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TSR MHoC General Election March 2013 Watch

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    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Yes, exactly, which is why comprehensive schools were invented. They alone have the potential to provide a genuinely mixed education whilst not clefting entire peer groups into two or three pots. The reason they appear flawed today is because of the national curriculum which forces schools down a blind alley of exams and results attainment.
    While I don't support the creation of more grammar schools, the one size fits all policy whilst good in theory can't work. You can't deny that some people are more or less academically minded, so it is pretty pointless really. If you ask me GCSEs should be made more like AS/A2 level structure, so at the end of Y10 there is the option to go on a normal 3 year apprenticeship if it isn't for them rather than them staying on another year.
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    I personally feel that more grammar schools, or at least some more efficient method of setting, is a good idea - they give children from disadvantaged backgrounds aid in achieving their potential, which may not happen if they go to the local comprehensive. While setting does happen in comprehensives, they still result in problems sometimes. For example, only 18 people at my school (an average comprehensive) do GCSE Economics, including me. There are clearly not enough to set us, but I, who got an A* in the last test, am in the same class as a group of louts who admitted that they only joined the group as the could go on the computers, and who called one of their mates a nerd for getting an E. With grammar schools, everyone who took it would (hopefully) want to learn.
    Even when there is a set, in Maths for example, there can be problems. In top set we are all sitting our GCSE at the end of this year. Unfortunately, they are expecting only 6 of the 32 of us to get our target grades, so they are not letting me start AS, or even take some form of Additional Maths, early next year even if I do get an A* as there would not be enough people to make a viable class. Therefore, I will be forced to sit for another year in GCSE, bearing in mind I got 97% in a C1 paper with no revision last month. In a grammar school, hopefully there would be enough people to allow me to do these things.
    Sorry if that sounds like a rant, or if I sound like a bragger, but it is a subject quite close to my heart!

    Krollo


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    (Original post by Krollo)
    I personally feel that more grammar schools, or at least some more efficient method of setting, is a good idea - they give children from disadvantaged backgrounds aid in achieving their potential, which may not happen if they go to the local comprehensive. While setting does happen in comprehensives, they still result in problems sometimes. For example, only 18 people at my school (an average comprehensive) do GCSE Economics, including me. There are clearly not enough to set us, but I, who got an A* in the last test, am in the same class as a group of louts who admitted that they only joined the group as the could go on the computers, and who called one of their mates a nerd for getting an E. With grammar schools, everyone who took it would (hopefully) want to learn.
    Even when there is a set, in Maths for example, there can be problems. In top set we are all sitting our GCSE at the end of this year. Unfortunately, they are expecting only 6 of the 32 of us to get our target grades, so they are not letting me start AS, or even take some form of Additional Maths, early next year even if I do get an A* as there would not be enough people to make a viable class. Therefore, I will be forced to sit for another year in GCSE, bearing in mind I got 97% in a C1 paper with no revision last month. In a grammar school, hopefully there would be enough people to allow me to do these things.
    Sorry if that sounds like a rant, or if I sound like a bragger, but it is a subject quite close to my heart!

    Krollo


    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I would say I am in a similar, from the sounds of things not quite as bad but nonetheless similar position to you

    However, I used to think the same as you, but one statement changed my mind I think ill let you mellow over it as well

    Do the healthy deserve better healthcare?
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    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Yes, exactly, which is why comprehensive schools were invented. They alone have the potential to provide a genuinely mixed education whilst not clefting entire peer groups into two or three pots. The reason they appear flawed today is because of the national curriculum which forces schools down a blind alley of exams and results attainment.
    I agree with you there. The curriculum is far too rigid, it should cater to its users, and right now it doesnt.
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    While I don't support the creation of more grammar schools, the one size fits all policy whilst good in theory can't work. You can't deny that some people are more or less academically minded, so it is pretty pointless really. If you ask me GCSEs should be made more like AS/A2 level structure, so at the end of Y10 there is the option to go on a normal 3 year apprenticeship if it isn't for them rather than them staying on another year.
    Yes but this isn't about a one size fits all policy! Rather, it's about having a single non-segregated school which provides for a number of different styles of learning and educational attainment because people learn and achieve in numerous different ways. And, that is possible within the comprehensive school system. Indeed, it is more possible in that system than in any other we have thusfar come up with. I have not, nor will I advocate a one-size-fits-all approach to education. Having been a teacher, I know it doesn't work.
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    I would say I am in a similar, from the sounds of things not quite as bad but nonetheless similar position to you

    However, I used to think the same as you, but one statement changed my mind I think ill let you mellow over it as well

    Do the healthy deserve better healthcare?
    I appreciate your point, and to some extent agree with it myself. It is definitely important to get as many people as we can at least the basic qualifications, in the same way as it is important for healthcare to keep people alive.
    However, the physically able have opportunities to extend themselves, ranging from after school sports clubs to SAS training. In this case they do deserve better care, as with it they can become excellent soldiers and athletes, and assets to their country. In much the same way, I think that people who are academically able should be given the opportunities to develop their skills, while still maintaining a level of education which gives even the least academically able decent job prospects.

    This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9100
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    (Original post by Moleman1996)
    I agree with you there. The curriculum is far too rigid, it should cater to its users, and right now it doesnt.
    Well that's Tory education policies for you: spacky at the best of times. However, you focused on the least important bit of my post.
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    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    Well that's Tory education policies for you: spacky at the best of times. However, you focused on the least important bit of my post.
    Labour's educations policies were just as poor. The attitudes towards teaching have hardly changed at all since the coalition took over. Comprehensive schools haven't worked properly for years, for as long as ive been at school, mostly under a labour government, those who the comprehensive school should have extended education to serve remained excluded and separated. The system under labour was in as poor a state as it had ever been.
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    "Education, education, education"

    Nice one Blair
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    (Original post by Moleman1996)
    Labour's educations policies were just as poor. The attitudes towards teaching have hardly changed at all since the coalition took over. Comprehensive schools haven't worked properly for years, for as long as ive been at school, mostly under a labour government, those who the comprehensive school should have extended education to serve remained excluded and separated. The system under labour was in as poor a state as it had ever been.
    I spent just about equal time in school under a Tory gvt (1989-1997) and a Labour govt (1997-2004) and there was noticeable improvements under Labour - better finance, more resources, and genuine opportunities. Compare that to when the Tories were in power and there were school closures, poor resources, and most people considered education a waste of time. Now, you might think that this is just clouded memory but that would neglect the fact I'm a historian and have gone back to the newspapers from the late-1980s and 1990s to discern quite what society was thinking about and like when I was a child. It was for a paper that I've since published in a journal.

    So whilst I agree that comprehensive schools haven't really worked as they should, I don't agree that education under Labour was worse than the Tory years. The long Tory winter, as it should rightly be called.
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    Well yes but education policy is always going to be a joke. National government uses it as a political football because it's an important issue, which means that it is afflicted by short termism and by cretins like Gove running around imposing their brand of idiocy on things. Devolved government is much the same where applicable. Local government is generally speaking made up of inadequate individuals owing to the imbalance in our political structure, meaning that their own impact on policy is rarly for the better. Meanwhile education, which would probably work itself out if teachers were left to it for a few years to settle in to a routine, is jostled and atrophied so that it can't set down proper roots. Doesn't matter who is in government, education policy is unwinnable. Strangely enough, this applies to TSR politics as well.
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    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Well yes but education policy is always going to be a joke. National government uses it as a political football because it's an important issue, which means that it is afflicted by short termism and by cretins like Gove running around imposing their brand of idiocy on things. Devolved government is much the same where applicable. Local government is generally speaking made up of inadequate individuals owing to the imbalance in our political structure, meaning that their own impact on policy is rarly for the better. Meanwhile education, which would probably work itself out if teachers were left to it for a few years to settle in to a routine, is jostled and atrophied so that it can't set down proper roots. Doesn't matter who is in government, education policy is unwinnable. Strangely enough, this applies to TSR politics as well.
    Well devolved education isn't so bad here as we've only had 2 education ministers in the entire time of the Welsh Assembly. Having the pleasure of knowing both Jane and Leighton they've determined to maintain a consistent policy throughout. That means starting the ground work for the foundation phase in 2003 and still being in office to see it through in 2010 and beyond. The problem we do have is too many LEAs and too many small LEAs at that which has resulted in terrific replication and significant weaknesses and mismanagement. But the people who decided Wales would have nearly 20 councils from 1996 were ... THE TORIES.
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    (Original post by obi_adorno_kenobi)
    I spent just about equal time in school under a Tory gvt (1989-1997) and a Labour govt (1997-2004) and there was noticeable improvements under Labour - better finance, more resources, and genuine opportunities. Compare that to when the Tories were in power and there were school closures, poor resources, and most people considered education a waste of time. Now, you might think that this is just clouded memory but that would neglect the fact I'm a historian and have gone back to the newspapers from the late-1980s and 1990s to discern quite what society was thinking about and like when I was a child. It was for a paper that I've since published in a journal.

    So whilst I agree that comprehensive schools haven't really worked as they should, I don't agree that education under Labour was worse than the Tory years. The long Tory winter, as it should rightly be called.
    My entire schooling was under the Labour government, and even though i dislike new labour i thank them so much for this. I was in an intervention group in my school where i was between getting 5 A-C's and not, including in maths, english and science. I left school with 9 A-C's, mostly at B's (including english, maths and science, and c in statistics) because our school put a lot of extra resources into helping us, including revision books which would have been very tricky to afford (by this age i was taking canned drinks and snacks into school to sell for pocket money). I ended up going to college, with a good work ethic, and even getting a degree. God knows what would have happened under a tory government :sad:

    There are certain family reasons, including my mother suffering from a (then) undiagnosed mental disorder that was the reason i didn't developed a work ethic. But looking back it is incredibly lucky that i received the support i did, considering two thirds of the people i went to school with didn't get the 5 A-C's, i do have a lot to be thankful for, i am not sure if it was the government or the commitment of the teachers, it is probably both, but i dread to think what could have happened.
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    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by JPKC)
    Liberals, are you opposed to all private trials, or just those intended to prevent the dissemination of sensitive information from the national security services?

    Since Sweden reformed their criminal justice laws to prevent rape victims from facing unreasonable exposure for pursuing their attackers in court, reports of rape have risen dramatically. Swedish victims are more likely to see justice done as a result of judges being able to shield them from the publicity that conventional trials attract. All people have a right to justice; having public trials for rapist hinders their victims from exercising this right, as they are forced to undergoe the punishment of disclosing deeply personal information to the press and public. Do you oppose holding private trials for sex offenders?
    Protecting the transparency and openness of trials does not mean we should go ahead and print the names of defendants or victims - only when people are found guilty of a crime should their anonymity be removed.

    Our concern is the removal of trial by jury and the creation of secret courts. For serious crimes, a cross-section of fellow citizens add balance to the judge's decision by considering properly evidence and adding transparency to the judge's decision. Many terrorism suspects are often sentenced in complete private, and without their 'crime' being properly considered by a jury. Judges are often pressurised to sentence people suspected of terrorism on very little evidence, in order to satisfy the demands of security services.

    Everyone should have the right to a fair, open trial by jury, and we'll try to protect this basic civil right.
    • Wiki Support Team
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    Wiki Support Team
    (Original post by Thunder and Jazz)
    Well yes but education policy is always going to be a joke. National government uses it as a political football because it's an important issue, which means that it is afflicted by short termism and by cretins like Gove running around imposing their brand of idiocy on things. Devolved government is much the same where applicable. Local government is generally speaking made up of inadequate individuals owing to the imbalance in our political structure, meaning that their own impact on policy is rarly for the better. Meanwhile education, which would probably work itself out if teachers were left to it for a few years to settle in to a routine, is jostled and atrophied so that it can't set down proper roots. Doesn't matter who is in government, education policy is unwinnable. Strangely enough, this applies to TSR politics as well.
    Excellent post.
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    (Original post by Krollo)
    I appreciate your point, and to some extent agree with it myself. It is definitely important to get as many people as we can at least the basic qualifications, in the same way as it is important for healthcare to keep people alive.
    However, the physically able have opportunities to extend themselves, ranging from after school sports clubs to SAS training. In this case they do deserve better care, as with it they can become excellent soldiers and athletes, and assets to their country. In much the same way, I think that people who are academically able should be given the opportunities to develop their skills, while still maintaining a level of education which gives even the least academically able decent job prospects.

    This was posted from The Student Room's Android App on my GT-I9100
    Trust me, your state school career so to speak will give you many more life experiences than if you were to go to a grammar school/private school. If you can ignore the crap you will do well.
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    I would say I am in a similar, from the sounds of things not quite as bad but nonetheless similar position to you

    However, I used to think the same as you, but one statement changed my mind I think ill let you mellow over it as well

    Do the healthy deserve better healthcare?
    But if your healthy then you don't need healthcare, right? :confused:

    I know this isn't what you meant but being facetious is fun!

    <3 x
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    (Original post by LETSJaM)
    But if your healthy then you don't need healthcare, right? :confused:

    I know this isn't what you meant but being facetious is fun!

    <3 x
    Exactly the point! So the less-able the student the more support they need.
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    Trust me, your state school career so to speak will give you many more life experiences than if you were to go to a grammar school/private school. If you can ignore the crap you will do well.
    But that is an awfully big if. And why not put yourself in a situation where you have the greatest chance of doing well.

    <3 x
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    (Original post by LETSJaM)
    But that is an awfully big if. And why not put yourself in a situation where you have the greatest chance of doing well.

    <3 x
    I'm in comp myself and I wouldn't have it any other way. If you find yourself in a work environment with distractions will you have past life experience to deal with them? I know I will
 
 
 
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