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    Would be lucky to finish above 8th. May even finish bottom half. Can't see us winning Europa, so no Europe next season unless we win League cup/fa cup. Even that would be tough with lower league sides turning up. and we got West Ham next who done double if we beat Exeter in FA cup.
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    (Original post by Pn94)
    I don't think he does - he's not ideal but he's an easy scapegoat. Barring City away and Arsenal, where have we looked good where he hasn't played? Watford pumelled us with Lallana, Coutinho and Firmino upfront. Without Benteke's contribution we'd be sitting in the lower half of the table.

    We didn't outplay Manchester United, they play like that every game. We were devoid of any tempo and creativity and created no clear cut chances.
    I'm not saying Benteke is a bad player but he doesn't work with the rest of our players in attack.

    Southampton in the League Cup - we won without Benteke
    Stoke in League Cup - did well without Benteke

    WBA - we drew with Benteke
    West Ham - we lost with Benteke

    Anyway the Watford loss was as much to do with our poor defence/ability to stop a big/strong target man. There are more flaws that just the attack in this side.

    I think most people will say we were the better side and should have won. Even the stats show that.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    I'm not saying Benteke is a bad player but he doesn't work with the rest of our players in attack.

    Southampton in the League Cup - we won without Benteke
    Stoke in League Cup - did well without Benteke

    WBA - we drew with Benteke
    West Ham - we lost with Benteke

    Anyway the Watford loss was as much to do with our poor defence/ability to stop a big/strong target man. There are more flaws that just the attack in this side.

    I think most people will say we were the better side and should have won. Even the stats show that.
    But he scores goals. Firmino/Milner/Lallana don't.

    As I said, he isn't ideal nor he is going to be our fulcrum in the long term, but we don't have a better alternative right now.
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    (Original post by Pn94)
    But he scores goals. Firmino/Milner/Lallana don't.

    As I said, he isn't ideal nor he is going to be our fulcrum in the long term, but we don't have a better alternative right now.
    Would be interesting to see what Benteke's conversion rate is and how many chances our side creates with him in/out of the side.

    Yea Fimino doesn't seem any more likely to score than Benteke. Shame Origi is out otherwise I think he would've gotten a proper run in the side.
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    Think it's safe to say Klopp has a huge rebuilding job on his hands this summer. We were utter **** and a good team would have beaten us 3-0.

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    Brendon's interview on sky sports. Meh not impressed tbh.
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    There isn't need for a massive ****fest over this. Defeats to United always feel the worst.

    We've been conceding set pieces for fun since Rafa left, Klopp isn't going to turn around 5 years of ********ery in 5 months, especially not with a keeper like Mignolet and a CB duo that changes every game. Conceding from a set piece isn't really the issue.

    The main problem is the lack of goals, and the blame has to be on Henderson, Milner and Lallana. Lallana doesn't get into goalscoring positions and he also doesn't score them. Milner's role isn't really to get in them, he definitely doesn't score them, and he also doesn't contribute to the technical attacking play. Henderson does everything well except finish (absolute lols that some would have him at number 10). A better player than Henderson would have finished at least one of his chances today, and we're paying for that.

    Firmino is a creater, not a scorer, and created just fine for us today. Trying to blame him for anything is retarded, he created 5 chances today, including a 1 on 1 for Henderson with a flick in the box, a free shot from 18 yards for Henderson (after making a run and holding off 3 United players), and a 50 yard volleyed pass that set Milner up too. Pick better targets.

    As for Benteke, in 9 games that we've started him, we've scored 10 goals, the only time we've scored two being the Origi equaliser against West Brom. We play better and score better without him starting and that's a fact.
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    Firmino, Sakho, Lucas come out of today looking pretty good. Milner can't be starting in the front three anymore, Lallana needs upgrading this summer too. You are definitely being a whopper if you're looking at Klopp to blame.
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    It pisses me off when people look at our results under Rodgers and Klopp and genuinely ask whether we think things are better now. Of course they bloody are.

    Did people honestly think that as soon as Klopp came in, we'd instantly turn in to exactly what we need without spending a penny?
    The man has had absolutely no preparation, no money and has come in to the most competitive league in the world with a set of half injured players, none of whom know his systems. He doesn't have a single Dortmund player who can help the others adapt to his playing style. He has come in as blind as it gets, yet people still expect he'll do better than a man who had several years and over £200m to spend.

    As soon as Rodgers got sacked, this season was always going to be a write off. If we just so happened to click under Klopp and achieve top 4, that would've been outstanding but is anybody honestly surprised that it looks like we won't?
    People may criticise Klopp but they must understand that in a matter of months, the man has made us the most creative team in the league, statistically speaking. We create the most chances and have the most shots in the league - how can the man possibly do more than that?
    It's up to the players to finish the many chances that are made, not Klopp.

    I guess the silver lining of top 4 being (more or less) unreachable is that we can put absolutely everything in to the League Cup and Europa League. The latter would be extremely hard to win, but it's a CL place so we really have to go all out.
    Klopp as our manager gives us much more pull than under Rodgers in general. If we had CL football on top of that, I'd expect a very exciting summer.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    Think it's safe to say Klopp has a huge rebuilding job on his hands this summer. We were utter **** and a good team would have beaten us 3-0.

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    We've ended up needing a major rebuild every summer since Hodgson came in and signed **** like Konchesky and Poulsen. We ended up losing most of our best players all the time after that and our rate of success with new signings was probably worse than 1 in 3?
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    We've ended up needing a major rebuild every summer since Hodgson came in and signed **** like Konchesky and Poulsen. We ended up losing most of our best players all the time after that and our rate of success with new signings was probably worse than 1 in 3?
    You need to ditch that stupid transfer committee. I refuse to believe Klopp had anything to do with signing Steven Caulker
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
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    Feels like your exaggerating valid factors in order to unnecessarily write off the entire season.

    This current squad, even though this Klopp's first season, has pulled of some pretty big results and put in excellent performances worthy of a top four team you can't on the other hand say "Oh, we lost. Not Klopp's fault at all, hasn't had any time" When you nearly overwhelmed Arsenal few days ago with the same injury hit team.

    I get that this is a transition season but he took over with 30 PL games left, top four was and is still achievable.
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    Where to start then, eh?

    I usually distance myself from TSR straight after a match, and post elongated thoughts. But this week, I won't. Namely, because I'm surprised to say that my thoughts right now at 9pm are exactly the same as at full-time.

    I've got one thought: we need a goalscorer. It doesn't even have to be a striker, though that would help. It merely needs to be a match-winner.

    I look at our first-team today, and there's a lack of goalscorers. Firmino may get you a pearler, like on Wednesday night against Arsenal, but he's new to the PL and raw and doesn't need to be a first port of call for any club. He needs to be your third or fourth most likely goalscorer, in truth. Lallana hasn't scored in months, seemingly, and Henderson/Milner will only get you five a season - maybe slightly more.

    Aside from that, we had nothing. It's great being great in the middle of the pitch. It's wonderful. It's great to watch. Arsenal spent a decade doing that. They were a beautiful footballing side, and many pundits' darlings, but they didn't win anything. And we won't win anything with this current side. Why? Because - like that Arsenal side - we aren't good enough where it matters: in each final third. We're great in the middle third, and terrible in the other two.

    We can't defend. We can't defend set-pieces especially, and it was all so familiar today. it was Groundhog Day, and utterly predictable. Fellaini sets up a Rooney winner from a corner. I saw that telegraphed from minute one, for Christ's sake. That's SEVEN corners we've conceded from this season, and follows a long run of poor defended set-pieces at Anfield: Southampton, WBA, Palace.

    It's worth remembering that Klopp needs a transfer window. We can't judge him with these players. The tactics are spot on - we get close to the goal and set up the chances - we just can't execute it properly. We need to be judging Klopp in May 2017, in truth.

    Also remember that Wenger came in at Arsenal mid-season, and the Gunners were mediocre. Just like we are now. What did he do? He went out and signed Petit, Anelka, Overmars. What happened next? They won the league.

    I'm not saying we'll win the league next season - but I'm saying there's hope we can be better and more fluid and more decisive, and more importantly, better in both penalty boxes.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    You need to ditch that stupid transfer committee. I refuse to believe Klopp had anything to do with signing Steven Caulker
    He's their new star striker, of course Klopp had everything to do with it.
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    (Original post by sr90)
    You need to ditch that stupid transfer committee. I refuse to believe Klopp had anything to do with signing Steven Caulker
    Hard to judge. Depending on which source you read, the players that the transfer committee picked have tended to the successful ones whereas the ones that Rodgers picked were more flops/overpriced/from PL.

    Caulker signing isnt the world in the world since it's just a 6 month loan. Not sure how much involvement Klopp had at Dortmund for transfers? A lot of European managers are happy not having total control over everything.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    It pisses me off when people look at our results under Rodgers and Klopp and genuinely ask whether we think things are better now. Of course they bloody are.

    Did people honestly think that as soon as Klopp came in, we'd instantly turn in to exactly what we need without spending a penny?
    The man has had absolutely no preparation, no money and has come in to the most competitive league in the world with a set of half injured players, none of whom know his systems. He doesn't have a single Dortmund player who can help the others adapt to his playing style. He has come in as blind as it gets, yet people still expect he'll do better than a man who had several years and over £200m to spend.

    As soon as Rodgers got sacked, this season was always going to be a write off. If we just so happened to click under Klopp and achieve top 4, that would've been outstanding but is anybody honestly surprised that it looks like we won't?
    People may criticise Klopp but they must understand that in a matter of months, the man has made us the most creative team in the league, statistically speaking. We create the most chances and have the most shots in the league - how can the man possibly do more than that?
    It's up to the players to finish the many chances that are made, not Klopp.

    I guess the silver lining of top 4 being (more or less) unreachable is that we can put absolutely everything in to the League Cup and Europa League. The latter would be extremely hard to win, but it's a CL place so we really have to go all out.
    Klopp as our manager gives us much more pull than under Rodgers in general. If we had CL football on top of that, I'd expect a very exciting summer.
    Yeah but are things really better now?

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    (Original post by sevchenko)
    Feels like your exaggerating valid factors in order to unnecessarily write off the entire season.

    This current squad, even though this Klopp's first season, has pulled of some pretty big results and put in excellent performances worthy of a top four team you can't on the other hand say "Oh, we lost. Not Klopp's fault at all, hasn't had any time" When you nearly overwhelmed Arsenal few days ago with the same injury hit team.

    I get that this is a transition season but he took over with 30 PL games left, top four was and is still achievable.
    Whilst I understand what you mean, I don't agree.

    It's quite clear that Klopp has an uncanny ability to make the players perform well above expected level in rival games. Even today - although we couldn't convert, several players (Sakho, Lucas, Firmino) still played really well and we created a massive amount of chances.
    Whether it's players trying to impress the new manager in the big games or it's an input from Klopp (most likely a combination of both), we seem to be able to produce the goods in the big games.
    We do however revert back to our general uselessness in other games that we should win.

    A new manager can only do so much - if you look at Spurs you see a side that sometimes stumbles but never too much. They always keep themselves in check and there's a frightening level of consistency in their play, especially this season, especially now their manager has had a good few years with them.
    Liverpool on the other hand have been perhaps the most inconsistent/unpredictable side in the Premier League for many years now. We never know which Liverpool is coming out to play. When the match began earlier, it looked like it would be the same Liverpool we saw against City/Chelsea.
    It wasn't.

    In the big games we have displayed a side that can rival any in the league, however in the others we have displayed a side that would never get close to top 4. Top 4 was achievable when Klopp took over, but it was more hope than expectation. We've played some great games against City, Chelsea and Arsenal but I feel like this is a bit of a reality check for us.
    We won't reach where we want to be unless we make signings and today was a painful example of where we need one the most.
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    (Original post by hayles101)
    Yeah but are things really better now?

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    I'm sorry, I don't associate myself with people who lost their YouTube fame :awesome:
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    Really good interview with BR on Goals on Sunday today. He acted pretty classy throughout, and didn't have a bad word to say about Liverpool, our fans, or our staff - past or present. I hope he finds work soon.
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    (Original post by sevchenko)
    Feels like your exaggerating valid factors in order to unnecessarily write off the entire season.

    This current squad, even though this Klopp's first season, has pulled of some pretty big results and put in excellent performances worthy of a top four team you can't on the other hand say "Oh, we lost. Not Klopp's fault at all, hasn't had any time" When you nearly overwhelmed Arsenal few days ago with the same injury hit team.

    I get that this is a transition season but he took over with 30 PL games left, top four was and is still achievable
    .
    The highlighted bit is what jars me. We won't even finish 7th the way we're going, which is frankly awful. In the short term I expected a small improvement on Rodgers, at least - but we find ourselves unable to string any form of consistency together.

    I have faith in Klopp but the honeymoon period is well and truly over.
 
 
 
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