do on these )
I believe paper 3 is taken at camp as oppose to a selection for the camp which is paper 2, and because of that I don't think they publish boundaries for who is eventually selected to the Ipho.

According to their website, students that do make it to camp are getting 70+/80 in paper 1.
14. (Original post by Ipsooo)
I believe paper 3 is taken at camp as oppose to a selection for the camp which is paper 2, and because of that I don't think they publish boundaries for who is eventually selected to the Ipho.

According to their website, students that do make it to camp are getting 70+/80 in paper 1.
Ah okay, now i understand why i get stuck that much. They probably got decent training before that P3
15. (Original post by Ipsooo)
Hey, at this point probably look at C4, especially the integration, and also S1 since probability questions do come up (memorised the probability formula).

As for the checklist....
C4
S1
Mental Arithmetics
MAT/STEP
BPHO
IPHO

Hope this helps!
Thank you very much.
Do I need to cover M2 and M3, and what about the physics content, is it mostly AS knowledge?
16. (Original post by suhaylpatel786)
Thank you very much.
Do I need to cover M2 and M3, and what about the physics content, is it mostly AS knowledge?
No problem!
Personally I think your time is probably better spent else where. M3 certainly isn't needed, whilst some of the stuff on M2 is covered on the PAT like circular motion but m2 isn't great for practice (M2-typically easy intuition but lengthy algebra, PAT-harder intuition but as long as you spot the trick v.short answer)

The physics content covers part of the A2 course which your school might have taught you already depending on the order they teach it.
The main parts from A2 are:
Gravity and orbit (newton&keplar's law)
circular motion
capacitors
electromagnetism
A2 textbooks are really good for the basics.. and then just lots of practice from the olympiad papers to consolidate.
Hope this helps, and do feel free to message me if you're stuck on any questions!
17. (Original post by Ipsooo)
No problem!
Personally I think your time is probably better spent else where. M3 certainly isn't needed, whilst some of the stuff on M2 is covered on the PAT like circular motion but m2 isn't great for practice (M2-typically easy intuition but lengthy algebra, PAT-harder intuition but as long as you spot the trick v.short answer)

The physics content covers part of the A2 course which your school might have taught you already depending on the order they teach it.
The main parts from A2 are:
Gravity and orbit (newton&keplar's law)
circular motion
capacitors
electromagnetism
A2 textbooks are really good for the basics.. and then just lots of practice from the olympiad papers to consolidate.
Hope this helps, and do feel free to message me if you're stuck on any questions!
I sure will.
Looks like I got a lot a work to cover.
18. (Original post by rohan.nuck)
Question 2 Part (c) i don't get how the pressure is related to L. I can derive something in terms of x but it doesn't seem right
Question 3 part b(iii) am i just supposed to replace Mp by Mp+Mass of neutron ?
Part (c) ii) beats me
Question 4 b) ii) i'm not exactly sure about how to relate y to the intensity. I tried considering a small thickness delta y but it gets complex really fast
EDIT: I think i was just being dumb on 4 b) ii), I think i should just be able to consider a differential element dx and use 4 a) to solve the differential equation i get and 4b) i) for the limits of the differential equation. I'm assuming that the question wants me to find the intensity only at a height y and not the intensity from 0 to y.

If anyone looks at this and gets scared of pat for some reason : This is way harder than the Pat don't worry
Q. 3) part b) ii. I would replace mp by mp + mn (2 mp i.e. an approximation), assume natural length to be l or sth else, find new position relative to 2mp that does not move. ( I would find time of oscillations about arbitrary point and equate time periods. For stiffness of each section, I would use inverse proportionality with length) then inverse of time period of either section would give me fundamental frequency of deuterium.

These question are very challenging. I couldn't even understand 2 (c). If there is vacuum inside, what does n represent?
19. (Original post by tangotangopapa2)
Q. 3) part b) ii. I would replace mp by mp + mn (2 mp i.e. an approximation), assume natural length to be l or sth else, find new position relative to 2mp that does not move. ( I would find time of oscillations about arbitrary point and equate time periods. For stiffness of each section, I would use inverse proportionality with length) then inverse of time period of either section would give me fundamental frequency of deuterium.

These question are very challenging. I couldn't even understand 2 (c). If there is vacuum inside, what does n represent?
I already did part ii) and i for an expression for frequency and it turns out the frequency is proportional to sqrt(k/mp +k/me)
Since we can see that it only depends on the stiffness and the masses, can't i just replace mp by 2mp ? ( instead of re deriving the whole thing )

I think they are referring to the pressure due to the atmosphere. Thats the problem they didnt define n, so i presume n is the number of molecules in some Volume V and defining what n is might be a little pointless because in the end the pressure should be proportional to the density of the air. My best guess to this problem was to consider what would happen if the piston remained stationary at x=0. Intuitively i would say this could only happen if the pressure inside the tube was equal to that of outside. So the pressure outside ( that we want to calculate ) is equal to the pressure that the tube would exert if it was rfilled with n molecules traveling at a speed v. Thats the only way i can think of involving L in this problem

Btw do part ii) if u want, while the approach may seem obvious, the maths isn't unless you spot a few things
20. (Original post by rohan.nuck)
I already did part ii) and i for an expression for frequency and it turns out the frequency is proportional to sqrt(k/mp +k/me)
Since we can see that it only depends on the stiffness and the masses, can't i just replace mp by 2mp ? ( instead of re deriving the whole thing )

I think they are referring to the pressure due to the atmosphere. Thats the problem they didnt define n, so i presume n is the number of molecules in some Volume V and defining what n is might be a little pointless because in the end the pressure should be proportional to the density of the air. My best guess to this problem was to consider what would happen if the piston remained stationary at x=0. Intuitively i would say this could only happen if the pressure inside the tube was equal to that of outside. So the pressure outside ( that we want to calculate ) is equal to the pressure that the tube would exert if it was rfilled with n molecules traveling at a speed v. Thats the only way i can think of involving L in this problem

Btw do part ii) if u want, while the approach may seem obvious, the maths isn't unless you spot a few things
I got T = 2pi sqrt( mp X me / k(mp + me)) and f = 1/T. So, you could replace mp by (mp + mn).

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