When will the religious people realize there is NO afterlife ?

Announcements
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by saran23)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_technology

    Look through the list of all these atheist scientists. Many have lived under this Blasphemy legislation. What is your answer to that?

    “I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds… The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn’t know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God.”

    Einstein

    While I may have been wrong to say Einstein was religious that does not make him an atheist. My view on Einstein is that he was not a spiritualist but a great mind. Even he describes the human mind is limited in understanding the concept of God(in logic). So scientific reasoning will only get you this far. As you claim to be a spiritualist you need to disprove us in the realm of spirituality and not by science. If you call this challenge delusional then spiritual atheists are mad beyond delusional.
    In addition, I also would like to say that there are many forms of Pantheism, it is also an element of Hinduism. Your interpretation of Pantheism is very different to Einstein's.

    What is your precise definition of intellectual dishonesty? You still have not given me an example from my religion(see my previous comment). We Hindus do reason logically as well as spiritually and these two elements are not in conflict with each other. One can only begin to think about intellectual dishonesty only when these listed elements strongly contradict one another(which has not even been the case).
    When will you Hindus realize that your religion is like all other religions - man made fiction.
    There is no god or gods.
    Only atoms.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by saran23)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_technology

    Look through the list of all these atheist scientists. Many have lived under this Blasphemy legislation. What is your answer to that?
    They kept it private so they were not prosecuted or discriminated against. The law is actually less of a force than the culture/environment. If you are born into a highly religious society, you will likely be religious. To be an atheist today is much more likely than, say, in 1816 when it would have been far more radical and risky. The numbers speak for themselves.

    (Original post by saran23)
    While I may have been wrong to say Einstein was religious that does not make him an atheist. My view on Einstein is that the was not a spiritualist but a great mind. Even he describes the human mind is limited in understanding the concept of God(in logic). So scientific reasoning will only get this far. As you claim to be a spiritualist you need to disprove us in the realm of spirituality and not by science. If you cal this challenge delusional then spiritual atheists are mad beyond delusional.
    In addition, I also would like to say that there are many forms of Pantheism, it is also an element of Hinduism. Your interpretation of Pantheism is very different to Einstein's.
    I did not say he was an atheist. He was spiritual and he called this "religious" because he was born in the 19th century. His own views are very confused on the matter but he is absolutely clear that he ridicules the Abrahamic religions as childish stories and does not believe in a personal God. However, as I said, this is irrelevant. We agree that you can be a scientist and be religious. Our disagreement is whether this is logical and consistent.

    Spirituality is simply a feeling of awe and wonder, of understanding yourself, of awareness of your consciousness, of oneness with humanity and the cosmos, etc. These are rational, scientifically explainable feelings and they are enjoyable. Spirituality is still scientific. Carl Sagan speaks of these in terms of his relationship with the universe. Sam Harris speaks of them in terms of his meditation and acute self-awareness.

    (Original post by saran23)
    What is your precise definition of intellectual dishonesty? You still have not given me an example from my religion. We Hindus do reason logically as well as spiritually and these two elements are not in conflict with each other.
    Intellectual dishonesty in this context of a religious scientist is the prioritising of the scientific method in his work and the suspension of it in his religious beliefs. The conflict in all religions between science is the demanding of evidence in the latter but requiring none in the former. The default position of the scientist is to believe only what he can prove and what is beyond reasonable doubt, whereas the theist's default position is to believe what he prefers and demand others disprove him.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ronixvonmelx212)
    When will you Hindus realize that your religion is like all other religions - man made fiction.
    There is no god or gods.
    Only atoms.
    You are just stating an opinion not fact.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by macromicro)
    Why of course? No Abrahamic theist believes their God's existence is symbolic. More to the point, how on earth do you decide whether it is symbolic? It's impossible to assert. What, for example, makes these two statements seem symbolic:

    There is no god but Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

    I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    Bible and Quran consist of two main topics - dogmas, and symbolic meanings. As it was really popular in ancient age to include symbolic meanings in books. It is pure history. That's it.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tamuna10)
    Bible and Quran consist of two main topics - dogmas, and symbolic meanings. As it was really popular in ancient age to include symbolic meanings in books. It is pure history. That's it.
    As far as I can tell, there is no evidence to believe it was all symbolism. The histories of both religions make that very clear; the earliest followers very much took it literally and this was the intended purpose.

    But we are in agreement that neither text has scientific validity and are both fiction.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tamuna10)
    That is what you believe because as I assume you have read none of those religious books and none of the symbolist researchers' notes. Ancient people perceived nature and universe a lot better than we do. Faith isn't something that is needed for someone to survive, it is essential for someone in order to live a normal, peaceful life and not worry about temporary end such as death. Symbolism isn't a stupidity, it is a great form of science that lets people see something from different sides. We need to learn to perceive universe from different sides in order to understand it. Life isn't simple, as well as the environment we live in, although, the laws are pretty simple - believe, and it will become true. That's it. But it is hard to believe, as there shouldn't be even a tiny percent of doubt in order to make your beliefs come true. It works, I can assure you from my own experience.
    Sorry, but that's just nonsense of the highest order. Faith is not essential to lead a happy, peaceful life. Plenty of atheists live content, peaceful lives without having faith in any supernatural agent. It's a gross lie and distorted cliché to claim that those who are godless are all depressed and unhappy with their lives, it's simply not true. And you don't need God to give your life purpose, you can choose what your own purpose in life is.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Sorry, but that's just nonsense of the highest order. Faith is not essential to lead a happy, peaceful life. Plenty of atheists live content, peaceful lives without having faith in any supernatural agent. It's a gross lie and distorted cliché to claim that those who are godless are all depressed and unhappy with their lives, it's simply not true. And you don't need God to give your life purpose, you can choose what your own purpose in life is.
    At least once those atheists will feel depressed, and you know when? When they get old. When they feel they are about to die. They will get scared. I don't say you have to believe exactly in God, but you do have to believe in at least something to have a hope. Without hope, human is nothing other than an animal, acting with instincts. You may count it as nonsense as well, but it's true, just some people can't perceive it well, as they're not yet prepared. Read more, think more, that may lead to further discoveries.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by macromicro)
    As far as I can tell, there is no evidence to believe it was all symbolism. The histories of both religions make that very clear; the earliest followers very much took it literally and this was the intended purpose.

    But we are in agreement that neither text has scientific validity and are both fiction.
    People used Bible and Quran to make other people obey them. That was misusing of those religious books. If people act some way it doesn't mean that's the right way. The ones who wrote Bible were a lot more intelligent, and used many symbols in it. It is clearly shown in the book for those who know symbols.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tamuna10)
    At least once those atheists will feel depressed, and you know when? When they get old. When they feel they are about to die. They will get scared. I don't say you have to believe exactly in God, but you do have to believe in at least something to have a hope. Without hope, human is nothing other than an animal, acting with instincts. You may count it as nonsense as well, but it's true, just some people can't perceive it well, as they're not yet prepared. Read more, think more, that may lead to further discoveries.
    Not true, you are spouting ridiculous and false generalisations. To give one example, the well-known atheist Christopher Hitchens was encouraged to convert when he was dying from cancer and said that the promise of religion seemed even more hollow to him then that it ever had been. He died an atheist and clearly he is not the only one.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tamuna10)
    People used Bible and Quran to make other people obey them. That was misusing of those religious books.
    The texts are orders to be obeyed.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aaliyah Saleh)
    oh for gods sake if our ancestors were monkeys what are we ? flamingos we are not animals and I don't need to know the basics of evolution btw I already know a lot about the evolution since it is just a theory and most of them are wrong one day a scientist thought oh how were did we become on earth and blamed it on monkeys because we have like some similarities that's like saying the sun is ball of fire because it generates heat but its actually just different gases
    You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

    Just because you don't understand something, it doesn't mean that no one else does.

    When an atheist criticises Islam using scripture, Muslims always claim that not just anyone can understand the Quran, you need years of expert training (scholar), that we are displaying ignorance and arrogance to even try.
    Yet Muslims seem quite happy to categorically reject years of expert, evidence-based research because they don't like the sound of it.

    You couldn't make it up, eh?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Not true, you are spouting ridiculous and false generalisations. To give one example, the well-known atheist Christopher Hitchens was encouraged to convert when he was dying from cancer and said that the promise of religion seemed even more hollow to him then that it ever had been. He died an atheist and clearly he is not the only one.
    I don't say people don't die atheists. But nobody knows what is going on in their minds when they die. Some people just spit on everything and don't care if they die. I call those nihilists. That's another disease to be sincere. I know one thing - without hope, belief and brains combined, human is nothing other than animal. And another thing - you can't just assume what you don't see or don't feel doesn't exist. I don't see you in there but I don't assume you don't exist. And I'm right, you do. You can think about everything online that it doesn't exist as in fact it's virtual. In fact, some things do exist. Same is for higher substances, may you call it God or something. Maybe it is just human who isn't prepared to perceive it well, as an ant which can't perceive human well? I assume our brain is far less than God's, the high core's, one. And last - God isn't some bearded guy living in skies who looks down at you, it is a higher energy substance rather, which dwells everywhere. That's it.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by macromicro)
    The texts are orders to be obeyed.
    I told you the part of Bible and Quran is dogmas, other part is symbols. What you say now in fact is the same I said.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tamuna10)
    I don't say people don't die atheists. But nobody knows what is going on in their minds when they die. Some people just spit on everything and don't care if they die. I call those nihilists. That's another disease to be sincere. I know one thing - without hope, belief and brains combined, human is nothing other than animal. And another thing - you can't just assume what you don't see or don't feel doesn't exist. I don't see you in there but I don't assume you don't exist. And I'm right, you do. You can think about everything online that it doesn't exist as in fact it's virtual. In fact, some things do exist. Same is for higher substances, may you call it God or something. Maybe it is just human who isn't prepared to perceive it well, as an ant which can't perceive human well? I assume our brain is far less than God's, the high core's, one. And last - God isn't some bearded guy living in skies who looks down at you, it is a higher energy substance rather, which dwells everywhere. That's it.
    That's just your belief, there is no evidence to prove any kind of God exists, be it anthropomorphic or pantheistic.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    That's just your belief, there is no evidence to prove any kind of God exists, be it anthropomorphic or pantheistic.
    As well as your belief is that there is no God. So we came to the first thing I said in this thread - there is no need of arguing over this topic. The only thing we can do is believe, as we yet don't know, and we can of course keep on researching. Other than that, everything is just a waste of words.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aaliyah Saleh)
    yes he does how is earth in the perfect spot in the solar system to not burn to death or freeze how did earth become made out of just rubble that doesn't make sense because god created it just how this computer I'm writing on was created and not just made out of a random ass false explosion
    Do you have any idea how many sun-like stars there are with planets in the "Goldilocks" zone?
    No?
    Neither do I, because there are soooo many stars and galaxies in the universe that it is a mind bogglingly large number. Astronomers recently discovered one in a relatively close system.
    There are trillions of planets orbiting billions of stars in millions of universes (a conservative estimate). The vast majority of planets are (almost certainly) incapable of supporting life. The fact that a few are capable of supporting life is nothing remarkable, considering the total number of planets. If you bought millions of lottery tickets, you'd expect at least one ticket to win a big prize.
    Note: earth has not won the "jackpot". Most of the earth's surface is inhospitable to human life and the geology and mereorology so unstable that natural catastrophes are a common occurance.

    Plus, we have detailed explanations of how the earth was formed, that are supported by all the evidence. There is zero evidence to support the Islamic creation story.

    Also, do you know what the chances of human life occuring in a planet that is capable of supporting human life is?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Tamuna10)
    As well as your belief is that there is no God. So we came to the first thing I said in this thread - there is no need of arguing over this topic. The only thing we can do is believe, as we yet don't know, and we can of course keep on researching. Other than that, everything is just a waste of words.
    Atheism is the absence of belief, not active disbelief.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hariex)
    If we have a humility about our beliefs - a recognition that we don't have all the answers and a willingness to change our views - respect comes a lot more easily.
    Ironically, what you are describing here is the skeptic who bases his views on evidence-based research.

    It is the religionist who calims certainty and refuses to be swayed by evidence and reason.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aaliyah Saleh)
    jog

    we are not selfish we care because its disrespectful to something we believe and our aim in this temporary life is to get to heaven were we will be reunited with our loved ones and live a happy peaceful life forevermore its based on our true intentions so u can jog on
    See. Selfish self-interest.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    They kept it private so they were not prosecuted or discriminated against. The law is actually less of a force than the culture/environment. If you are born into a highly religious society, you will likely be religious. To be an atheist today is much more likely than, say, in 1816 when it would have been far more radical and risky. The numbers speak for themselves.

    This is very silly. If they kept it private then how do we know about it. These atheist scientists acquired their fame due their work being published. It is ironically(they were/are great people, the irony is in context to this argument) thanks to these scientists contributions which helped shape the modern culture as we see it now(of course other factors were also involved).

    I did not say he was an atheist. He was spiritual and he called this "religious" because he was born in the 19th century. His own views are very confused on the matter but he is absolutely clear that he ridicules the Abrahamic religions as childish stories and does not believe in a personal God. However, as I said, this is irrelevant. We agree that you can be a scientist and be religious. Our disagreement is whether this is logical and consistent.
    Spirituality is simply a feeling of awe and wonder, of understanding yourself, of awareness of your consciousness, of oneness with humanity and the cosmos, etc. These are rational, scientifically explainable feelings and they are enjoyable. Spirituality is still scientific. Carl Sagan speaks of these in terms of his relationship with the universe. Sam Harris speaks of them in terms of his meditation and acute self-awareness.

    My view of spirituality is completely different to yours. Tell me, what is the point of being aware of the cosmos when your spirit will eventually cease to exist? I am also intrigued to know how you perceive the meaning of life to be. Out of all respect, I view your meaning of spirituality to be an exaggeration of the term curiosity. I don't understand how you believe spirituality to be scientific. Where is the end product of spirituality and the feelings we perceive after we die? In the Universe, nothing extinguishes out from reality they just change form. A star dies and its material is scattered across space and time. When one dies their body decomposes and it is recycled on our planet. But the spirit and the abstract feelings where do they go? What is the end product of spirituality?

    Intellectual dishonesty in this context of a religious scientist is the prioritising of the scientific method in his work and the suspension of it in his religious beliefs. The conflict in all religions between science is the demanding of evidence in the latter but requiring none in the former. The default position of the scientist is to believe only what he can prove and what is beyond reasonable doubt, whereas the theist's default position is to believe what he prefers and demand others disprove him.[/QUOTE]

    The term and the meaning of "Intellectual dishonesty" is flawed in this context. Neither I as a scientist nor you can prove or disprove the existence of God using the scientific method as it is impossible. God is outside the realm of science. So how are my personal religious beliefs deterring me away from discovering science fact? You do not have to believe in my religion to believe in my scientific claims. You simply repeat the experiment to check for the reproducibility of the data and hence its reliability. Science is not a one man show, scientists of the modern era work together irrespective of their views on religion and culture. Religious scientists contribute like any other atheist scientist to seek for the correct knowledge. I as a scientist am not conflicted.
 
 
 
Write a reply… Reply
Submit reply

Register

Thanks for posting! You just need to create an account in order to submit the post
  1. this can't be left blank
    that username has been taken, please choose another Forgotten your password?
  2. this can't be left blank
    this email is already registered. Forgotten your password?
  3. this can't be left blank

    6 characters or longer with both numbers and letters is safer

  4. this can't be left empty
    your full birthday is required
  1. Oops, you need to agree to our Ts&Cs to register
  2. Slide to join now Processing…

Updated: September 21, 2016
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Poll
Does your body insecurities make you avoid PE or exercise?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Quick reply
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.