Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing? Watch

Poll: Should Scotland be an independent country?
YES (299)
32.12%
NO (632)
67.88%
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MatureStudent36
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#3761
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#3761
(Original post by wrangled)
...and i have explained to YOU how Westminster is NOT England's devolved Parliament. It is called the "UK" Parliament. It look's after the UK as a whole not just England. Hence the "UK" bit. Don't believe me? See here... Www.parliament.gov.uk

See the "UK Parliament" bit? Can't see anywhere where it says English Parliament, can you?

I think we are losing out on something. Yes youre quite right i do. I am losing out as a mature student from free tuition fees. I will come out of uni with thousands of thousands of £s of debt over my head. If i were Scottish i wouldn't have a penny of debt.

If i contract cancer i may not get the life saving treatment i need. If i lived in Scotland i would.

I have to pay an ever increasing rate for prescription charges. If i live in Scotland i get it free.

Road tolls are free in Scotland.

Legal aid remains unaffected in Scotland.

Rail fares are subsidised in Scotland.

Need i go on? And you tell me that i am missing out on something.

Then we have the cheek of some political parties such as Labour telling us we're "all British". Are we f**k.

Then there are people like yourself who already benefit from such extravagances at England's expense and seek to deny England of the same national voice as has been given to Scotland.

It is the height of ignorance and insult.
Westminster is the UK parliament but issues such as health and education, which are devolved, when discussed in Westminster are only about England. So when you say that England is not represented, you are incorrect as those are English only matters. Westminster in that case is acting as an English parliament. Setting up a new parliament to deal with theses issues is just an unnecessary expense. You just end up shuffling politicians from one building to another.

You can vote for politicians who give these things a way for free. But remember we've seen cuts in college funding, a massive centralisation of emergency service and under funding in NHS Scotland. So they're not free, they're being paid for from elsewhere. I'm sure I you ask Westminster they'll quite happily cut back spending on the NHS for cheap freebies that only benefit a minority.
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MatureStudent36
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#3762
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#3762
(Original post by Tigers)
this is why Scotland should be independent.The English will never treat Scotland like England
Thank you for demonstrating to me that nationalists seem to be driven by a xenophobic streak.

Every part of the UK gets treated equally
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Choo.choo
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#3763
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#3763
Here is a video from a Scottish entrepreneur giving his reasons as to why he thinks Scotland could afford to be independent.
Taken from the "YesScotland" Youtube page.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8mtO...oKqQ-dGce5StFg
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MatureStudent36
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#3764
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#3764
(Original post by Choo.choo)
Here is a video from a Scottish entrepreneur giving his reasons as to why he thinks Scotland could afford to be independent.
Taken from the "YesScotland" Youtube page.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8mtO...oKqQ-dGce5StFg
Nobodies said we can't, but emotive speak doesn't get away from financial reality. Neither it overcome the issue that the majority of us feel we're better as part of being in the UK. Policing for seperation has remained at 30% for 30 years. It's not going to move.
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L i b
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#3765
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#3765
(Original post by Maths Tutor)
It must have escaped your notice that 'Better Together'stopped laughing at us a long time ago.
I'm not sure even Yes Scotland - with its plethora of dodgy associates - would want to be grouped in with you and your ridiculous views.

And I'm afraid we do laugh at them. The utter ineptitude of Blair Jenkins, for example, or the complete lack of understanding of many of their policy areas. Or that contorted, pained look on John Swinney's face whenever anyone points out one of the many flaws in his argument.

But most of all, we're laughing at you. Because you're madder than even the barmiest SNP backbencher.

The likes of yourself and MatureStudent36 wouldn't be fighting it out here if you found us to be ridiculous and never likely to win.
I know you think you're doing something to help your cause. We're under no such illusions. I, for one, am on here because I like debate and discussion, to challenge my own opinions as much as anything else. I don't think by being on here I will make a single electoral or political difference.
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L i b
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#3766
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#3766
(Original post by wrangled)
I think we are losing out on something. Yes youre quite right i do. I am losing out as a mature student from free tuition fees. I will come out of uni with thousands of thousands of £s of debt over my head. If i were Scottish i wouldn't have a penny of debt.
Really? I went to a Scottish university and most had considerable amounts of debt. For one, back then we certainly got a worse support package than in England.

Do you plan to live four years on nothing? Because otherwise you'll be in much the same boat as a student in England.

If i contract cancer i may not get the life saving treatment i need. If i lived in Scotland i would.
Actually you're three times more likely to get cancer drugs in England than Scotland due to the cancer drugs fund.

I have to pay an ever increasing rate for prescription charges. If i live in Scotland i get it free.
Well, over 90% of prescriptions are dispensed free in England. Essentially you're arguing that you shouldn't pay when you can afford to. Which is absurd. It's absurd in Scotland too, and depriving the NHS of £60 million that could be much better spent.

Legal aid remains unaffected in Scotland.
I must've imagined that protest of solicitors outside the Scottish Parliament then. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-20315054

Rail fares are subsidised in Scotland.
Rail fares are subsidised throughout the UK.

Need i go on? And you tell me that i am missing out on something.
Possibly a brain. I hardly think anyone with one could imagine they'd get away with making up that clap-trap in a forum full of Scottish people who actually know about devolved services.
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L i b
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#3767
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#3767
(Original post by wrangled)
What's 'utter rubbish'?

That there has been a huge campaign that has been going on SINCE devolution to the other parts in 1997 thst has and is continued to be ignored by Westminster?
Yes, that is utter rubbish. It simply hasn't happened. They may exist, but they are outnumbered by about 100 to 1 by the bee protection campaigners. It's not being ignored - it's being treated in exactly the same way as every other tiny campaign for something that the vast majority of people don't give a **** about.

Peoples attitude towards this stinks. Scottish Parliament yes, Northern Ireland Assembly, yes, Welsh Assembly yes... English Parliament? Ohhhh no, can't have that!! That would be equality and we don't do that in the UK.
If an English assembly becomes the settled will of the English people and there is a long and popular campaign in its favour, fine. I'd be perfectly happy for one to be created. But it isn't, and I doubt it ever will be.
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Choo.choo
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#3768
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#3768
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Nobodies said we can't, but emotive speak doesn't get away from financial reality. Neither it overcome the issue that the majority of us feel we're better as part of being in the UK. Policing for seperation has remained at 30% for 30 years. It's not going to move.
Do you have a crystal ball?
Nobody yet knows which way the vote will go next year.
We cannot vote for things based on "not knowing".
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wrangled
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#3769
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#3769
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Westminster is the UK parliament but issues such as health and education, which are devolved, when discussed in Westminster are only about England. So when you say that England is not represented, you are incorrect as those are English only matters. Westminster in that case is acting as an English parliament. Setting up a new parliament to deal with theses issues is just an unnecessary expense. You just end up shuffling politicians from one building to another.

You can vote for politicians who give these things a way for free. But remember we've seen cuts in college funding, a massive centralisation of emergency service and under funding in NHS Scotland. So they're not free, they're being paid for from elsewhere. I'm sure I you ask Westminster they'll quite happily cut back spending on the NHS for cheap freebies that only benefit a minority.
"When discussed in Westminster are only about England" yet we have Scottish and Welshps representing non-English constituents voting and influencing English policy. They can't be banned because it is the UK Parliament.
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Choo.choo
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#3770
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#3770
Very true.
Attached files
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Maths Tutor
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#3771
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#3771
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Thank you for demonstrating to me that nationalists seem to be driven by a xenophobic streak.

Every part of the UK gets treated equally
Yes, Father Christmas really, really exists.
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Maths Tutor
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#3772
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#3772
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
I don't need to. Polling indicates that their has to be a huge swing before I need to be worried and whilst the YeSNP campaign are relying on the likes if you to promote their cause, I can sleep soundly. Inane rumblings don't tend to win people over, nether do claims that they lack pride.
Do you even sleep, let alone soundly?

At the latest count, you have made 8 times the posts I have made (4,800 compared to 600).

Anyone who was confident of winning, if in his/her right mind, wouldn't spend his/her waking like on this thread.

The 'NO Scotland' camp are getting more desperate by the minute.

That can be proved by the "inane rumblings" of YOURSELF and L i b, according to whose "inane rumblings", in the event of a YES vote, the UK could negotiate Scotland's membership of the EU.

Haven't read a more stupid comment than that on this thread of 189 pages to date.
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#3773
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#3773
I cant decide if I want a yes or no vote. Yes=Labour cannot win the next general election, torries win, have EU referendum, vote out, happy days! Although the remaining UK is weaker. Vote No, a stronger UK but a much better chance of labour winning the next election. A tough one!
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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#3774
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#3774
(Original post by wrangled)
To add, i don't think you have quite grasped why the people of England don't want "regions". All you do is go on about "regions". Regions are dead! They were rejected in 2004! Get over it!

Scotland was granted a Parliament of its own not just because of 'local' issues but because of "Scottish identity" and because it is an "historic nation within it's own right". Well so is England!!!

Regions are NOT devolved power for the people of England. They give no national voice to England. They would have had less powers than the Welsh Assembly. They are a substandard fob and undermine the historic nation of England.

They are also designed to eliminate English identity. Creating false EU regions, set against one another. Divide and conquer is the motto.
The identity is still present, just not represented. I cross out British on forms and write English.
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Choo.choo
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#3775
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#3775
(Original post by Yi-Ge-Ningderen)
I cant decide if I want a yes or no vote. Yes=Labour cannot win the next general election, torries win, have EU referendum, vote out, happy days! Although the remaining UK is weaker. Vote No, a stronger UK but a much better chance of labour winning the next election. A tough one!
You are very ill-informed.
The Labour MSP's in Scotland are in favour of independence for Scotland so they can get rid of Westminster, and prevent them imposing policies that people do not want.
YesScotland.net is your friend.
Read that website and you will change your vote to 'Yes'.
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MatureStudent36
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#3776
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#3776
(Original post by Choo.choo)
Do you have a crystal ball?
Nobody yet knows which way the vote will go next year.
We cannot vote for things based on "not knowing".
You are right. But 30 years of polling showing on 30% support for seperation is a strong indication people will vote no.

I hope however that when a no bite is returned we will see out cyberNAT community disappear from which ever hole they came from. I have people like Tigers claiming I must have no pride. People like Joan McAlpine claiming anybody who doesn't support the MSP is anti Scotland. People like Maths Tutor, well Maths Tutor is acting exactly how I except SNP supporters to act. Rambling and worrying.
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MatureStudent36
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#3777
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#3777
(Original post by Choo.choo)
You are very ill-informed.
The Labour MSP's in Scotland are in favour of independence for Scotland so they can get rid of Westminster, and prevent them imposing policies that people do not want.
YesScotland.net is your friend.
Read that website and you will change your vote to 'Yes'.
There's only really the SNP that support separation. The SNP have been forced to result to making up the Labour for Independence .

Decisions have least been made. And the SNP should've realised aping time ago that there is no support.
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Choo.choo
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#3778
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#3778
(Original post by MatureStudent36)
You are right. But 30 years of polling showing on 30% support for seperation is a strong indication people will vote no.

I hope however that when a no bite is returned we will see out cyberNAT community disappear from which ever hole they came from. I have people like Tigers claiming I must have no pride. People like Joan McAlpine claiming anybody who doesn't support the MSP is anti Scotland. People like Maths Tutor, well Maths Tutor is acting exactly how I except SNP supporters to act. Rambling and worrying.
If you want to continue to let the Westminster government ruin things for the Scottish people, and continue to be ruled by a government the Scottish people never vote for, then be my guest and vote 'No' next September. This opportunity to separate the Union will not come along again for a long time.
I just cannot see why you think that it is right for your country to remain part of a Union that will never make decisions that are right for the people of Scotland.
There are many, many changes that badly need to happen in Scotland, none of which will EVER happen under the ruling of a Westminster government.
From the picture I put up last night, it is clear that the Westminster government have squandered every last penny of the revenue from the North sea oil and gas.
There will be none left by the time we get another opportunity to rid Scotland of Westminster ruling.
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FinalMH
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#3779
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#3779
(Original post by Choo.choo)
Westminster government
:confused: So it was okay from 1997 to 2010 when the United Kingdom had a Scottish Prime Minister? This idea that Scottish views are not fully represented in the house of parliament can be applied to the European parliament.
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christinecheng27
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#3780
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#3780
I think it's too crazy for Scotland to gain independence....politically and economically


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