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    (Original post by SterlingArcher)
    I'm glad you said this and your earlier posts; if you know devout Muslims and they are following religious texts word for word but they aren't killing people - what's the problem?

    If they have been following this text as close as you can and have been upstanding citizens them it must be their interpretation right?

    Or, why is it that these people just suddenly started bombing people - did they happen to inhale some time of poison?

    Or maybe, JUST maybe it's due to the events from the 60's
    Hmmmmm. But yet you said:

    (Original post by SterlingArcher)
    I shall be leaving.
    If you have a need to get the last word, knock yourself out. Here ya go. You got the last word. Well done.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Hating Islam is fine and it's only going to lead to disappointment for those who don't understand this fact.

    But you do identify the problem - Muslims want special treatment and if the don't get it they may get all explodey and stabby and start randomly killing people.

    You do know that this is not a good message to be pushing but in reality muslims need to grow up and realise their faith is nothing special and being a 'Muslim' does not make them special (and in the main Islam is viewed negatively because of all the murder and general backwardness and ****)
    Justify to me why it is acceptable to hate Islam and explain how hating Islam is helping society.

    Be very careful not to confuse criticising with hating.
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    erect a silly irrelevant strawman.
    There were vogons on Vogsphere who spotted that one
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Justify to me why it is acceptable to hate Islam and explain how hating Islam is helping society.

    Be very careful not to confuse criticising with hating.
    Islam is an ideology and like all ideologies we have the freedom to hate them. It is a choice we can make as it is a personal choice

    A society where we have such freedoms is better than one which doesn't.

    It helps society as those of us who don't like the ideology are free to express this and actively work towards preventing such a ideology from taking hold and having a negative effect. This helps our society in the long term.

    But you justify to me why it isn't OK to hate an 'ideology' and why preventing people form hating 'ideologies' is a positive thing
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    (Original post by Achaea;[url="tel:66510562")
    66510562[/url]]Hmmmmm. But yet you said:



    If you have a need to get the last word, knock yourself out. Here ya go. You got the last word. Well done.
    Ad hominem galore
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    There are certainly shades of TSR1269 here, aren't they? Plantagenet Crown's footstool spidey senses were tingling yesterday too...
    Let's think. "Errrrrm"*
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Islam is an ideology and like all ideologies we have the freedom to hate them. It is a choice we can make as it is a personal choice

    A society where we have such freedoms is better than one which doesn't.

    It helps society as those of us who don't like the ideology are free to express this and actively work towards preventing such a ideology from taking hold and having a negative effect. This helps our society in the long term.

    But you justify to me why it isn't OK to hate an 'ideology' and why preventing people form hating 'ideologies' is a positive thing
    Its not just an ideology, its also a religion to which many people in the UK follow, its their family beliefs, values, etc... But regardless, you should not hate on it because it segregates Muslims and encourages them to become hateful back.

    You've complained on numerous occasions about Muslims isolating themselves from British society, well hating on them is doing exactly that - and it is why hate speech against religions should not be allowed but constructive criticism should be encouraged.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    Its not just an ideology, its also a religion to which many people in the UK follow, its their family beliefs, values, etc... But regardless, you should not hate on it because it segregates Muslims and encourages them to become hateful back.

    You've complained on numerous occasions about Muslims isolating themselves from British society, well hating on them is doing exactly that - and it is why hate speech against religions should not be allowed but constructive criticism should be encouraged.
    Is that it?

    you think we should lose the freedoms to hate an ideology because it might make those who support it 'feel bad'

    Given the intolerance of Islam I'm not sure this is a idea you have really thought about
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    (Original post by Achaea)
    "If you show hatred towards any aspects of Tory policy, some Tories will have no choice but to become violent extremists!" "If you hate any aspects of feminism, feminists will become violent extremists!" LOL.

    It really is the bigotry of low expectations. These people think they're being so terribly tolerant and progressive, but in reality think that some/many Muslims cannot be expected not to be violent if any aspect of their ideology is criticised.
    These people are trying to rationalise people who watch what they perceive to be Western aggression and think an apporpriate response is to go and massacre thousands of Yazidi men and take the females as sex slaves. But as you allude to, that's not even the worst thing. They act like Muslims around the world are susceptible to this sort of thought process. This is what they think of Muslims. They think Muslims are like children who need to be molly-coddled or else they'll rage and start killing and raping everything.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Is that it?

    you think we should lose the freedoms to hate an ideology because it might make those who support it 'feel bad'

    Given the intolerance of Islam I'm not sure this is a idea you have really thought about
    I think freedom to hate is overrated, especially when it has the capacity to antagonise the very people you're being critical of.

    But as I said, criticism is fine, but relentlessly hating on Islam is destructive.
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    You can critique something without hating it.

    It's literally that simple.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    I think freedom to hate is overrated, especially when it has the capacity to antagonise the very people you're being critical of.

    But as I said, criticism is fine, but relentlessly hating on Islam is destructive.
    so you think we should lose a freedom we have to pacify an intolerant faith that hates these freedoms

    Sorry to going to fly
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    (Original post by SterlingArcher)
    You can criticism something without hating it.

    It's literally that simple.
    and you can still hate it AND criticism[sic] it as well

    It's literally that simple.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    These people are trying to rationalise people who watch what they perceive to be Western aggression and think an apporpriate response is to go and massacre thousands of Yazidi men and take the females as sex slaves. But as you allude to, that's not even the worst thing. They act like Muslims around the world are susceptible to this sort of thought process. This is what they think of Muslims. They think Muslims are like children who need to be molly-coddled or else they'll rage and start killing and raping everything.
    The circle jerking in this thread is getting a bit much. Get a room you guys.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    so you think we should lose a freedom we have to pacify an intolerant faith that hates these freedoms

    Sorry to going to fly
    You think we should antagonise and provoke a group of extremists and continue letting people die just to boast some hollow idea that freedom of hate is symbolically representative of liberty.
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    (Original post by KimKallstrom)
    These people are trying to rationalise people who watch what they perceive to be Western aggression and think an apporpriate response is to go and massacre thousands of Yazidi men and take the females as sex slaves. But as you allude to, that's not even the worst thing. They act like Muslims around the world are susceptible to this sort of thought process. This is what they think of Muslims. They think Muslims are like children who need to be molly-coddled or else they'll rage and start killing and raping everything.
    It does seem this way (But I suspect a few of them are actually Muslims but don't want to admit it as they know it would undermine their arguments)
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    You think we should antagonise and provoke a group of extremists and continue letting people die just to boast some hollow idea that freedom of hate is symbolically representative of liberty.
    Oh so its capitulation you want but yes hate to go all 'Team America' on you but freedoms are worth fighting for as is the fight against those who would deny us our freedoms

    So sorry not going to fly either

    (but love how you think all Muslims are extremists and will respond in only one way to dislike of their faith)

    But then this is what we said in 1915 so you're lucky as I think you'd have been put up against a wall and shot as a coward.

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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Oh so its capitulation you want but yes hate to go all 'Team America' on you but freedoms are worth fighting for as is the fight against those who would deny us our freedoms

    So sorry not going to fly either

    (but love how you think all Muslims are extremists and will respond in only one way to dislike of their faith)

    But then this is what we said in 1915 so you're lucky as I think you'd have been put up against a wall and shot as a coward.

    You're loony if you think that hate speech against religion is 'freedom'.
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    (Original post by swiss_cheese)
    You're loony if you think that hate speech against religion is 'freedom'.
    you're a loony if you think hating an ideology is hate speech

    You seem to be mixing terms willy nilliy here

    But again you can't present your own argument as to why you want to remove our freedoms so rather you attack my defense of these freedoms

    This tells me which side you are on
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    Did you read my post? I said that less than 2% of terrorist attacks are carried out by Muslims.

    You just copied and pasted Wikipedia articles telling me that terrorist attacks happen in Iraq and other ME countries. Arr you surprised that terrorist attacks happen in majority-Muslim countries too?
 
 
 
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