Should women earn as much as men? Watch

flump
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#341
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#341
(Original post by JamieP)
Thats a flawed argument in so many ways I won't even bother to begin.

The only thing you said that I agree with in any way is maternity leave, call me a misogynist if you will, but I don't see why women (or men for that matter if on paternity leave) should continue on full pay for months while adding no value to a business. By all means allow unpaid (or part-paid) leave, and the ability to come back to work after the maternity leave, but why keep on full pay people that are doing nothing for a company?

By and large though, rubbish.
Maternity and paternity pay are rarely full pay, if they are it is part of employment contract agreed by employer/employee. What companies are legally required to pay is much less.
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anyarian
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#342
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#342
(Original post by Sk1lLz)
It is possible to become pregnant accidentally, yes. But if you do, it's your fault (not you specifically). I know, they won't like it but it's true.
also takes a man to get someone pregnant. :rolleyes:
and what about pregnancy due to rape? (esp if no chance to take 72hr pill, due to kidnap or something)

it doesn't matter whether you're a man or woman, it matters how good you are at the job. I've got both male and female teachers, and neither, on average, is better or worse than the other. The two most appauling teachers at my school were (they're no longer there) both men.
the headteacher and deputy head are men, they are both quite incompetant at some of the things that are required of them.
the deputy has to do the school timetable, which he is terrible at.
the previous deputy (a woman) is now part time, after working at our school for 46 years. she did the timetable brilliantly.
but then the female graphics teacher is far worse than the male graphics teacher.

stop hiding behind excuses about maternity leave so that you can try and make sure women cannot be independant, or equal to men.
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_Hayko
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#343
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#343
(Original post by anyarian)
Oh I see.
well my name isn't anyarian. it's my nickname. though it is based on my real name. which is actually russian. So i suppose you weren't far off, to be fair. especially as you were going on a nickname.
well, thanks for telling me about Armenians and where they come from.
He he, your nickname not only ends like most Armenian surnames (ian or yan), but it also sounds Armenian too.
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anyarian
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#344
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#344
(Original post by _Hayko)
He he, your nickname not only ends like most Armenian surnames (ian or yan), but it also sounds Armenian too.
lol! this is totally new to me! whenever i tell people my (real) name, they tend to guess eastern europe, but i've never heard armenian specifically!
well you learn something new everyday! how is it that everyone but me on here knows what an armenian name is like?
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Reblet
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#345
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#345
(Original post by Bornstubborn)
So i take it you are an expert on the genetic variations in intelligence? I have never heard of asian women out doing all groups, i thought asian men outdo all groups

How can IQ tests favour one group.

I think its clear men out do women in the work place, otherwise women would be at the top giving women the best money and men would be whining about how we make less.
I don't claim to be an expert on genetic variations in intelligence. However, anybody who has even read up on IQ tests or done Psychology at any level know how flawed IQ tests are. Especially the one in this test where spatial ability is considered part of intelligence. It is a well measured and documented fact that women have poorer spatial awareness. Yet what exactly does this contribute to IQ? And asian women consistently achieve the highest results in the American SATs tests which take a similar form to IQ tests.

How can IQ tests favour one group? Are you really too slow to work this one out? If I was being stereotypical I could use this example:
VERBAL ABILITY:
Cricket is to ball as hockey is to:
a) Shuttlecock
b) Ball
c) Puck
d) Marble
More men would be likely to know the answer (I know it's a very easy example but it is meant to be a simplifed example). It's similar to the example of the American SATs test which discriminates against lower-class students:
VERBAL ABILITY:
Runner is to race as boat is to:
a) Match
b) Regatta
c) Regalia
d) Game
Middle-class students consistently got this question right yet lower-classes did not.

You have ignored the point made in the article that women actually out-perform men. You are bigoted and it is pointless to argue with someone so set in their ways. Prove that women are out-done by men. Give me some proper evidence not some half-baked article about IQ.
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flump
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#346
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#346
(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I think the notion of maternity leave is often looked at from the point of the employee by most women. Consider the idea of maternity leave from the view of an employer....

As an employer you will be paying someone to essentially do nothing that benefits the company, for a small business this is impossible and even in a large business it makes the company less comeptitive to have many high paid female staff taking maternity leave.

If i were an employer i'd be vary wary of employing women of child rearing age.

I wonder if a woman could apply for a job, get the job and then straight away take maternity leave. That is essentially theft.
Have you thought of looking at the legislation on maternity leave before jumping to conclusions? I work in HR, in my company we don't look at maternity leave as a problem, it actually costs us very little (have a look at what women actually get paid and what companies can reclaim), we work hard to arrange suitable flexible working for returning moms but then we do that for dads, peope who would like to continue their studies, people who care for disabled relatives in fact a long list of reasons why people take time off or work part time.

Do you think people who smoke should get paid less - they probably suffer more chest infections. How about people who do contact sports - time off for injuries?

You really are looking at this in a very narrow way and you haven't considered the facts about maternity pay. By the way in my work I haven't found women take more time off due to family issues but maybe I work with enlightened people who share responsibilities.
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Bornstubborn
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#347
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#347
(Original post by Reblet)
I don't claim to be an expert on genetic variations in intelligence. However, anybody who has even read up on IQ tests or done Psychology at any level know how flawed IQ tests are. Especially the one in this test where spatial ability is considered part of intelligence. It is a well measured and documented fact that women have poorer spatial awareness. Yet what exactly does this contribute to IQ? And asian women consistently achieve the highest results in the American SATs tests which take a similar form to IQ tests.

How can IQ tests favour one group? Are you really too slow to work this one out? If I was being stereotypical I could use this example:
VERBAL ABILITY:
Cricket is to ball as hockey is to:
a) Shuttlecock
b) Ball
c) Puck
d) Marble
More men would be likely to know the answer (I know it's a very easy example but it is meant to be a simplifed example). It's similar to the example of the American SATs test which discriminates against lower-class students:
VERBAL ABILITY:
Runner is to race as boat is to:
a) Match
b) Regatta
c) Regalia
d) Game
Middle-class students consistently got this question right yet lower-classes did not.

You have ignored the point made in the article that women actually out-perform men. You are bigoted and it is pointless to argue with someone so set in their ways. Prove that women are out-done by men. Give me some proper evidence not some half-baked article about IQ.
To be honest i think it is obvious men are more intelligent than women. The domination in the work palce, the domination in science, the higher IQ ratings, the domination in maths, the success in business, the inventions the discoveries.
Women could easily out perform men in business but they fail to do so.

That article is as good as any. You can dismiss it all day.

I have never heard of Asian women dominating on the contrary i have heard of asian men dominating in education.

Out of curiosity what is your IQ rating? I consistently score within the high 130's, how about you ? They say 125+ is a first class level student. I got a first class, grade point 15 for the year just gone.
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ThePenguinMafia
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#348
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#348
(Original post by Malinski)
What does QFT stand for?
Quoted for truth.

I forget that not everybody is as big a nerd as me.
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flump
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#349
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#349
(Original post by Bornstubborn)
To be honest i think it is obvious men are more intelligent than women. The domination in the work palce, the domination in science, the higher IQ ratings, the domination in maths, the success in business, the inventions the discoveries.
Women could easily out perform men in business but they fail to do so.

That article is as good as any. You can dismiss it all day.

I have never heard of Asian women dominating on the contrary i have heard of asian men dominating in education.

Out of curiosity what is your IQ rating? I consistently score within the high 130's, how about you ?
With your IQ you should find it easy to look up the real facts about maternity pay. By the way the last person I knew who consistently scored over 130 in IQ test was in care.
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Bornstubborn
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#350
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#350
(Original post by flump)
With your IQ you should find it easy to look up the real facts about maternity pay. By the way the last person I knew who consistently scored over 130 in IQ test was in care.
I haven't researched maternity pay much. I do recall reading awhile ago an attempt to increase paternity pay but it was rejected due to making British business less competitive.

Many people are in care, are you expecting me to assume this person has mental problems.
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flump
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#351
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#351
(Original post by Elipsis)
There is a fixed rate of pay for everything. A fixed rate of bonus and so on. There are of course scenarios where men are more demanding and can negotiate better pay than their female counterparts, and for this skill they are rewarded accordingly.
I am female and the mother of two (had my first at 18) I work fulltime on a flexible basis and I earn more than any of the men on my level in my company. I know this because of my role in HR (I don't think they know ) Why do I get paid more? Because the boss values me and thinks I'm worth it.
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Hopping Mad Kangaroo
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#352
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#352
(Original post by Bornstubborn)
To be honest i think it is obvious men are more intelligent than women. The domination in the work palce, the domination in science, the higher IQ ratings, the domination in maths, the success in business, the inventions the discoveries.
Women could easily out perform men in business but they fail to do so.

That article is as good as any. You can dismiss it all day.

I have never heard of Asian women dominating on the contrary i have heard of asian men dominating in education.

Out of curiosity what is your IQ rating? I consistently score within the high 130's, how about you ? They say 125+ is a first class level student. I got a first class, grade point 15 for the year just gone.
Ha having a high IQ might be all good, but can you apply it? After all intelligence is useless if you cannot use it.

Though if you are so smart why are you arguing in this thread? Scared that the women might catch up and overtake you?
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flump
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#353
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#353
(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I haven't researched maternity pay much. I do recall reading awhile ago an attempt to increase paternity pay but it was rejected due to making British business less competitive.

Many people are in care, are you expecting me to assume this person has mental problems.
If you do research maternity pay you will find it is not full pay and isn't even all paid if you take maximum time. Also the company can reclaim 92% of what they pay or 100% for smaller companies.

I'm not expecting you to assume anything, the fact is she is unable to live independently due to personality disorder. High IQ does not necessarily reflect your earning capacity.
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Reblet
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#354
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#354
Anecdotal evidence means nothing. Can you not grasp this concept? Men do dominate the workplace as more women take part-time jobs/leave careers etc. to raise children. Men dominate maths and science? So? What does that prove? That is not the exclusive important occupation you know. In fact Medicine is arguably the most important and is getting more and more populated by WOMEN. It will take time for women to fliter into engineering etc. as in the scheme of things there hasn't been the opportunity for women to do so for very long.

That article proves one thing: In one test with a defined "IQ" measure men out-performed women yet the conclusion drawn is that women work better and harder. So what is the point you are trying to make with it? Where is evidence that men out-perform women in the workplace? How can I make this any easier for you to understand? You consistently miss the point.

Well done for scoring in the 130s, that is very respectable. I have taken two official IQ tests in my life, both I scored in the top 1/2 percent of the population (above what you need to get into mensa). However, as I think IQ tests are rubbish I don't consider that proof of my intelligence and I certainly wouldn't class myself as genius.

If you're saying that pay should be based on value of output then I agree: those who work harder and work better deserve more pay. BUT that is not how the system works at the moment. Men are not paid more because they are "better" they are paid more because they will push for higher pay and because women are paid less because of the chances of them leaving or going part time. If, as you suggest by your IQ, you are an intelligent boy then you should accept that the current system is unfair. There are waster men and waster women in business who deserve less pay than hard-workers. BUT there is no proof that more men/women are better in the workplace. People hired into similar jobs will be at a similar level of ability therefore you expect that if a woman is hired she will be as able as a man hired. Have you ever worked in a high-pressure office? Have you got any proof women are less sucessful than men there?
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Bornstubborn
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#355
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#355
(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Ha having a high IQ might be all good, but can you apply it? After all intelligence is useless if you cannot use it.

Though if you are so smart why are you arguing in this thread? Scared that the women might catch up and overtake you?
I can't walk right now (got a health problem), so i have to make entertainment for myself.

I am not sure if i would be bothered if women earned more than men, as long as i got what i wanted, should i care about other men who make less. Not sure.
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Reblet
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#356
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#356
(Original post by Hopping Mad Kangaroo)
Ha having a high IQ might be all good, but can you apply it? After all intelligence is useless if you cannot use it.

Though if you are so smart why are you arguing in this thread? Scared that the women might catch up and overtake you?
HMK I don't want to scare you... But I think we might be on the same side! :eek:
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Reblet
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#357
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#357
(Original post by Bornstubborn)
I can't walk right now (got a health problem), so i have to make entertainment for myself.

I am not sure if i would be bothered if women earned more than men, as long as i got what i wanted, should i care about other men who make less. Not sure.
A lesser person would comment on your usefulness to a company with a health problem being equal to the usefulness of women... But I am not such. Hope you feel better soon.
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jamesjenkinsy
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#358
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#358
The question isn't really, should women earn as much as men.

The question is, is their economic worth lower because of the possiblity of maturnity leave. The answer to that is probably, productivity wise.

The solution: give men and women the same amount of leave.
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Bornstubborn
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#359
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#359
(Original post by Reblet)
A lesser person would comment on your usefulness to a company with a health problem being equal to the usefulness of women... But I am not such. Hope you feel better soon.
Haha, i have a physical job so i cannot work right now. It is ok i have lots of money, money is not the most important thing. Only when you have no money does it become an issue.

Haha, thanks.
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Em_maK
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#360
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#360
I wish in this day and age gender wouldn't play a part in employment.

anyway.

of course they [we] should.
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