The Commons Bar Mk IX - MHoC Chat Thread Watch

This discussion is closed.
Jean-Luc Picard
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#3621
Report 4 years ago
#3621
(Original post by RayApparently)
You don't trust a lot of decent people then who believe that making the country a bit better is better than protest voting. In fairness I don't trust the RL Greens because I don't believe they have any intention of following up on any of their promises.

Well the first Green-led government didn't do much Green stuff... and now they're re-promising to cap carbon emissions.
I don't trust people who pander to UKIP on immigration & the Tories on "forcing people to work" & who run scared of the Right Wing Press all the time. we do have every intention of following up on them actually, our MP has shown that this parliament even, if you actually listen to anything Green party members say you will hear from them far more passion than most Labourites can must in a lifetime. but if you want to be afraid of passion & think that you can do anything worthwhile whilst worshipping the broken Westminster hegemony then by all means keep fiddling while Rome burns around you.

to be fair we had no leader for part of it and we were in a coalition that has parties in it who quite clearly don't share the radical eco-friendly agenda we do.
0
JoeL1994
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3622
Report 4 years ago
#3622
(Original post by Aph)
Surely political belief is party of philosophical belief?
'Fraid not.
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3623
Report 4 years ago
#3623
(Original post by JoeL1994)
'Fraid not.
Oh, ok I'd argue it does but ok...
0
JoeL1994
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3624
Report 4 years ago
#3624
(Original post by Aph)
Oh, ok I'd argue it does but ok...
In fact if it wasn't 2am I'd find you the case studies where people haven't been able to argue for being dismissed on the grounds of supporting the BNP through the Equality Act but it's too late and they're in my pile of college stuff somewhere :P

Besides, if there's alcohol at a reduced price, I'll always argue for it
0
RayApparently
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#3625
Report 4 years ago
#3625
(Original post by Jean-Luc Picard)
I don't trust people who pander to UKIP on immigration & the Tories on "forcing people to work" & who run scared of the Right Wing Press all the time. we do have every intention of following up on them actually, our MP has shown that this parliament even, if you actually listen to anything Green party members say you will hear from them far more passion than most Labourites can must in a lifetime. but if you want to be afraid of passion & think that you can do anything worthwhile whilst worshipping the broken Westminster hegemony then by all means keep fiddling while Rome burns around you.

to be fair we had no leader for part of it and we were in a coalition that has parties in it who quite clearly don't share the radical eco-friendly agenda we do.
I don't recall pandering to the Tories and UKIP, I do recall attending a Labour party meeting for the abolition of university tuition fees, supporting the informal 'Red Labour' group that wishes to cancel Trident renewal and canvassing with co-operative party members.

I know a lot of people as anti-Westminster as you but you're particularly bitter about it.

You had a Minister for the Environment and it wasn't Labour or the Liberal's job to pass your pledges. It just seems strange to promise the same thing again when you were in a position to do it with a hundred word SOI last term.

PS. The fiddle hadn't been invented in Nero's time. A more fitting analogy is that Labour's trying to put out the fire and the Greens are sitting there complaining that the hose isn't big enough.
0
Aph
Badges: 22
Rep:
?
#3626
Report 4 years ago
#3626
(Original post by JoeL1994)
In fact if it wasn't 2am I'd find you the case studies where people haven't been able to argue for being dismissed on the grounds of supporting the BNP through the Equality Act but it's too late and they're in my pile of college stuff somewhere :P

Besides, if there's alcohol at a reduced price, I'll always argue for it
But it was held up by the European court of human rights.
0
JoeL1994
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#3627
Report 4 years ago
#3627
(Original post by Aph)
But it was held up by the European court of human rights.
Not British law though.
0
Blue Meltwater
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3628
Report 4 years ago
#3628
(Original post by RayApparently)
I don't recall pandering to the Tories and UKIP, I do recall attending a Labour party meeting for the abolition of university tuition fees, supporting the informal 'Red Labour' group that wishes to cancel Trident renewal and canvassing with co-operative party members
I'm glad there are voices in the party calling for these policies, but do you think there's a realistic chance of the party leadership actually taking them on?
0
RayApparently
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#3629
Report 4 years ago
#3629
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
I'm glad there are voices in the party calling for these policies, but do you think there's a realistic chance of the party leadership actually taking them on?
More realistic than the Greens getting elected.
0
Jean-Luc Picard
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#3630
Report 4 years ago
#3630
(Original post by RayApparently)
I don't recall pandering to the Tories and UKIP, I do recall attending a Labour party meeting for the abolition of university tuition fees, supporting the informal 'Red Labour' group that wishes to cancel Trident renewal and canvassing with co-operative party members.

I know a lot of people as anti-Westminster as you but you're particularly bitter about it.

You had a Minister for the Environment and it wasn't Labour or the Liberal's job to pass your pledges. It just seems strange to promise the same thing again when you were in a position to do it with a hundred word SOI last term.

PS. The fiddle hadn't been invented in Nero's time.
your party does, or do you not pay attention to anything Ed Milliband says when you vote for him? that would explain a lot actually now I think about it. and how will they gain traction when candidate selection is set by the right wing leadership and when you have no internal democratic process to move them into power? pixie dust? the Greens are ALREADY Left Wing, we don't need a small group of backbenchers to constantly bang their heads against the leaderships wall to try and make us so.

maybe because I see what it has done to people & give a feck about the lives it ruins?

I didn't say it was, just pointed out the realities of being in a coalition and having had no leader for part of the term, do Labour always pass everything in their manifesto? if so please prove every single one of your manifesto pledges was brought to vote in every single parliament on here or stfu

if it had been then no doubt the person responsible would be a hero to most Labourites.
0
Jean-Luc Picard
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#3631
Report 4 years ago
#3631
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
I'm glad there are voices in the party calling for these policies, but do you think there's a realistic chance of the party leadership actually taking them on?
*looks at history books* not without huge social uprisings calling for it as well, no.

(Original post by RayApparently)
More realistic than the Greens getting elected.
um, we already have been elected; 1 MP, 3 MEP's, many councillors
0
Blue Meltwater
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3632
Report 4 years ago
#3632
(Original post by RayApparently)
More realistic than the Greens getting elected.
So very likely!

I think I'd just find it very frustrating being in a party where you're constantly battling to get the party leadership to represent your views. But maybe I'm overestimating the entrenched Blairism of Labour today - I certainly hope you're able to see some success.
0
Blue Meltwater
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3633
Report 4 years ago
#3633
(Original post by Jean-Luc Picard)
*looks at history books* not without huge social uprisings calling for it as well, no.



um, we already have been elected; 1 MP, 3 MEP's, many councillors
As well as two members of the London Assembly, and we're projected to win an AM in Wales and at least eight MSPs in Scotland next year!
0
RayApparently
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#3634
Report 4 years ago
#3634
(Original post by Jean-Luc Picard)
your party does, or do you not pay attention to anything Ed Milliband says when you vote for him? that would explain a lot actually now I think about it. and how will they gain traction when candidate selection is set by the right wing leadership and when you have no internal democratic process to move them into power? pixie dust? the Greens are ALREADY Left Wing, we don't need a small group of backbenchers to constantly bang their heads against the leaderships wall to try and make us so.

maybe because I see what it has done to people & give a feck about the lives it ruins?

I didn't say it was, just pointed out the realities of being in a coalition and having had no leader for part of the term, do Labour always pass everything in their manifesto? if so please prove every single one of your manifesto pledges was brought to vote in every single parliament on here or stfu

if it had been then no doubt the person responsible would be a hero to most Labourites.
Don't blame me for what my party does, when I'm on the right side of the internal debate.

How can you talk about backbenchers and democratic processes when you have 1 MP? Does she canvass herself?

Labour will make people's lives better as it has done throughout history. The Greens, because they don't plan on winning, will promise the world and leave us with Cameron.

If we actually win the election we will put forward a bill or SOI for every one of our pledges which is why we detailed them so clearly. I have no idea how well TSR Labour did passing pledges in manifestos previous to my time here.

And its not about putting 'every single thing' forward. Its about the Green party not doing anything Green and then once more going into an election on the Green ticket.
0
RayApparently
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#3635
Report 4 years ago
#3635
(Original post by Blue Meltwater)
So very likely!

I think I'd just find it very frustrating being in a party where you're constantly battling to get the party leadership to represent your views. But maybe I'm overestimating the entrenched Blairism of Labour today - I certainly hope you're able to see some success.
It would be helpful if you lot decided not to legalise ISIS membership and just joined us.
0
RayApparently
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#3636
Report 4 years ago
#3636
(Original post by Jean-Luc Picard)
um, we already have been elected; 1 MP, 3 MEP's, many councillors
That response says it all really.
0
Jean-Luc Picard
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#3637
Report 4 years ago
#3637
(Original post by RayApparently)
Don't blame me for what my party does, when I'm on the right side of the internal debate.

How can you talk about backbenchers and democratic processes when you have 1 MP? Does she canvass herself?

Labour will make people's lives better as it has done throughout history. The Greens, because they don't plan on winning, will promise the world and leave us with Cameron.

If we actually win the election we will put forward a bill or SOI for every one of our pledges which is why we detailed them so clearly. I have no idea how well TSR Labour did passing pledges in manifestos previous to my time here.

And its not about putting 'every single thing' forward. Its about the Green party not doing anything Green and then once more going into an election on the Green ticket.
it says a lot that your party needs an internal debate about something as fundamental as it's ideological grounding.

because the Green Party is democratic and all our policies and such are decided by members rather than by a right wing policy committee?

the only people likely to "leave us with Cameron" are Labour after Ed foolishly ruled out the only deal that could see him gain power - one with the SNP. so please do can it. as for making lives better, you generally do the bare minimum on that unless there is huge pressure from society to do more like 1945 or the 60's...since when is it bad to want more than the bare minimum? voting Green won't mean our MP's handing Cameron a 2nd term, voting Labour almost certainly now will.

I will hold you to that then, and if you don't know your own record then isn't it a bit rich to criticise another parties record?

there is more to being Green than just environmental policy, something you would understand if you had any interest in Green politics yourself
0
Blue Meltwater
Badges: 3
Rep:
?
#3638
Report 4 years ago
#3638
(Original post by RayApparently)
It would be helpful if you lot decided not to legalise ISIS membership and just joined us.
Why should we be expected to join a party which appears to hold significantly different views and values to our own?
0
Jean-Luc Picard
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#3639
Report 4 years ago
#3639
(Original post by RayApparently)
It would be helpful if you lot decided not to legalise ISIS membership and just joined us.
1) that's not the policy, both organisations are already illegal under international laws and thus specifically would not be joinable.

2) we don't believe in punishing people harshly for thought crimes as that will likely just lead to real crimes, but if you want 1984 as your manifesto by all means whine about it.

3) so we can do what? sit on our asses complaining about the party leadership whilst no major reforms to the UK's badly broken political system ever happen? I'll pass thanks.

(Original post by RayApparently)
That response says it all really.
lol, okay, sorry to bring facts into a debate
0
RayApparently
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#3640
Report 4 years ago
#3640
(Original post by Jean-Luc Picard)
it says a lot that your party needs an internal debate about something as fundamental as it's ideological grounding.

because the Green Party is democratic and all our policies and such are decided by members rather than by a right wing policy committee?

the only people likely to "leave us with Cameron" are Labour after Ed foolishly ruled out the only deal that could see him gain power - one with the SNP. so please do can it. as for making lives better, you generally do the bare minimum on that unless there is huge pressure from society to do more like 1945 or the 60's...since when is it bad to want more than the bare minimum? voting Green won't mean our MP's handing Cameron a 2nd term, voting Labour almost certainly now will.

I will hold you to that then, and if you don't know your own record then isn't it a bit rich to criticise another parties record?

there is more to being Green than just environmental policy, something you would understand if you had any interest in Green politics yourself
Can't be that democratic if there's no internal debate.

Ed did what he had to do. It was the right choice, the SNP, like virtually all nationalists (UKIP and the DUP included), shouldn't be in government. You're talking nonsense, Labour's done amazing things as well as answered the calls of the people. You need popular support to make dramatic changes happen. Its called democracy.

The comment about records is provocatively stupid. I'm commenting on what happened this term, irrespective of previous terms (I don't need to cross-reference hansard with all the previous party manifestos to qualify to tell you when you didn't meet a pledge). I know Labour's record for this term well.

I'm well aware that there's more to the Green Party than environmental policy, my initial comment was that your environmental policy was lack lustre which I then defended. I'm reasonably informed on both Green Party policy and environmental policy.
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Have you made up your mind on your five uni choices?

Yes I know where I'm applying (154)
59.46%
No I haven't decided yet (60)
23.17%
Yes but I might change my mind (45)
17.37%

Watched Threads

View All