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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Not for the amount of money we'd be asking for, admittedly, but clubs have signed worse. Put him in a side with a tall, solid defence in front of him (i.e. Leicester or Stoke) and you wouldn't see half the problems you currently witness from him.
    Do you think we could even sell him for £10mil currently? Can't ignore the fact that he's now probably on like 80k a week too.

    For a brilliant shot stopper, he doesn't seem to have stopped many shots lately?
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    Much has been made of Jürgen Klopp’s touchline behaviour at Liverpool, those sudden cartwheeling appearances, grasping at the air, forming weird geometric shapes with his hands, a blur of teeth, glasses and quilted sportswear. At first this was interpreted as passion, then anger, then provocation. Another thought occurred watching Klopp at Anfield on Sunday. Perhaps he’s just really, really confused.

    And with good reason, too. Liverpool’s squad is a deeply confusing collection of footballers. Watching their spirited impersonation of a coherent, hard-pressing Premier League team, it was the final 10 minutes of the defeat by Manchester United that really stood out. Chasing a point at the last, Klopp sent on Christian Benteke, the only centre-forward in his 18-man squad. Benteke touched the ball six times and visibly struggled to fit into a team that had just spent 80 minutes playing to an entirely different set of strengths.

    With a minute to go Steven Caulker, a centre-half at centre-forward, came on for James Milner, a central midfielder playing as a right-sided attacker, to join Roberto Firmino, a No9 or No10, who spent the 90 minutes haring about, quite effectively, trying to be both.

    Little wonder Klopp might be a bit confused. And not just by the conflicting qualities of the group of players he has inherited. But by the structures and governance of a club that has, in a brilliant coup, managed to hire one of the most desirable managers in Europe; and then, in the opposite of a brilliant coup, presented him with one of the weirdest, most ill-fitting squads in recent Premier League history.

    This is no exaggeration. Liverpool have signed 50 players in the past five years, a team a season. The current group were signed under five different managers, to unconnected tactical plans, most recently by a mob-handed transfer committee with its own dimly conceived moneyball-style pretentions.

    There is no shortage of informed opinion on Klopp’s efforts to make sense of this. One thing stands out, though. Liverpool’s transfer committee, in its current format, really does deserve to go. The reasons for this are obvious enough. First, it is now basically redundant. It was Brendan Rodgers’ insistence that he wouldn’t work with a director of football that led to the committee’s formation in the first place. Odd to think that but for Rodgers’ stubbornness Louis van Gaal might have been in the Liverpool directors’ box on Sunday, or even next to Klopp on the bench as one half of a mouthwatering Euro-brainbox power-couple.

    Rodgers’ remarks about the workings of the club over the weekend must be read in the context of an unemployed manager tending his reputation. But they do shine a light on the self-generated muddle the club has handed his successor. “It’s difficult because you want a player in but if the player is not on the list, you’d have to take someone,” Rodgers said. “There’s no other option, you give it a go.”

    Except that giving it a go works only if there is a hint of a tactically sympathetic relationship with the man putting these players on the pitch. Of the team Liverpool fielded on Sunday, Mamadou Sakho, Emre Can, Alberto Moreno and Firmino are said to have been “committee” signings. Adam Lallana, Milner, Benteke and Nathaniel Clyne were Rodgers’ choices. Lucas Leiva and Jordan Henderson were signed by Rafa Benítez and Kenny Dalglish. Jordon Ibe was an academy kid taken from Wycombe at the age of 16, a Rodgers favourite, now embraced – just about – by Klopp.

    A camel, so the saying goes, is a horse designed by committee. And right now Liverpool are pretty much the definition of a footballing camel. A squad built with the combined input of a six-man committee and five different managers, with a mixture of team-building, bargain-hunting, quick fix and long-term planning in mind, was never likely to be anything else.

    It might be argued the committee itself is not the problem. Klopp is comfortable with the process. At Borussia Dortmund the majority of players were signed by the club hierarchy. In the Premier League Tottenham have a pretty functional, slimmed-down version, judging by the past two years at least.

    The issue at Liverpool is a transfer committee that has simply failed on its record. The dominant personality is said to be Mike Gordon, a well-respected US stockbroker who is, according to John Henry, “by far FSG America’s most knowledgeable person with regard to soccer”. Footballers, though, are not stocks. Buying young players with resale in mind does not amount to team-building. “They were thinking this is a £50m player we could maybe get for £16m,” Rodgers said of the signing of Mario Balotelli.

    But there is a reason Balotelli was so cheap. Just as Rodgers, in pure football terms, was never going to be the manager to bring him to that level.

    It was at least a tactic though. Two years on the signing of Benteke, for a non-refundable twice the price, seems entirely baffling: neither an investment nor a symptom of Rodgers’ playing “philosophy” in action, just evidence of a confusion of voices.

    What is clear is that Klopp has a minor part in what this team of mismatched components look like right now. He may yet be able to wring some short-term order. But the ability to panic-build is hardly a basis on which to judge him. Just as it is probably best to put a hold on asking when we might see the first barks of power-chord football from the collection of mandolins, harpsichords and broken ukuleles thrust into his hands. The real measure will come a year or so on from the expected purge at the end of the season. On current evidence Firmino, Can, Philippe Coutinho, Lucas, Clyne, along with youngsters such as Ibe and Joe Gomez may form an early nucleus. The list of those likely to head elsewhere is as long as a piece of string, with Benteke and Lallana the most obviously lacking in Klopp-style edge.

    For now a better place to start might be the slimming down or junking of that ill-starred committee, an accident of the Rodgers era that has turned out to be its most confusing legacy.
    http://www.theguardian.com/football/...sfer-committee

    Pretty much sums up the issues about our transfer policy for quite a while now.
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    The only bit of optimism I have over the contract is that perhaps Klopp is tying down Mignolet so he has a back-up/competitive keeper set up if he brings in a fairly young and unproven German goalkeeper like Horn or Leno for instance?

    It would make sense and provide good competition between the two, but even then I would struggle to understand how a 5 year contract fits for Mignolet fits in.
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    (Original post by Lúcio)
    The only bit of optimism I have over the contract is that perhaps Klopp is tying down Mignolet so he has a back-up/competitive keeper set up if he brings in a fairly young and unproven German goalkeeper like Horn or Leno for instance?
    This is what I'm hoping.

    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Do you think we could even sell him for £10mil currently? Can't ignore the fact that he's now probably on like 80k a week too.

    For a brilliant shot stopper, he doesn't seem to have stopped many shots lately?
    Money doesn't matter anywhere near as much as anybody thinks it does. It's arbitrary in football - this is the way it's going. It's not my money, so I'm not bothered.

    I agree on the second part - and it's something that can't be swept under the carpet. I think it's farcical that he's on the deck when Fellaini's header hits the bar on Sunday, for a start.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Money doesn't matter anywhere near as much as anybody thinks it does. It's arbitrary in football - this is the way it's going. It's not my money, so I'm not bothered.
    I don't think that was his point. He was rather suggesting not many teams pay their goalkeeper 80k p/w hence a move would probably require a pay cut. If he wasn't lacking in appeal at a price tag of £10m, then the wage demands should kill all interest.

    Klopp will probably have similar problems elsewhere in the squad tbh. Plenty of players for whom this we current deal at Liverpool is the main course of their career earnings. I would think a fair few will see themselves on loan deals.



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    (Original post by Mackay)
    This is what I'm hoping.



    Money doesn't matter anywhere near as much as anybody thinks it does. It's arbitrary in football - this is the way it's going. It's not my money, so I'm not bothered.

    I agree on the second part - and it's something that can't be swept under the carpet. I think it's farcical that he's on the deck when Fellaini's header hits the bar on Sunday, for a start.
    Arbitrary in what sense? You mean for the players because they earn so much? Or when it's being negotiated?

    My point was more, players rarely are willing to move for less money than they are contractually entitled to (see Adebayor for example) so if you want to shift a high earner you either have to (1) wait for his contract to expire if happening soon (2) hope someone else is willing to pay the same or more in wages (3) continue to supplement a portion of his wages while playing at a different club (4) be stick with paying his full wages while he rots in the reserves/bench.

    Yea I can't work out what was happening there. Ibe should've been closer to Mata since they played a short corner first. Too many players then got sucked into Fellani (like 4?) and then Lucas stops marking Rooney behind him so he's free to shoot.

    Did Mignolet slip? Is he trying to change directions quickly once the ball hits the bar? He didn't dive trying to stop Fellani's header obviously.

    Klopp or the GK coach or the committee must obviously see something in Mignolet in training? He's been at the club 2.5 years and we've not bought another keeper in 5 follow transfer windows who can rival him. We're not seeing it in match days though..
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    (Original post by Fizzel)
    I don't think that was his point. He was rather suggesting not many teams pay their goalkeeper 80k p/w hence a move would probably require a pay cut. If he wasn't lacking in appeal at a price tag of £10m, then the wage demands should kill all interest.

    Klopp will probably have similar problems elsewhere in the squad tbh. Plenty of players for whom this we current deal at Liverpool is the main course of their career earnings. I would think a fair few will see themselves on loan deals.



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    United had a similar issue a few years ago though with the likes of Nani and RVP, pretty sure Vidic and Evra were on a high deal too? Not that it's a problem though. Liverpool have a bigger issue though.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
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    Sorry - I completely misunderstood. Fizzel enlightened me below...

    (Original post by Fizzel)
    I don't think that was his point. He was rather suggesting not many teams pay their goalkeeper 80k p/w hence a move would probably require a pay cut. If he wasn't lacking in appeal at a price tag of £10m, then the wage demands should kill all interest.

    Klopp will probably have similar problems elsewhere in the squad tbh. Plenty of players for whom this we current deal at Liverpool is the main course of their career earnings. I would think a fair few will see themselves on loan deals.
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    I see I see. And that's a very valid argument.

    You look around the squad, and it's actually in a very similar situation to when Benitez left before Hodgson brought in all the dross. There's high earners in there who we'll struggle to shift. You're looking at the likes of Borini, who literally had to be frozen out for 24 months before he decided to up sticks, and I get the impression we're about to see similar situations all over the pitch.

    A large part of me respects players like Rickie Lambert. At 33, he could have easily sat on his hands at Anfield this season and decided he didn't fancy a move to WBA. He was in his home city once again, financially secure for life, and at his boyhood club. He could have just gone to training and played three cup games a season, akin to Enrique, but his character/pride wouldn't allow that.

    I respect that a great deal - and wish more players had the same mentality.
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Sorry - I completely misunderstood. Fizzel enlightened me below...



    I see I see. And that's a very valid argument.

    You look around the squad, and it's actually in a very similar situation to when Benitez left before Hodgson brought in all the dross. There's high earners in there who we'll struggle to shift. You're looking at the likes of Borini, who literally had to be frozen out for 24 months before he decided to up sticks, and I get the impression we're about to see similar situations all over the pitch.

    A large part of me respects players like Rickie Lambert. At 33, he could have easily sat on his hands at Anfield this season and decided he didn't fancy a move to WBA. He was in his home city once again, financially secure for life, and at his boyhood club. He could have just gone to training and played three cup games a season, akin to Enrique, but his character/pride wouldn't allow that.

    I respect that a great deal - and wish more players had the same mentality.
    I don't think our squad is that bad in terms of high earnings/hard to force out?

    Clyne - keep
    Enrique - deal expires this summer
    K.Toure - deal expires this summer
    Lovren - may struggle with his wages if we want to sell
    Milner - may struggle with his wages if we want to sell but I think he'd be more likely to seek a move away so he could play centrally elsewhere (more likely to be a Lambert type player)
    Benteke - I don't think we'll struggle that much to sell but his wages will be an issue since must be really high
    Coutinho - keep
    Firmino - keep
    Gomez - keep
    Henderson - keep
    Sturridge - wages will be a problem due to his fitness
    Sakho - keep but wages could be an issue
    Moreno - keep
    Caulker - 6 month loan only
    Lallana - I don't think his wages at that high? If the rumoured 65k then will be easy to shift with the new TV deal
    Lucas - contract expires in 1.5 years
    Mignolet - new contract so not selling
    Can - keep
    Allen - 1.5 years left and don't think his wages are high
    Ilori - wages could be an issue due to age/ability but not a high earner
    Origi - keep
    Ings - keep
    Ibe - keep
    Bogdan - wages could be an issue due to age/ability but not a high earner
    Skrtel - high wages and 2.5 years to go (could be an issue)
    Flanagan - contract expires in the summer

    Balotelli, Alberto and Markovic won't be easy to shift.

    How many players do you think are on over 100k a week?
    Sturridge, Benteke, Milner, Henderson, Firmino?

    Our wages were £143mil at the end of 2014 season. Two years out of date (we won't see 2015 figures for a couple more months) but we're definitely a slimmer wage bill club under FSG.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
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    Kolo isn't an issue, and neither is Enrique anymore.

    I'd keep Lovren personally, and Milner should be looking to be with us for two more seasons at least. We should be valuing the experience he brings us. I agree with all your others to keep.

    Hopefully - given his age and dwindling years - Skrtel will take a pay-cut and move away when he stops being a permanent fixture in the back four (which certainly needs to be soon).

    I'd actually keep Markovic, but Alberto/Balotelli will both be tough to shift - and we've really played ourselves into a cul-de-sac with that pair, as well as probably struggling to sell on Sturridge if we were looking to cash in.

    Our wages, according to a leaked document in the summer:

    Mignolet - £60k
    Bogdan - £15k
    Sakho/Lovren - £65k
    Skrtel - £75k
    Ilori - £20k
    Gomez - £10k
    K Toure - £65k
    A Moreno - £25k
    J Enrique - £75k
    Clyne - £70k
    Flanagan - £35k
    Can - £55k
    Milner - £120k
    Henderson/Firmino - £100k
    Coutinho - £75k
    Lallana - £65k
    Ibe - £10k
    Markovic - £60k
    Balotelli - £110k
    Sturridge - £120k
    Benteke - £140k
    Origi - £15k
    Ings - £60k
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    (Original post by Mackay)
    Kolo isn't an issue, and neither is Enrique anymore.

    I'd keep Lovren personally, and Milner should be looking to be with us for two more seasons at least. We should be valuing the experience he brings us. I agree with all your others to keep.

    Hopefully - given his age and dwindling years - Skrtel will take a pay-cut and move away when he stops being a permanent fixture in the back four (which certainly needs to be soon).

    I'd actually keep Markovic, but Alberto/Balotelli will both be tough to shift - and we've really played ourselves into a cul-de-sac with that pair, as well as probably struggling to sell on Sturridge if we were looking to cash in.

    Our wages, according to a leaked document in the summer:

    Mignolet - £60k
    Bogdan - £15k
    Sakho/Lovren - £65k
    Skrtel - £75k
    Ilori - £20k
    Gomez - £10k
    K Toure - £65k
    A Moreno - £25k
    J Enrique - £75k
    Clyne - £70k
    Flanagan - £35k
    Can - £55k
    Milner - £120k
    Henderson/Firmino - £100k
    Coutinho - £75k
    Lallana - £65k
    Ibe - £10k
    Markovic - £60k
    Balotelli - £110k
    Sturridge - £120k
    Benteke - £140k
    Origi - £15k
    Ings - £60k
    See wages not that high other than 2 or 3 anomalies.

    So then we'd only be looking to potentially sell Skrtel, Lallana, Allen, Benteke, Balotelli, Bogdan, Alberto?

    We need a LB for cover. Gomez should be back for RB. If Matip comes in at CB then we just need to make a decision about 4th choice CB (Wisdom? Toure? Ilori?). Replace Allen with a quality CM, replace Lallana with a goalscoring AM, replace Benteke with a striker who suits us and then maybe one winger? That would do..
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    (Original post by jam277)
    United had a similar issue a few years ago though with the likes of Nani and RVP, pretty sure Vidic and Evra were on a high deal too? Not that it's a problem though. Liverpool have a bigger issue though.
    Main one that springs to mind was Anderson, all the others we at least useful for the majority of their deals. Anderson had just over 100 pl app in 8 ****ing seasons, and he got a 80k p/w deal in 2010 ffs. Thats one of the things LVG has done that doesn't get mentioned when talking about the money he's spent, so many of those players have been moved on. As above Liverpool's issue might not be wages, but where the players don't want to take a step down. Like Balotelli, I'd think Benteke, Sturridge, Ings would all be fairly reluctant to take step down in prestige having seemingly just got their break.
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    (Original post by Zerforax)
    Gomez should be back for RB. If Matip comes in at CB then we just need to make a decision about 4th choice CB (Wisdom? Toure? Ilori?).
    I doubt Wisdom will be retained long-term, to be honest. The guy has spent far too much time on loan for that to happen now. I imagine we're waiting around for a bottom-half PL club to come in with an offer we see as suitable
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    No Sturridge. Flannagan in contention to play [but not start] for tomorrow. Looks as though we're going for youngsters again.
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    (Original post by mr tim)
    No Sturridge. Flannagan in contention to play [but not start] for tomorrow. Looks as though we're going for youngsters again.
    Wonder if Klopp and Sturridge are avoiding giving any sort of timing to protect against so much talk about a return if he did suffer a setback?

    Would be good to see Flanagan back in a Liverpool shirt. Not sure if he will be able to recover from so much time out though for a long term Liverpool career.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Benteke, Allen and Caulker come in as senior players and then the rest would be a very similar team to last time.
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    Rumours going around twitter that Sturridge may never play again. Very sad if true.
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    https://twitter.com/fkhanage/status/689512534836121603

    Very very sad if true, my heart breaks
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    (Original post by Lyrical Prodigy)
    https://twitter.com/fkhanage/status/689512534836121603

    Very very sad if true, my heart breaks
    Ncl


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    strong sympathy
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    Not sure how I feel if that's true.

    Obviously gutted that the most efficient Liverpool striker on the field in history would have to end his career in this manner.

    Although if there's even the tiniest sliver of consolation, it would be that with Sturridge gone we'd finally go and properly buy a striker. And not a cheap one at that.

    Even so, I sincerely hope it isn't true.
 
 
 
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