The I-SOC (Islamic Society) XIII

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    (Original post by guided1)
    It was a march for ashura with some people with signs about terrorism. tbh I'm starting to think thay my parents might be right about all the rules an regulations and what we must do an must not do. God has always been there and always will and men just make up their own rules for their own benefit. God doesnt care about all the little stuff why would he. God knows what is in our hearts so what does praying five times a day and stuff prove ecxept to the people around us and why are we trying to impress them. And all the arguing and hate between sects is doing my head in.
    How does arguing and being secterian relate to praying?

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    (Original post by guided1)
    It was a march for ashura with some people with signs about terrorism. tbh I'm starting to think thay my parents might be right about all the rules an regulations and what we must do an must not do. God has always been there and always will and men just make up their own rules for their own benefit. God doesnt care about all the little stuff why would he. God knows what is in our hearts so what does praying five times a day and stuff prove ecxept to the people around us and why are we trying to impress them. And all the arguing and hate between sects is doing my head in.
    1. Men make up rules for their own benefit and have done for thousands of yeas, therefore God sent Prophets and Messengers, and He gave us Islam - the Quran and Sunnah - as a way living life according to how He wishes us to. If you believe that the rules of God (the Shariah) was invented by men to serve themselves, then your understanding is flawed, and if you continue to believe this, then you will be rejecting both Islam and God.

    2. God knows what's in our hearts is very true, but if you refuse to pray as God has ordered you to do or believe as God has ordered you to believe, then what does that say about your heart? That's the fundamental flaw with this idea and why that argument destroys itself.

    3. There are hadith which talk of those who used to do good deeds for the sake of showing off rather than for God - those people will be thrown in Hell before the disbelievers, which shoes how abhorrent their actions were. The excuse that you have given for rejecting prayer is therefore flawed as well.

    4. The hadith tell us that we will be divided into sects just as the Christians and the Jews did before us, and that is why it is so important that we try to strive for the truth and try to be from the saved sect; if we cannot be bothered with the sect issue, then really how important is seeking the truth and obeying God to us when we are too lazy to learn and strive for that truth, to implement that truth and to help others benefit from it?

    I hope you do not take this post too harshly, but I would strongly advise you to reconsider your perspective and the fundamentals of your belief, and I advise this to myself and others too.

    May Allah guide you and us all, Ameen.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Yeah he has transformed into a skeptical ex-Shia overnight :-/
    Anjem was shia? Since when?
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Anjem was shia? Since when?
    when he was on MI6 payroll house-sharing in Tel-Aviv with Zakir Naik .

    how have you not heard about this??? PM inzamam99 for more info
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    (Original post by Chakede)
    when he was on MI6 payroll house-sharing in Tel-Aviv with Zakir Naik .

    how have you not heard about this??? PM inzamam99 for more info
    All brand new info to me.
    Would deffo like to find out more
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    All brand new info to me.
    Would deffo like to find out more
    yeh its all conspiracy yaar.

    inzamam99 is best conspiracy walla
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    (Original post by Al-farhan)
    Anjem was shia? Since when?
    It was sarcasm lol
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    It was sarcasm lol
    (Original post by Chakede)
    yeh its all conspiracy yaar.

    inzamam99 is best conspiracy walla
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    The way Ithna-Asharis grieve is learned and not natural at all - everyone grieves differently, and only few might slap their forehead in shock and disbelief naturally, but otherwise if a man, child or woman was to grieve naturally without any outside influence, then I can assure you their reaction would not be to beat their chests. The act of organised mourning on a yearly basis, gathering and wailing and beating their chests and reciting poems etc is bidah.
    Reciting a poem is bidah?

    Are you a fundamentalist?

    It's a way of commemorating the day of Ashura for Imam Husayn. We are in no way worshipping the Ahlul Bayt, which I think is a very big misconception other sects of Islam have of Shias.

    anyways, I cannot change your opinion on Shias and their actions, but I suggest you do research.
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    (Original post by IRoranth)
    Reciting a poem is bidah?

    Are you a fundamentalist?

    It's a way of commemorating the day of Ashura for Imam Husayn. We are in no way worshipping the Ahlul Bayt, which I think is a very big misconception other sects of Islam have of Shias.

    anyways, I cannot change your opinion on Shias and their actions, but I suggest you do research.
    I am no scholar but my understanding of bidah is that it depends on frequency/timing, intention, manner etc. Shia gather on specific dates and recite the poems in order to feel closer to Allah and because they see benefit in gathering like this - to me that is bidah.

    I stick to what is clear and I despise innovations; I am unsure what you define as 'fundamentalist'. If following the Quran and Sunnah as understood by those who first propagated it is 'fundamentalism', surely all Muslims should be fundamentalists?

    We don't view it that way, we just view the way in which it is done to be excessive and innovated. In some cases it may constitute 'worshipping' them depending on what specific actions are done in Karbala in the Shrine if Hussein (RA), but that must be assessed in more detail.
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    (Original post by Zamestaneh)
    1. Men make up rules for their own benefit and have done for thousands of yeas, therefore God sent Prophets and Messengers, and He gave us Islam - the Quran and Sunnah - as a way living life according to how He wishes us to. If you believe that the rules of God (the Shariah) was invented by men to serve themselves, then your understanding is flawed, and if you continue to believe this, then you will be rejecting both Islam and God.

    2. God knows what's in our hearts is very true, but if you refuse to pray as God has ordered you to do or believe as God has ordered you to believe, then what does that say about your heart? That's the fundamental flaw with this idea and why that argument destroys itself.

    3. There are hadith which talk of those who used to do good deeds for the sake of showing off rather than for God - those people will be thrown in Hell before the disbelievers, which shoes how abhorrent their actions were. The excuse that you have given for rejecting prayer is therefore flawed as well.

    4. The hadith tell us that we will be divided into sects just as the Christians and the Jews did before us, and that is why it is so important that we try to strive for the truth and try to be from the saved sect; if we cannot be bothered with the sect issue, then really how important is seeking the truth and obeying God to us when we are too lazy to learn and strive for that truth, to implement that truth and to help others benefit from it?

    I hope you do not take this post too harshly, but I would strongly advise you to reconsider your perspective and the fundamentals of your belief, and I advise this to myself and others too.

    May Allah guide you and us all, Ameen.
    But how do we know that all the prophets were not just men making up rules for their own benefit. Why would god command us to do all the complicated little stuff when he already knows what is in our hearts better than we do. When I feel his presence and give thanks and praise in my mind and heart, how is that wrong? Maybe its because I wasnt brought up with all the prayer and fasing and stuff but since I have been trying to do it and follow the true way of Islam it just does not feel right. It actually feels silly. I dont care what other people call me I know that god knows what is in my heart. I dont think there is a right way to worship god for god, I think it only matters for men.
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    (Original post by guided1)
    But how do we know that all the prophets were not just men making up rules for their own benefit. Why would god command us to do all the complicated little stuff when he already knows what is in our hearts better than we do. When I feel his presence and give thanks and praise in my mind and heart, how is that wrong? Maybe its because I wasnt brought up with all the prayer and fasing and stuff but since I have been trying to do it and follow the true way of Islam it just does not feel right. It actually feels silly. I dont care what other people call me I know that god knows what is in my heart. I dont think there is a right way to worship god for god, I think it only matters for men.
    It's straight deductive logic:

    1. We accept there is a God who created everything. God must subsequently be All Wise, All Powerful, All Knowing etc in order to have been able make all this.

    2. Let us make the presumption God would want to establish a relationship with those in His creation who are capable of higher thought and can comprehend the noion of a God. Because God is All Knowing ad All Wise, He would therefore tell us best how to live our lives and establish this relationship.

    3. In order to convey this message, God would have made these people infallible otherwise whats the point of conveying His words if they will get it wrong?

    4. Subsequently it is normal men, not the messengers, who corrupt this message and create laws as per their whims. This is what the Quran also affirms where it says people rejected their messengers or turned away from the message.

    5. If you now wish to claim that the Quran is other than the message of God to mankind, I ask you to show me how it is made by man and not God without subjective arguments like 'this is sexist, that is barbaric etc', because moral arguments aren't that relevant here.

    6. God knows whats in our hearts, but the whole point of the 'complicated' stuff is to purify your heart and to test those who think they are good but really aren't, and those who are truly good. If you cannot obey God on His religious rituals and rules, then ultimately you are admitting the quality of your heart is questionable - it's like saying to someone 'I love you' but when they ask you to do something you tell them you can't - what kind of love is that? We are told that missing prayer is a major sin, so if you do not care about that just because it isn't murder, for example, then you cannot say 'God knows what is in my heart' as a defence since that is something against you rather than for you.

    Final point:
    Do not now think "actually I don't love God as much as I thought I did", rather think "I want to love God, so I will do what I can to obey Him more and more, so my love can increase and I can prove I love my Lord", and thus slowly work your way towards implementing God's guidance in your life increasingly as time goes on InshaAllah.
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    fatima1998 Fatimaaaa. Thanks for the rep You okay?
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    (Original post by ak143244)
    fatima1998 Fatimaaaa. Thanks for the rep You okay?
    :lol: when did i rep you :hmmmm:
    yep i am okay! and you
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    (Original post by fatima1998)
    :lol: when did i rep you :hmmmm:
    yep i am okay! and you
    Yesterday I think.
    yeah I'm good Alhamdulillah
    How has your day been?
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    (Original post by ak143244)
    Yesterday I think.
    yeah I'm good Alhamdulillah
    How has your day been?
    ah then be ready for the next one :shh:
    great
    pretty stressful as usual and sooo tiring as well :hide:
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    (Original post by fatima1998)
    ah then be ready for the next one :shh:
    great
    pretty stressful as usual and sooo tiring as well :hide:
    How are you able to rep everyday whilst I have to wait like a week to rep some others?

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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    How are you able to rep everyday whilst I have to wait like a week to rep some others?

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    It's a conspiracy
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    (Original post by HAnwar)
    How are you able to rep everyday whilst I have to wait like a week to rep some others?

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    :toofunny: you just have to spread more reps (rep loads of people) :innocent:
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    (Original post by AbdulALI)
    It's a conspiracy
    Lol

    (Original post by fatima1998)
    :toofunny: you just have to spread more reps (rep loads of people) :innocent:
    I can't do that if it doesn't let me rep in the first place

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